| |
CX2SA > SATDIG 13.12.17 23:56l 1213 Lines 40192 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : AMSATBB12335
Read: GUEST
Subj: AMSAT-BB-digest V12 335
Path: IW8PGT<IR2UBX<DB0RES<DB0EEO<DB0GOS<ON0AR<OZ5BBS<CX2SA
Sent: 171213/2148Z @:CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM #:29404 [Salto] FBB7.00e $:AMSATBB12335
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for Beginning and
Experienced Operators (kg5jup)
2. Re: FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for Beginning and
Experienced Operators (Paul Stoetzer)
3. Re: FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for Beginning and
Experienced Operators (kg5jup)
4. Re: FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for Beginning and
Experienced Operators (R.T.Liddy)
5. Re: FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for Beginning and
Experienced Operators (kg5jup)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:10:01 -0600
From: kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
Message-ID: <5a31972d.1b8e190a.32365.436b@xx.xxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Really what you are saying is the DXers count.? I abhore clickes especially
those driven by adolensce mentalities.??
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a@xxxxx.xxx>
Date: 12/13/17 14:49 (GMT-06:00) To: kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> Cc:
"R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Subject: Re:
[amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for Beginning and
Experienced Operators
That?s the thing about best practices when applied to just about anything,
it?s something rarely voted on. Instead, best practices tend to come from
empirical evidence.
Sean has proven himself to be successful on sats. Like others have pointed
out, I?ve worked him as both sides of the DX. His methods described are
proven and isn?t a matter of opinion. When it comes down to things such as
operating best practices then the less opinions (votes) the better because
most aren?t qualified.
Sean presented a guide and those that we elected at AMSAT thought it was
well worth posting. We should be glad they didn?t wait around to get every
unqualified opinion on the matter.
73,
Mike Diehl
W8LID
> On Dec 13, 2017, at 15:11, kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> Hello there!? I am one of the ones you speak of and my only issue was how
the suvesstions were presented and that someone can just post to AMSAT site
with out a vote or discussion.?
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
> -------- Original message --------From: "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Date: 12/13/17? 12:20? (GMT-06:00) To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
>? Beginning and Experienced Operators
> Dave,
>
> Thanks for the good words about the reality of SAT operations.
>
> Apparently, some people do not appreciate DX and/or Roving
> or Gridding QSOs on our Satellites. They don't realize or care
> that there is a LOT of time and expense involved with providing
> these contacts for other SAT users from rare locations.
>
> Amazingly, it seems that some of the vocal folks are objecting
> to being reminded to use courtesy when the resources are busy
> with highly sought stations. There are very many SAT passes that
> are not busy at all. Is it that inconvenient to use those passes?
>
> Even more amazing is that it has been pointed out that some of
> the objectors haven't been actual users of the Satellites. One would
> wonder why they are voicing objections in the first place.
>
> Our hobby often has a problem getting folks to volunteer to do
> some of the needed tasks that we all would benefit from. Then, when
> someone steps forward to help with a needed task (writing an Operating
> Practice) there are folks that do nothing but complain about what that
> volunteer actually does! Go figure!!!
>
> 73 & Merry Christmas to ALL!!!? de Bob K8BL? (AMSAT #6593)
>
> ________________________________
> From: David Swanson <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
>
>
>
> Christopher,
>
>
> I ask you the same question I asked another earlier in this thread: Do you
>
> actually operate on the Amateur Satellites? I have checked my logs, and I
>
> don't see you in them with your KG5JUP or your AA5EM call sign. Not saying
>
> it's possible I could have missed you, but 5000 logged AMSAT QSOs since
>
> 2014 and you're not in them makes a fairly compelling case. Sean is not
>
> trying pass a law by tyrannical decree here, he is an active operator who
>
> has made a lot of contacts and been on both the chasing side and the DX
>
> side of the QSO. He made a list of suggested guidelines based on his (and
>
> other active ops) experiences, and he did a bang up job with it too.? If
>
> that rustles your jimmies too much, then maybe you should re-evaluate what
>
> you're expecting by belonging to an organization like AMSAT.
>
>
> Also - for those that have been around since before AO-91 - please go back
>
> and reference the K0D operation I did with AC0RA last month. We activated
>
> 20 rares grids thru the Western Dakotas in 3 days. We only got on 3 FM
>
> passes the entire trip. I got a lot of flack from FM only operators for
>
> avoiding the repeater birds - but this thread is proof positive of exactly
>
> why we did it that way. If folks get upset over asking for some courtesy
>
> towards the rovers out there busting their tail off, that's fine. I for one
>
> am done chasing grids now that I've got my 488 confirmed - and plan to put
>
> some serious effort into roving the next few years. I'm happy to stick to
>
> the linear birds only when on the road, if treating AO91 "like the extra
>
> class" causes people to go to their safe spaces.
>
>
> -Dave, KG5CCI
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
>
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 6:45 AM, kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>
>
>> I am a little disturbed that these ideas were just published no vote not
>
>> input.? I am a paying member I had no input.? Honest feel like a handful of
>
>> individuals who want to treat the birds like the extra class band when
>
>> convent and whine when they don't get their way.
>
>
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------
>
>> -------- Original message --------From: "Sean K. via AMSAT-BB" <
>
>> amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Date: 12/12/17? 21:48? (GMT-06:00) To: Sean Waite <
>
>> waisean@xxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb]
>
>> FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
>
>>?? Beginning and Experienced Operators
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 16:11:13 -0500
From: Paul Stoetzer <n8hm@xxxx.xxx>
To: Matthew Stevens <matthew@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
Message-ID:
<CABzOSOqRyYHT55P46=6B1icUtMCzzr7U-JX8H=yD+D2U-59DZQ@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Correct. In the wake of the growing controversy over the crowded
conditions on AO-91, Sean approached AMSAT with an article that he had
wrote and it was published on the website. I don't believe it conveys
or implies that it's conveying any sort of official guidelines. After
all, AMSAT doesn't own every single channel satellite in orbit! It's
just a document that explains some best practices for how to operate
successfully on an FM satellite.
The bottom line is that the satellites are available for all amateurs
for both recreation and experimentation. If everyone operates with
courtesy, we can all successfully share these wonderful resources we
have in orbit.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 4:05 PM, Matthew Stevens <matthew@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
wrote:
> Err... huh? What does any of this have to do with an unofficial operators
guide created by an active operator and Amsat member? Amsat didn?t create
the guide. They just thought it good enough to share on the website, as many
other member-generated articles have been for years. No one has to vote on
what in the end is someone?s opinion! If anything, what Sean did by sharing
here on the BB for peer review and suggestions seems like exactly what
you?re asking for..
>
> And, as you see from all but a few of the responses, virtually every
active operator concurs with his suggested guidelines! This type of thing is
best created by someone who has experience in the topic... and Sean does. I
personally think he did a great job, and addressed some things that no one
really has in writing for a number of years. It?s always great to see a
fellow member contributing to everyone?s enjoyment of amateur satellites,
instead of just endlessly talking about ?some day someone ought to do
something.?
>
> 73,
>
> - Matthew nj4y
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 13, 2017, at 15:45, kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>>
>> My presence or non presence on the birdies makes no difference. I am a
paying member of AMSAT and I hold a ham license (like all of you) therefore
my input SHOULD be of value. I am sorry I have disrupted the status quo and
enraged the Satellite illuminati. I am going office until such time as I
have been sent an RSVP to adult table. Yes my response is almost as
childish and absurd what prompted it.
>>
>>
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>> -------- Original message --------From: "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Date: 12/13/17 12:20 (GMT-06:00) To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
>> Beginning and Experienced Operators
>> Dave,
>>
>> Thanks for the good words about the reality of SAT operations.
>>
>> Apparently, some people do not appreciate DX and/or Roving
>> or Gridding QSOs on our Satellites. They don't realize or care
>> that there is a LOT of time and expense involved with providing
>> these contacts for other SAT users from rare locations.
>>
>> Amazingly, it seems that some of the vocal folks are objecting
>> to being reminded to use courtesy when the resources are busy
>> with highly sought stations. There are very many SAT passes that
>> are not busy at all. Is it that inconvenient to use those passes?
>>
>> Even more amazing is that it has been pointed out that some of
>> the objectors haven't been actual users of the Satellites. One would
>> wonder why they are voicing objections in the first place.
>>
>> Our hobby often has a problem getting folks to volunteer to do
>> some of the needed tasks that we all would benefit from. Then, when
>> someone steps forward to help with a needed task (writing an Operating
>> Practice) there are folks that do nothing but complain about what that
>> volunteer actually does! Go figure!!!
>>
>> 73 & Merry Christmas to ALL!!! de Bob K8BL (AMSAT #6593)
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: David Swanson <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
>> To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
>>
>>
>>
>> Christopher,
>>
>>
>> I ask you the same question I asked another earlier in this thread: Do you
>>
>> actually operate on the Amateur Satellites? I have checked my logs, and I
>>
>> don't see you in them with your KG5JUP or your AA5EM call sign. Not saying
>>
>> it's possible I could have missed you, but 5000 logged AMSAT QSOs since
>>
>> 2014 and you're not in them makes a fairly compelling case. Sean is not
>>
>> trying pass a law by tyrannical decree here, he is an active operator who
>>
>> has made a lot of contacts and been on both the chasing side and the DX
>>
>> side of the QSO. He made a list of suggested guidelines based on his (and
>>
>> other active ops) experiences, and he did a bang up job with it too. If
>>
>> that rustles your jimmies too much, then maybe you should re-evaluate what
>>
>> you're expecting by belonging to an organization like AMSAT.
>>
>>
>> Also - for those that have been around since before AO-91 - please go back
>>
>> and reference the K0D operation I did with AC0RA last month. We activated
>>
>> 20 rares grids thru the Western Dakotas in 3 days. We only got on 3 FM
>>
>> passes the entire trip. I got a lot of flack from FM only operators for
>>
>> avoiding the repeater birds - but this thread is proof positive of exactly
>>
>> why we did it that way. If folks get upset over asking for some courtesy
>>
>> towards the rovers out there busting their tail off, that's fine. I for one
>>
>> am done chasing grids now that I've got my 488 confirmed - and plan to put
>>
>> some serious effort into roving the next few years. I'm happy to stick to
>>
>> the linear birds only when on the road, if treating AO91 "like the extra
>>
>> class" causes people to go to their safe spaces.
>>
>>
>> -Dave, KG5CCI
>>
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 6:45 AM, kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> I am a little disturbed that these ideas were just published no vote not
>>
>>> input. I am a paying member I had no input. Honest feel like a handful
of
>>
>>> individuals who want to treat the birds like the extra class band when
>>
>>> convent and whine when they don't get their way.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------
>>
>>> -------- Original message --------From: "Sean K. via AMSAT-BB" <
>>
>>> amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Date: 12/12/17 21:48 (GMT-06:00) To: Sean Waite <
>>
>>> waisean@xxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb]
>>
>>> FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
>>
>>> Beginning and Experienced Operators
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:11:55 -0600
From: kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Matthew Stevens <matthew@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
Message-ID: <5a31979f.1b8e190a.32365.437a@xx.xxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
There's the answer I sought AMSAT felt it belonged online and I agree.??
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Matthew Stevens
<matthew@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> Date: 12/13/17 15:05 (GMT-06:00) To: kg5jup
<kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> Cc: "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT BB
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating
Practices for Beginning and Experienced Operators
Err... huh? What does any of this have to do with an unofficial operators
guide created by an active operator and Amsat member? Amsat didn?t create
the guide. They just thought it good enough to share on the website, as many
other member-generated articles have been for years. No one has to vote on
what in the end is someone?s opinion! If anything, what Sean did by sharing
here on the BB for peer review and suggestions seems like exactly what
you?re asking for..
And, as you see from all but a few of the responses, virtually every active
operator concurs with his suggested guidelines! This type of thing is best
created by someone who has experience in the topic... and Sean does. I
personally think he did a great job, and addressed some things that no one
really has in writing for a number of years. It?s always great to see a
fellow member contributing to everyone?s enjoyment of amateur satellites,
instead of just endlessly talking about ?some day someone ought to do
something.?
73,
- Matthew nj4y
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 13, 2017, at 15:45, kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> My presence or non presence on the birdies makes no difference.? I am a
paying member of AMSAT and I hold a ham license (like all of you) therefore
my input SHOULD be of value.? I am sorry I have disrupted the status quo and
enraged the Satellite illuminati.? I am going office until such time as I
have been sent an RSVP to adult table.?? Yes my response is almost as
childish and absurd what prompted it.
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
> -------- Original message --------From: "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Date: 12/13/17? 12:20? (GMT-06:00) To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
>?? Beginning and Experienced Operators
> Dave,
>
> Thanks for the good words about the reality of SAT operations.
>
> Apparently, some people do not appreciate DX and/or Roving
> or Gridding QSOs on our Satellites. They don't realize or care
> that there is a LOT of time and expense involved with providing
> these contacts for other SAT users from rare locations.
>
> Amazingly, it seems that some of the vocal folks are objecting
> to being reminded to use courtesy when the resources are busy
> with highly sought stations. There are very many SAT passes that
> are not busy at all. Is it that inconvenient to use those passes?
>
> Even more amazing is that it has been pointed out that some of
> the objectors haven't been actual users of the Satellites. One would
> wonder why they are voicing objections in the first place.
>
> Our hobby often has a problem getting folks to volunteer to do
> some of the needed tasks that we all would benefit from. Then, when
> someone steps forward to help with a needed task (writing an Operating
> Practice) there are folks that do nothing but complain about what that
> volunteer actually does! Go figure!!!
>
> 73 & Merry Christmas to ALL!!!? de Bob K8BL? (AMSAT #6593)
>
> ________________________________
> From: David Swanson <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
>
>
>
> Christopher,
>
>
> I ask you the same question I asked another earlier in this thread: Do you
>
> actually operate on the Amateur Satellites? I have checked my logs, and I
>
> don't see you in them with your KG5JUP or your AA5EM call sign. Not saying
>
> it's possible I could have missed you, but 5000 logged AMSAT QSOs since
>
> 2014 and you're not in them makes a fairly compelling case. Sean is not
>
> trying pass a law by tyrannical decree here, he is an active operator who
>
> has made a lot of contacts and been on both the chasing side and the DX
>
> side of the QSO. He made a list of suggested guidelines based on his (and
>
> other active ops) experiences, and he did a bang up job with it too.? If
>
> that rustles your jimmies too much, then maybe you should re-evaluate what
>
> you're expecting by belonging to an organization like AMSAT.
>
>
> Also - for those that have been around since before AO-91 - please go back
>
> and reference the K0D operation I did with AC0RA last month. We activated
>
> 20 rares grids thru the Western Dakotas in 3 days. We only got on 3 FM
>
> passes the entire trip. I got a lot of flack from FM only operators for
>
> avoiding the repeater birds - but this thread is proof positive of exactly
>
> why we did it that way. If folks get upset over asking for some courtesy
>
> towards the rovers out there busting their tail off, that's fine. I for one
>
> am done chasing grids now that I've got my 488 confirmed - and plan to put
>
> some serious effort into roving the next few years. I'm happy to stick to
>
> the linear birds only when on the road, if treating AO91 "like the extra
>
> class" causes people to go to their safe spaces.
>
>
> -Dave, KG5CCI
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
>
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 6:45 AM, kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>
>>
>
>> I am a little disturbed that these ideas were just published no vote not
>
>> input.? I am a paying member I had no input.? Honest feel like a handful of
>
>> individuals who want to treat the birds like the extra class band when
>
>> convent and whine when they don't get their way.
>
>>
>
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------
>
>> -------- Original message --------From: "Sean K. via AMSAT-BB" <
>
>> amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Date: 12/12/17? 21:48? (GMT-06:00) To: Sean Waite <
>
>> waisean@xxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb]
>
>> FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
>
>>??? Beginning and Experienced Operators
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 21:30:12 +0000 (UTC)
From: "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
Message-ID: <894657015.4959096.1513200612540@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
KG5JUP,
The AMSAT BB is open to all & no membership/dues required.
Anyone can comment on whatever is posted on it, which you did.
Someone volunteered their time to summarize what many folks feel
are good operating procedures. Without guidelines, there would
continue to be the chaos on the FM Satellites that has been seen.
New people should appreciate having guidance on how to operate
on a shared resource. Otherwise, they merely contribute to the chaos.
FYI, there is no voting on a volunteered set of guidelines. You either
follow them or you don't. They aren't Rules.
You could have suggested a rewording of portions of the guidelines
and asked for discussion and a reissue. Instead, you inferred that the
SATs are being controlled by only certain individuals and they are
whiners.
Now, why don't you tell the users here what you feel should be different
in those guidelines based on your experience and observations. Then,
people can comment on the pros and cons of your ideas. Perhaps, the
guidelines can be improved.
TNX/73, Bob K8BL
P.S. Please sign your posts with your Name/Call so we know who you are.
________________________________
From: kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx>
To: R.T.Liddy <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>; AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
Hello there! I am one of the ones you speak of and my only issue was how
the suvesstions were presented and that someone can just post to AMSAT site
with out a vote or discussion.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Date: 12/13/17 12:20 (GMT-06:00)
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
Dave,
Thanks for the good words about the reality of SAT operations.
Apparently, some people do not appreciate DX and/or Roving
or Gridding QSOs on our Satellites. They don't realize or care
that there is a LOT of time and expense involved with providing
these contacts for other SAT users from rare locations.
Amazingly, it seems that some of the vocal folks are objecting
to being reminded to use courtesy when the resources are busy
with highly sought stations. There are very many SAT passes that
are not busy at all. Is it that inconvenient to use those passes?
Even more amazing is that it has been pointed out that some of
the objectors haven't been actual users of the Satellites. One would
wonder why they are voicing objections in the first place.
Our hobby often has a problem getting folks to volunteer to do
some of the needed tasks that we all would benefit from. Then, when
someone steps forward to help with a needed task (writing an Operating
Practice) there are folks that do nothing but complain about what that
volunteer actually does! Go figure!!!
73 & Merry Christmas to ALL!!! de Bob K8BL (AMSAT #6593)
________________________________
From: David Swanson <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
Christopher,
I ask you the same question I asked another earlier in this thread: Do you
actually operate on the Amateur Satellites? I have checked my logs, and I
don't see you in them with your KG5JUP or your AA5EM call sign. Not saying
it's possible I could have missed you, but 5000 logged AMSAT QSOs since
2014 and you're not in them makes a fairly compelling case. Sean is not
trying pass a law by tyrannical decree here, he is an active operator who
has made a lot of contacts and been on both the chasing side and the DX
side of the QSO. He made a list of suggested guidelines based on his (and
other active ops) experiences, and he did a bang up job with it too. If
that rustles your jimmies too much, then maybe you should re-evaluate what
you're expecting by belonging to an organization like AMSAT.
Also - for those that have been around since before AO-91 - please go back
and reference the K0D operation I did with AC0RA last month. We activated
20 rares grids thru the Western Dakotas in 3 days. We only got on 3 FM
passes the entire trip. I got a lot of flack from FM only operators for
avoiding the repeater birds - but this thread is proof positive of exactly
why we did it that way. If folks get upset over asking for some courtesy
towards the rovers out there busting their tail off, that's fine. I for one
am done chasing grids now that I've got my 488 confirmed - and plan to put
some serious effort into roving the next few years. I'm happy to stick to
the linear birds only when on the road, if treating AO91 "like the extra
class" causes people to go to their safe spaces.
-Dave, KG5CCI
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 6:45 AM, kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> I am a little disturbed that these ideas were just published no vote not
> input. I am a paying member I had no input. Honest feel like a handful of
> individuals who want to treat the birds like the extra class band when
> convent and whine when they don't get their way.
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------
> -------- Original message --------From: "Sean K. via AMSAT-BB" <
> amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Date: 12/12/17 21:48 (GMT-06:00) To: Sean Waite <
> waisean@xxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb]
> FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
> Beginning and Experienced Operators
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:34:12 -0600
From: kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Gabriel Zeifman <gabrielzeifman@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT Mailing List <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
Message-ID: <5a319cd8.43542e0a.7df99.3918@xx.xxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I am too tall to be a troll.? This has however gotten out of hand a long
time ago.? Sean great work on the suggestions for good practices they are
super helpful for a new operator like myself.??
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Gabriel Zeifman
<gabrielzeifman@xxxxx.xxx> Date: 12/13/17 15:26 (GMT-06:00) To: kg5jup
<kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> Cc: Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a@xxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT Mailing
List <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good
Operating Practices for Beginning and Experienced Operators
Then go back to HF or repeaters or whatever and stop trolling us. Getting
tired of getting these stupid emails from you fighting with everyone over
petty nonsense, enjoy the satellites and hobby however you damn well please
and feel free to ignore any advice.
73,GabeAL6D/VE6NJH
On Dec 13, 2017 12:23 PM, "kg5jup" <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
Really what you are saying is the DXers count.? I abhore clickes especially
those driven by adolensce mentalities.??
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a@xxxxx.xxx>
Date: 12/13/17? 14:49? (GMT-06:00) To: kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> Cc:
"R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Subject: Re:
[amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for Beginning and
Experienced Operators
That?s the thing about best practices when applied to just about anything,
it?s something rarely voted on. Instead, best practices tend to come from
empirical evidence.
Sean has proven himself to be successful on sats. Like others have pointed
out, I?ve worked him as both sides of the DX. His methods described are
proven and isn?t a matter of opinion. When it comes down to things such as
operating best practices then the less opinions (votes) the better because
most aren?t qualified.
Sean presented a guide and those that we elected at AMSAT thought it was
well worth posting. We should be glad they didn?t wait around to get every
unqualified opinion on the matter.
73,
Mike Diehl
W8LID
> On Dec 13, 2017, at 15:11, kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> Hello there!? I am one of the ones you speak of and my only issue was how
the suvesstions were presented and that someone can just post to AMSAT site
with out a vote or discussion.?
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
> -------- Original message --------From: "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Date: 12/13/17? 12:20? (GMT-06:00) To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
>? Beginning and Experienced Operators
> Dave,
>
> Thanks for the good words about the reality of SAT operations.
>
> Apparently, some people do not appreciate DX and/or Roving
> or Gridding QSOs on our Satellites. They don't realize or care
> that there is a LOT of time and expense involved with providing
> these contacts for other SAT users from rare locations.
>
> Amazingly, it seems that some of the vocal folks are objecting
> to being reminded to use courtesy when the resources are busy
> with highly sought stations. There are very many SAT passes that
> are not busy at all. Is it that inconvenient to use those passes?
>
> Even more amazing is that it has been pointed out that some of
> the objectors haven't been actual users of the Satellites. One would
> wonder why they are voicing objections in the first place.
>
> Our hobby often has a problem getting folks to volunteer to do
> some of the needed tasks that we all would benefit from. Then, when
> someone steps forward to help with a needed task (writing an Operating
> Practice) there are folks that do nothing but complain about what that
> volunteer actually does! Go figure!!!
>
> 73 & Merry Christmas to ALL!!!? de Bob K8BL? (AMSAT #6593)
>
> ________________________________
> From: David Swanson <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
>
>
>
> Christopher,
>
>
> I ask you the same question I asked another earlier in this thread: Do you
>
> actually operate on the Amateur Satellites? I have checked my logs, and I
>
> don't see you in them with your KG5JUP or your AA5EM call sign. Not saying
>
> it's possible I could have missed you, but 5000 logged AMSAT QSOs since
>
> 2014 and you're not in them makes a fairly compelling case. Sean is not
>
> trying pass a law by tyrannical decree here, he is an active operator who
>
> has made a lot of contacts and been on both the chasing side and the DX
>
> side of the QSO. He made a list of suggested guidelines based on his (and
>
> other active ops) experiences, and he did a bang up job with it too.? If
>
> that rustles your jimmies too much, then maybe you should re-evaluate what
>
> you're expecting by belonging to an organization like AMSAT.
>
>
> Also - for those that have been around since before AO-91 - please go back
>
> and reference the K0D operation I did with AC0RA last month. We activated
>
> 20 rares grids thru the Western Dakotas in 3 days. We only got on 3 FM
>
> passes the entire trip. I got a lot of flack from FM only operators for
>
> avoiding the repeater birds - but this thread is proof positive of exactly
>
> why we did it that way. If folks get upset over asking for some courtesy
>
> towards the rovers out there busting their tail off, that's fine. I for one
>
> am done chasing grids now that I've got my 488 confirmed - and plan to put
>
> some serious effort into roving the next few years. I'm happy to stick to
>
> the linear birds only when on the road, if treating AO91 "like the extra
>
> class" causes people to go to their safe spaces.
>
>
> -Dave, KG5CCI
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
>
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 6:45 AM, kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>
>
>> I am a little disturbed that these ideas were just published no vote not
>
>> input.? I am a paying member I had no input.? Honest feel like a handful of
>
>> individuals who want to treat the birds like the extra class band when
>
>> convent and whine when they don't get their way.
>
>
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------
>
>> -------- Original message --------From: "Sean K. via AMSAT-BB" <
>
>> amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Date: 12/12/17? 21:48? (GMT-06:00) To: Sean Waite <
>
>> waisean@xxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb]
>
>> FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
>
>>?? Beginning and Experienced Operators
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 12, Issue 335
*****************************************
Read previous mail | Read next mail
| |
