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CX2SA > SATDIG 11.12.17 02:02l 757 Lines 35214 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Behavior on FM Satellites (Jack Chomley)
2. Re: Behavior on FM Satellites (Mike Diehl)
3. Re: Behavior on FM Satellites (Matthew Stevens)
4. Re: Behavior on FM Satellites (Devin L. Ganger)
5. AMSAT Awards Update (Bruce)
6. Re: Behavior on FM Satellites (David Swanson)
7. Re: Behavior on FM Satellites (Daron Wilson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 08:05:45 +1000
From: Jack Chomley <vk4jrc@xxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Behavior on FM Satellites
Message-ID: <B461DEFA-4F98-4C89-8F35-C25B7E1B552C@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=cp932
Reminds me of Packet Wars, in the last millennium......
73,
Jack VK4JRC
Club. www.cqara.org.au
> On 11 Dec 2017, at 04:24, Mike Thompson <zryder94@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> I couldn?t have said it better myself, Paul. The behavior I have witnessed
> on AO-91 lately is about as far from examples of good operating practice as
> I can imagine. We can all do better.
> On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 12:06 PM Paul Stoetzer <n8hm@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>> Good afternoon,
>>
>> During the last AO-91 pass, there were many interesting stations on,
>> but in particular there were two low power rovers in rare grids: FG8OJ
>> was in FK95 and C6AWD/MM (AC0RA) was in FL25 (an entirely wet grid
>> that the ship will only be in for a short period of time).
>>
>> Yet, even while those two were in the footprint, stations were calling
>> other fixed stations that they can work on any pass of any satellite,
>> day or night. Right now, we have 14 satellites where you can make a
>> QSO with a guy next door. There's no need to work a hundred stations
>> on every pass of AO-91, especially when two guys in rare grids with
>> low power equipment are attempting to hand them out. It's all about
>> situational awareness. Pay attention to what grid ops are going to be
>> on a pass (monitoring Twitter, Facebook, and the BB prior to a pass
>> are handy for this), listen before you transmit, noting anything that
>> seems rare, and wait to make other QSOs until the rare stations are
>> out of the footprint. And please don't keep calling stations when they
>> are out of the footprint. Learn your geography and/or look at a map,
>> please!
>>
>> This is how I approached the pass: From monitoring Twitter, I was well
>> aware that there would be two rare rovers on (the two I mentioned
>> before). I did not need FG8OJ in FK95, so I did not call him. However,
>> FL25 is a hole in my map. When I heard C6AWD/MM in FL25, I made my
>> call, worked him, and then didn't attempt any more QSOs until he was
>> out of the footprint (this included not responding to a person that
>> called me).
>>
>> I know this is not the first time this topic has been raised, but
>> behavior has been especially terrible since the launch of AO-91.
>> Eventually, I and others will be forced to name and shame stations
>> engaged in poor behavior. FM satellites are wonderful in that the
>> simple, inexpensive equipment required to work them opens up the
>> amateur satellite hobby to a large number of people. However, since
>> they are a single channel covering a wide area, they also demand a
>> good amount of situational awareness and courtesy when operating.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Paul, N8HM
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 17:16:02 -0500
From: Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a@xxxxx.xxx>
To: "Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL" <vlfiscus@xxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Behavior on FM Satellites
Message-ID: <939949CD-974E-414E-AE00-19B701EAC7D9@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I agree. Let?s make sats as complex as possible to get into. That way we can
complain about real problems like lack of new blood instead.
73,
W8LID
> On Dec 10, 2017, at 16:58, Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL <vlfiscus@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>
> Funny,
> With years of continuous building of single channel
> satellites, I would have thought everyone would have
> gotten used to it by now.
>
> >ducking<
>
> KB7ADL
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 17:42:35 -0500
From: Matthew Stevens <matthew@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: Bernie and Cheryl <hamdan@xx.xxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Behavior on FM Satellites
Message-ID: <A424B265-A833-43CF-BD3D-A4C5D64ED9E8@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I share your sentiment last about, and have (I think) done as much as anyone
could to reach out to new sat ops, bringing new guys to this aspect of the
hobby. But, they aren?t the ones who have been causing such headaches on
AO-91 (and the other FM birds). The ones that Paul and others have talked
about ?calling out? are ops who have been around for a long time, many who
have made thousands and thousands of sat QSOs. Sadly, they are accomplishing
the opposite of what I and others have been trying to do as far as bringing
new guys to the sats.. I know at least one newer op who I?ve worked with,
who pretty much refuses to work FM sats because he doesn?t want to throw his
callsign out into the fray caused by inconsiderate operators.
In all but a few cases, the new ops I?ve worked with have been enthusiast,
eager to learn and willing to listen to advice from people who are skilled
at satellite operating. However, the more experienced ops that have been
causing so much trouble don?t do any of those things, even after numerous
polite emails etc. They will not make basic improvements to their station,
and don?t even exhibit the most basic good practice that applies to ANY
amateur operating - like listening before transmitting.
Social media isn?t required for people to use common sense while operating.
Just be polite, don?t tie up a pass. I can remember my first few SO-50
passes getting started on sats last year. I worked N6UA who was somewhere in
the middle of nowhere in Wyoming I think. I called him - because I had
listened to the pass (without transmitting) for a few minutes, and noticed a
lot of people calling him. I figured that was a good sign he was someone I
wanted to work even though I had no idea who or where he was! Contrast that
to certain stations in the Northeast US who, rather than listening first and
allowing the guy who is in a rare location make contacts, instead call
literally every person they hear on the pass - including if the person they
call was actually trying to call someone else!
Just some thoughts from a guy who was listening to the pass in question :-)
73,
- Matthew nj4y
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 10, 2017, at 16:27, Bernie and Cheryl <hamdan@xx.xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> Dear Folks:
>
> I certainly don't want to argue with the central premise, i.e., that when
there's a rare grid square, it is good operating practice to back off of the
bird and let everyone have a crack at working the "DX". Neither do I have a
problem with good operating practice dictating that people not hog the bird
(as has been described by Paul and other posters). I do have a problem with
public shaming, especially if not preceded with a congenial email suggesting
that the operator in question give people a chance. Most folks have their
email addresses on QRZ.com.
>
> The important thing to remember is that AMSAT hasn't published (to my
knowledge) a rule stating that /only/ certain types of QSO's can occur on
the FM satellites. I just looked at the website and there is a section
called "Working Your First Satellite" and I don't see anything on there like
that. The section on "Communications Satellites" has nothing like that
either. Unless the control operators of the satellite (e.g., AO-91) made a
decision in that vein, then the bird is open to all comers.
>
> Paul's post mentioned that the FM birds open up the hobby to a lot of
people. That means the FM birds are going to have new people on them, and I
think good operating practice indicates that people are welcomed on
satellites, and if they make a mistake, the "suggestion" to improve their
operating practice occurs in such a way that they aren't shamed, i.e., a
tasteful email or perhaps even a snail mail.
>
> His post also mentioned that he monitored Twitter and took some other
steps while preparing for the pass. I have to be honest and say I'm not a
big social media person. I only opened up a Facebook page last year, and
don't really know or care to know how to get on Twitter. Other than
checking when AOS occurs, I typically don't do that much preparation for a
pass. I don't think that disqualifies me from being able to operate on the
birds. Like I said above, I will back off if I'm aware that there's a rare
grid square on there, but I don't always know that's the case. All of us
are coming within the footprint of the bird at different times, and so the
newest person in the footprint won't always know what's happening at that
moment.
>
> I guess the reason why this thread affected me to the point that I felt
the need to reply is that I could see the situation degenerating very
quickly into a war between two classes of operators. And then, given the
nature of FM birds, it will be impossible for anyone to use them (it would
be relatively easy for one angry operator to jam the bird during a pass),
short of handing out CTSS tone codes to a select group. Until something
like that happens, the satellites are a shared resource, and we're always
going to be faced with folks who screw up unintentionally. I'd just hate to
see a flame war on the birds like we sometimes see on the internet.
>
> I'm not suggesting that satellite operating is "The Wild Wild West". I
think it's just a matter of education, and courtesy.
>
> Admittedly, I'm on the FM birds rarely (I've operated AO-91 exactly once).
I prefer the linear transponder satellites with their opportunity to have a
real conversation as opposed to shouting out grid squares, but recognize (as
Adrian points out in his post) that the setup for those birds requires more
infrastructure that may be beyond a lot of people. However, I've been
around a while (my first satellite QSO was on RS-10 back in 1994) and I
remember how excited I was when I made my first QSO's, and know how
devastated I would have been if someone called me out in a public forum
because I did something wrong that I didn't know was wrong.
>
> All I'm asking for is that all operators in good faith be granted a
modicum of courtesy, and we should be careful before deciding that someone
is acting in bad faith. I love this hobby and my heart aches at some of the
stuff I've heard on 75 meters, and on the local 2 meter repeaters. I'd
hate to see that transfer over to the satellite community, which by and
large, seems to be pretty professional.
>
> See you all on the birds. 73 de Bernie, KF0QS
>
>
> On 12/10/2017 11:35 AM, JoAnne Maenpaa wrote:
>>> There's no need to work a hundred stations on every pass of AO-91,
>>> especially when two guys in rare grids with low power equipment are
>>> attempting to hand them out. It's all about situational awareness.
>> I remember situations like this arising during AO-51 operation. Of
>> particular note beside working 100 stations on a 10 minute pass were those
>> fellows on AO-51 with enough aluminum and RF wattage to capture the AO-51
>> receiver then greet each other every morning like they hadn't spoken for 20
>> years. They would then give each other a weather report. This was followed
>> with a status of breakfast report. We often found out someone's dog needed
>> to step outside! Then the same 3 or 4 fellows would repeat this again on
the
>> next pass. They would begin with the missing-person from 20 years ago
>> greetings ... even though they had already greeted each other 90 minutes
>> ago.
>>
>> Other operators began note these boorish manners and after a while much of
>> that behavior was gradually moderated and mostly went away.
>>
>> --
>> 73 de JoAnne K9JKM
>> k9jkm@xxxxx.xxx
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 21:55:52 +0000
From: "Devin L. Ganger" <devin@xxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: Bernie and Cheryl <hamdan@xx.xxxxxx.xxx>, "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Behavior on FM Satellites
Message-ID:
<MWHPR0101MB31205615FC3825DA7482B31DCA360@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx.xx
x>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I've not yet gotten on the birds, so I am only an interested observer at
this point, but it seemed to me the original complaint (and reference to
public shaming) was regarding those rare people who treat the FM birds as
their own personal fiefdom on a ongoing basis.
I've not been a ham for a long time, but I know enough to know that sort of
behavior is not accidental. It is the result of a willful choice to remain
ignorant of good operational practice, or in knowing it, to not bother to
use it.
Newbies like me will make our mistakes. But most of us want to learn from
them and gladly accept feedback. We WANT to see things from another
perspective.
Observing (and occasionally poking our noses out to participate) in these
discussions is very educational, but occasionally frustrating because it
seems like there is a well-established consensus on how to share these
resources within the community, but occasionally we talk past each other on
deciding how to approach those who aren't playing as nicely.
Finally, one thought -- just as the DX world has trackers, has anyone at
AMSAT or anywhere else thought of putting up a website specifically for
satellite operators to notify others if they plan to activate a specific
grid or perform some other non-standard activity? Such a website could be
tied in with various social media channels to watch for specific
hashtags/keywords (so folks already posting have to make one tiny change)
and collate the information on the website, both in human-readable and
machine readable feeds (so, for example, a pass predictor app could consume
that feed and tell you "hey, WA7DLG is going to activate grid XXYZ on this
next pass")? Such a setup would take a little bit of work to put together,
but with some community user education, it could become a valuable resource
*in addition* to the existing methods folks are using. Knowledge is one of
the big pieces in combatting the "I didn't know" game and making it as easy
to get to, in as many methods as possible,
makes it more likely such a resource would be used.
I am certainly willing to volunteer time and resources to host and help
develop such a resource if anyone else is interested.
--
Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG)
email:?devin@xxxxxxxx.xxx
web:?Devin on Earth
cell:?+1 425.239.2575
-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On Behalf Of Bernie and
Cheryl
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 1:28 PM
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Behavior on FM Satellites
Dear Folks:
I certainly don't want to argue with the central premise, i.e., that when
there's a rare grid square, it is good operating practice to back off of the
bird and let everyone have a crack at working the "DX". Neither do I have a
problem with good operating practice dictating that people not hog the bird
(as has been described by Paul and other posters).? I do have a problem with
public shaming, especially if not preceded with a congenial email suggesting
that the operator in question give people a chance. Most folks have their
email addresses on QRZ.com.
The important thing to remember is that AMSAT hasn't published (to my
knowledge) a rule stating that /only/ certain types of QSO's can occur on
the FM satellites.? I just looked at the website and there is a section
called "Working Your First Satellite" and I don't see anything on there like
that.? The section on "Communications Satellites" has nothing like that
either.? Unless the control operators of the satellite (e.g., AO-91) made a
decision in that vein, then the bird is open to all comers.
Paul's post mentioned that the FM birds open up the hobby to a lot of
people.? That means the FM birds are going to have new people on them, and I
think good operating practice indicates that people are welcomed on
satellites, and if they make a mistake, the "suggestion" to improve their
operating practice occurs in such a way that they aren't shamed, i.e., a
tasteful email or perhaps even a snail mail.
His post also mentioned that he monitored Twitter and took some other steps
while preparing for the pass.? I have to be honest and say I'm not a big
social media person.? I only opened up a Facebook page last year, and don't
really know or care to know how to get on Twitter.? Other than checking when
AOS occurs, I typically don't do that much preparation for a pass.? I don't
think that disqualifies me from being able to operate on the birds.? Like I
said above, I will back off if I'm aware that there's a rare grid square on
there, but I don't always know that's the case.? All of us are coming within
the footprint of the bird at different times, and so the newest person in
the footprint won't always know what's happening at that moment.
I guess the reason why this thread affected me to the point that I felt the
need to reply is that I could see the situation degenerating very quickly
into a war between two classes of operators.? And then, given the nature of
FM birds, it will be impossible for anyone to use them (it would be
relatively easy for one angry operator to jam the bird during a pass), short
of handing out CTSS tone codes to a select group.? Until something like that
happens, the satellites are a shared resource, and we're always going to be
faced with folks who screw up unintentionally.
I'd just hate to see a flame war on the birds like we sometimes see on the
internet.
I'm not suggesting that satellite operating is "The Wild Wild West".? I
think it's just a matter of education, and courtesy.
Admittedly, I'm on the FM birds rarely (I've operated AO-91 exactly once).?
I prefer the linear transponder satellites with their opportunity to have a
real conversation as opposed to shouting out grid squares, but recognize (as
Adrian points out in his post) that the setup for those birds requires more
infrastructure that may be beyond a lot of people.? However, I've been
around a while (my first satellite QSO was on RS-10 back in 1994) and I
remember how excited I was when I made my first QSO's, and know how
devastated I would have been if someone called me out in a public forum
because I did something wrong that I didn't know was wrong.
All I'm asking for is that all operators in good faith be granted a modicum
of courtesy, and we should be careful before deciding that someone is acting
in bad faith.? I love this hobby and my heart aches at some of the stuff
I've heard on 75 meters, and on the local 2 meter repeaters. ? I'd hate to
see that transfer over to the satellite community, which by and large, seems
to be pretty professional.
See you all on the birds.? 73 de Bernie, KF0QS
On 12/10/2017 11:35 AM, JoAnne Maenpaa wrote:
>> There's no need to work a hundred stations on every pass of AO-91,
>> especially when two guys in rare grids with low power equipment are
>> attempting to hand them out. It's all about situational awareness.
> I remember situations like this arising during AO-51 operation. Of
> particular note beside working 100 stations on a 10 minute pass were
> those fellows on AO-51 with enough aluminum and RF wattage to capture
> the AO-51 receiver then greet each other every morning like they
> hadn't spoken for 20 years. They would then give each other a weather
> report. This was followed with a status of breakfast report. We often
> found out someone's dog needed to step outside! Then the same 3 or 4
> fellows would repeat this again on the next pass. They would begin
> with the missing-person from 20 years ago greetings ... even though
> they had already greeted each other 90 minutes ago.
>
> Other operators began note these boorish manners and after a while
> much of that behavior was gradually moderated and mostly went away.
>
> --
> 73 de JoAnne K9JKM
> k9jkm@xxxxx.xxx
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all
interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 17:28:28 -0600
From: Bruce <kk5do@xxxx.xxx>
To: "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Awards Update
Message-ID: <77b9eb78-2b8d-0f4e-5ec2-60b8bcd2618d@xxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
We have a good list of recipients this time for the AMSAT Awards. This
will also be the last update for 2017. With the new satellites this year
and a crop of new ones coming in 2018 there will be a lot of operating
going on.
AMSAT Satellite Communicators Award for making their first satellite QSO
Perikles Monioudis, HB9IQB
Tae-Ryon Kim, DS5DNO
Lawrence Witker, KE8BHX
Adam Zabrowski, W8OOO
Robert Twigg, KE8GDD
Dan Howard, VA3MA
------
AMSAT Communications Achievement Award
Ed Poccia, KC2LM, #579
------
AMSAT Sexagesimal Award
Adrian Liggins, VA3NNA, $180
Mac Cody, AE5PH, #181
------
AMSAT Century Club Award
George Carr, WA5KBH, #53
------
AMSAT Robert W. Barbee Jr., W4AMI Award
Carlo Morandi, IK4JQQ, #93
Mac Cody, AE5PH, #94
------
73...bruce
To see all the awards visit http://www.amsat.org or
http://www.amsatnet.com/awards.html
Bruce Paige, KK5DO
AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
ARRL Awards Field Checker (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0200z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
Also streaming MP3 at http://www.amsatnet.com
Podcast at http://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 17:46:22 -0600
From: David Swanson <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "<,amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxxxxxx <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Behavior on FM Satellites
Message-ID:
<CANq+eyVX1MQtQZ5pLQk7tqhyf3qUS1PaMrvCZfNNWeVH47ZrKg@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I want to further elaborate on Matt's point he just made. I'm very likely
the number one suspect when talk of 'calling out' people comes up - and I
fully admit to it as well. I am also quite often accused of 'noob bashing'
for the comments I've made on the BB and the different social media
platforms. With very few notable exceptions, the people I've called out
have been hams longer than I have been alive, let alone operating on
satellites. I've only had my ticket for 3 1/2 years, so by most accounts
I'm just as 'noob' as the folks that think they're under perceived attack
when the other 'class' of operators make comments about bad operating
etiquette.
So, let me just say this - as plainly as I can for everyone to see: New
operators are not the problem. A clear majority of the rovers are 'newer'
operators, both in AMSAT and in Ham in general. I was given my 488th CONUS
grid by a guy who is FM only, had been operating a few months, and was
working me from a rare grid *on an anniversary trip* with his wife. That is
the kind of dedication ONLY a die hard new guy will have. The new operators
are the ones that flock to social media for the latest gear reviews and
camaraderie with other ops. They're the ones asking about whether an arrow
or an elk is best, and what kind of radios to buy. They're the ones pushing
the vendors to build new stuff, and keeping the used market alive for
Satellite rigs. And they're the ones that are *really* active on the birds.
I would dare say the majority of the ops that I work on a regular basis
have been doing sats for less time than me, and that's great. I love it -
so much new blood is constantly changing things every day and that keeps it
exciting. New operators rock. I sincerely mean that.
On the flip side, you have a class of operator that "has been doing this
since sputnik" and thinks the current fleet of LEO's needs an AO-13 class
array to be successful. This class of op might also run 100W into an Omni,
cause that's the only way they can 'hear' their owns beeps coming down off
of AO-7, which they might have watched get launched, and will tell you
about when you send them an email asking why they're running so much
power. This class of op might also be amazed that they can actually hear
the newly launched AO-91 using their radio shack rg174 coax fed eggbeater,
and is excited to talk to the same neighbor day after day, because it's the
first bird since AO-51 they can brute force their way into with the power
that they're obligated to run since they've been a ham for 20 years. I have
yet to run into a new ham that has caused AO-7 to reset with an arrow and a
pair of Baofengs, yet I can name 5 old hams right off the top of my head
that do it pretty much consistently, in every year since I've been
operating. This kind of op is the problem. And I will not hesitate to
(continue) to call these kinds of bad apples out for their deliberate
interference with this hobby.
-Dave, KG5CCI
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 15:48:14 -0800
From: "Daron Wilson" <daron@xxxxxx.xxx>
To: "'Bernie and Cheryl'" <hamdan@xx.xxxxxx.xxx>, <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Behavior on FM Satellites
Message-ID: <015b01d37211$5999d2a0$0ccd77e0$@xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thanks Bernie,
I think you hit most of the highpoints. All operating is about courtesy, it
should be a highlight for us at all times. However please remember that
amateur radio operators are in the hobby for different reasons.
Some folks hang works of art and family photos on the wall, some folks like
certificates. Some folks like to have a conversation on the radio, some
folks prefer to exchange only callsign, grid and signal and do not wish to
talk further. Some folks might be very well technologically connected and
choose (or not) to use that connectivity for amateur radio planning, while
others may prefer to use amateur radio without being dependant on social
media. Some folks sit in a hamshack with multiple radios, computer access,
tracking systems and 'plan' their contacts based on a footprint...others
stand in the yard with a yagi and two handhelds and just work whomever comes
up.
I'm not a contester, but I sure like to pick up a new grid square and more
importantly as one who has roved and done satellite work, I like to share
them when I can be helpful. The satellites are a limited resource, we need
to take turns and let others in.
There have been west coast passes where I've listened to the downlink and
I'm the ONLY one on the pass. I've had passes where I could visit with
someone a few states away for most of the pass, stopping between comments to
ask if anyone else wants in. And I've had passes where I tried for 5
minutes and couldn't squeak my callsign in.
For the most part I think we're all willing to play nice, but certainly we
need a reminder and there is no doubt we need to continue educating people
how to use satellites.
73
Daron N7HQR CN74
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On Behalf Of Bernie
> and Cheryl
> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 3:27 PM
> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Behavior on FM Satellites
>
> Dear Folks:
>
> I certainly don't want to argue with the central premise, i.e., that
> when there's a rare grid square, it is good operating practice to back
> off of the bird and let everyone have a crack at working the "DX".
> Neither do I have a problem with good operating practice dictating
> that people not hog the bird (as has been described by Paul and other
> posters). I do have a problem with public shaming, especially if not
> preceded with a congenial email suggesting that the operator in
> question give people a chance. Most folks have their email addresses on
QRZ.com.
>
> The important thing to remember is that AMSAT hasn't published (to my
> knowledge) a rule stating that /only/ certain types of QSO's can occur
> on the FM satellites. I just looked at the website and there is a
> section called "Working Your First Satellite" and I don't see anything
> on there like that. The section on "Communications Satellites" has
> nothing like that either. Unless the control operators of the
> satellite (e.g., AO-91) made a decision in that vein, then the bird is
> open to all comers.
>
> Paul's post mentioned that the FM birds open up the hobby to a lot of
> people. That means the FM birds are going to have new people on them,
> and I think good operating practice indicates that people are welcomed
> on satellites, and if they make a mistake, the "suggestion" to improve
> their operating practice occurs in such a way that they aren't shamed,
> i.e., a tasteful email or perhaps even a snail mail.
>
> His post also mentioned that he monitored Twitter and took some other
> steps while preparing for the pass. I have to be honest and say I'm
> not a big social media person. I only opened up a Facebook page last
> year, and don't really know or care to know how to get on Twitter.
> Other than checking when AOS occurs, I typically don't do that much
> preparation for a pass. I don't think that disqualifies me from being
> able to operate on the birds. Like I said above, I will back off if
> I'm aware that there's a rare grid square on there, but I don't always
> know that's the case. All of us are coming within the footprint of
> the bird at different times, and so the newest person in the footprint
> won't always know what's happening at that moment.
>
> I guess the reason why this thread affected me to the point that I
> felt the need to reply is that I could see the situation degenerating
> very quickly into a war between two classes of operators. And then,
> given the nature of FM birds, it will be impossible for anyone to use
> them (it would be relatively easy for one angry operator to jam the
> bird during a pass), short of handing out CTSS tone codes to a select
> group. Until something like that happens, the satellites are a shared
> resource, and we're always going to be faced with folks who screw up
unintentionally.
> I'd just hate to see a flame war on the birds like we sometimes see on
> the internet.
>
> I'm not suggesting that satellite operating is "The Wild Wild West".
> I think it's just a matter of education, and courtesy.
>
> Admittedly, I'm on the FM birds rarely (I've operated AO-91 exactly
> once). I prefer the linear transponder satellites with their
> opportunity to have a real conversation as opposed to shouting out
> grid squares, but recognize (as Adrian points out in his post) that
> the setup for those birds requires more infrastructure that may be
> beyond a lot of people. However, I've been around a while (my first
> satellite QSO was on RS-10 back in 1994) and I remember how excited I
> was when I made my first QSO's, and know how devastated I would have
> been if someone called me out in a public forum because I did
> something wrong that I didn't know was wrong.
>
> All I'm asking for is that all operators in good faith be granted a
> modicum of courtesy, and we should be careful before deciding that
> someone is acting in bad faith. I love this hobby and my heart aches
> at some of the stuff I've heard on 75 meters, and on the local 2 meter
> repeaters. I'd hate to see that transfer over to the satellite
> community, which by and large, seems to be pretty professional.
>
> See you all on the birds. 73 de Bernie, KF0QS
>
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End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 12, Issue 326
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