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CX2SA > SATDIG 14.12.17 01:45l 1147 Lines 41940 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Sent: 171213/2335Z @:CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM #:29407 [Salto] FBB7.00e $:AMSATBB12336
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for Beginning and
Experienced Operators (Gabriel Zeifman)
2. Re: FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for Beginning and
Experienced Operators (Greg)
3. Re: FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for Beginning and
Experienced Operators (kb2mjeff@xxx.xxxx
4. Re: FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for Beginning and
Experienced Operators (Bill Dillon)
5. Operating suggestions (Chris Bradley)
6. Re: FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for Beginning and
Experienced Operators (KA9QJG)
7. Re: FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for Beginning and
Experienced Operators (Jerry Buxton)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 12:26:36 -0900
From: Gabriel Zeifman <gabrielzeifman@xxxxx.xxx>
To: kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT Mailing List <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
Message-ID:
<CAEGYLCud5k12Ei9U9OQRu+kyRy4Z_XE84tgg-KhZwO+Hzus=_A@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Then go back to HF or repeaters or whatever and stop trolling us. Getting
tired of getting these stupid emails from you fighting with everyone over
petty nonsense, enjoy the satellites and hobby however you damn well please
and feel free to ignore any advice.
73,
Gabe
AL6D/VE6NJH
On Dec 13, 2017 12:23 PM, "kg5jup" <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Really what you are saying is the DXers count. I abhore clickes
> especially those driven by adolensce mentalities.
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
> -------- Original message --------From: Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a@xxxxx.xxx>
> Date: 12/13/17 14:49 (GMT-06:00) To: kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> Cc:
> "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Subject:
> Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for Beginning and
> Experienced Operators
> That?s the thing about best practices when applied to just about anything,
> it?s something rarely voted on. Instead, best practices tend to come from
> empirical evidence.
>
> Sean has proven himself to be successful on sats. Like others have pointed
> out, I?ve worked him as both sides of the DX. His methods described are
> proven and isn?t a matter of opinion. When it comes down to things such as
> operating best practices then the less opinions (votes) the better because
> most aren?t qualified.
>
>
> Sean presented a guide and those that we elected at AMSAT thought it was
> well worth posting. We should be glad they didn?t wait around to get every
> unqualified opinion on the matter.
>
> 73,
> Mike Diehl
> W8LID
>
> > On Dec 13, 2017, at 15:11, kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> >
> > Hello there! I am one of the ones you speak of and my only issue was
> how the suvesstions were presented and that someone can just post to AMSAT
> site with out a vote or discussion.
> >
> >
> > Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
> > -------- Original message --------From: "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Date: 12/13/17 12:20 (GMT-06:00) To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
> > Beginning and Experienced Operators
> > Dave,
> >
> > Thanks for the good words about the reality of SAT operations.
> >
> > Apparently, some people do not appreciate DX and/or Roving
> > or Gridding QSOs on our Satellites. They don't realize or care
> > that there is a LOT of time and expense involved with providing
> > these contacts for other SAT users from rare locations.
> >
> > Amazingly, it seems that some of the vocal folks are objecting
> > to being reminded to use courtesy when the resources are busy
> > with highly sought stations. There are very many SAT passes that
> > are not busy at all. Is it that inconvenient to use those passes?
> >
> > Even more amazing is that it has been pointed out that some of
> > the objectors haven't been actual users of the Satellites. One would
> > wonder why they are voicing objections in the first place.
> >
> > Our hobby often has a problem getting folks to volunteer to do
> > some of the needed tasks that we all would benefit from. Then, when
> > someone steps forward to help with a needed task (writing an Operating
> > Practice) there are folks that do nothing but complain about what that
> > volunteer actually does! Go figure!!!
> >
> > 73 & Merry Christmas to ALL!!! de Bob K8BL (AMSAT #6593)
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: David Swanson <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> > To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:08 PM
> > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
> Beginning and Experienced Operators
> >
> >
> >
> > Christopher,
> >
> >
> > I ask you the same question I asked another earlier in this thread: Do
> you
> >
> > actually operate on the Amateur Satellites? I have checked my logs, and I
> >
> > don't see you in them with your KG5JUP or your AA5EM call sign. Not
> saying
> >
> > it's possible I could have missed you, but 5000 logged AMSAT QSOs since
> >
> > 2014 and you're not in them makes a fairly compelling case. Sean is not
> >
> > trying pass a law by tyrannical decree here, he is an active operator who
> >
> > has made a lot of contacts and been on both the chasing side and the DX
> >
> > side of the QSO. He made a list of suggested guidelines based on his (and
> >
> > other active ops) experiences, and he did a bang up job with it too. If
> >
> > that rustles your jimmies too much, then maybe you should re-evaluate
> what
> >
> > you're expecting by belonging to an organization like AMSAT.
> >
> >
> > Also - for those that have been around since before AO-91 - please go
> back
> >
> > and reference the K0D operation I did with AC0RA last month. We activated
> >
> > 20 rares grids thru the Western Dakotas in 3 days. We only got on 3 FM
> >
> > passes the entire trip. I got a lot of flack from FM only operators for
> >
> > avoiding the repeater birds - but this thread is proof positive of
> exactly
> >
> > why we did it that way. If folks get upset over asking for some courtesy
> >
> > towards the rovers out there busting their tail off, that's fine. I for
> one
> >
> > am done chasing grids now that I've got my 488 confirmed - and plan to
> put
> >
> > some serious effort into roving the next few years. I'm happy to stick to
> >
> > the linear birds only when on the road, if treating AO91 "like the extra
> >
> > class" causes people to go to their safe spaces.
> >
> >
> > -Dave, KG5CCI
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 6:45 AM, kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >> I am a little disturbed that these ideas were just published no vote not
> >
> >> input. I am a paying member I had no input. Honest feel like a
> handful of
> >
> >> individuals who want to treat the birds like the extra class band when
> >
> >> convent and whine when they don't get their way.
> >
> >
> >> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------------
> >
> >> -------- Original message --------From: "Sean K. via AMSAT-BB" <
> >
> >> amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Date: 12/12/17 21:48 (GMT-06:00) To: Sean Waite <
> >
> >> waisean@xxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Subject: Re:
> [amsat-bb]
> >
> >> FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
> >
> >> Beginning and Experienced Operators
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 16:43:13 -0500
From: Greg <almetco@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
Message-ID: <A2F97B7B-515D-42E0-A34F-92AB6D8FAC4A@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Many things in life have ?best practices? that are not ?voted? on including
engineering, surgery , etc. Why is the best practices obtained over years of
operations even in question.
Greg
N3MVF
On Dec 13, 2017, at 4:30 PM, R.T.Liddy <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
KG5JUP,
The AMSAT BB is open to all & no membership/dues required.
Anyone can comment on whatever is posted on it, which you did.
Someone volunteered their time to summarize what many folks feel
are good operating procedures. Without guidelines, there would
continue to be the chaos on the FM Satellites that has been seen.
New people should appreciate having guidance on how to operate
on a shared resource. Otherwise, they merely contribute to the chaos.
FYI, there is no voting on a volunteered set of guidelines. You either
follow them or you don't. They aren't Rules.
You could have suggested a rewording of portions of the guidelines
and asked for discussion and a reissue. Instead, you inferred that the
SATs are being controlled by only certain individuals and they are
whiners.
Now, why don't you tell the users here what you feel should be different
in those guidelines based on your experience and observations. Then,
people can comment on the pros and cons of your ideas. Perhaps, the
guidelines can be improved.
TNX/73, Bob K8BL
P.S. Please sign your posts with your Name/Call so we know who you are.
________________________________
From: kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx>
To: R.T.Liddy <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>; AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
Hello there! I am one of the ones you speak of and my only issue was how
the suvesstions were presented and that someone can just post to AMSAT site
with out a vote or discussion.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Date: 12/13/17 12:20 (GMT-06:00)
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
Dave,
Thanks for the good words about the reality of SAT operations.
Apparently, some people do not appreciate DX and/or Roving
or Gridding QSOs on our Satellites. They don't realize or care
that there is a LOT of time and expense involved with providing
these contacts for other SAT users from rare locations.
Amazingly, it seems that some of the vocal folks are objecting
to being reminded to use courtesy when the resources are busy
with highly sought stations. There are very many SAT passes that
are not busy at all. Is it that inconvenient to use those passes?
Even more amazing is that it has been pointed out that some of
the objectors haven't been actual users of the Satellites. One would
wonder why they are voicing objections in the first place.
Our hobby often has a problem getting folks to volunteer to do
some of the needed tasks that we all would benefit from. Then, when
someone steps forward to help with a needed task (writing an Operating
Practice) there are folks that do nothing but complain about what that
volunteer actually does! Go figure!!!
73 & Merry Christmas to ALL!!! de Bob K8BL (AMSAT #6593)
________________________________
From: David Swanson <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
Christopher,
I ask you the same question I asked another earlier in this thread: Do you
actually operate on the Amateur Satellites? I have checked my logs, and I
don't see you in them with your KG5JUP or your AA5EM call sign. Not saying
it's possible I could have missed you, but 5000 logged AMSAT QSOs since
2014 and you're not in them makes a fairly compelling case. Sean is not
trying pass a law by tyrannical decree here, he is an active operator who
has made a lot of contacts and been on both the chasing side and the DX
side of the QSO. He made a list of suggested guidelines based on his (and
other active ops) experiences, and he did a bang up job with it too. If
that rustles your jimmies too much, then maybe you should re-evaluate what
you're expecting by belonging to an organization like AMSAT.
Also - for those that have been around since before AO-91 - please go back
and reference the K0D operation I did with AC0RA last month. We activated
20 rares grids thru the Western Dakotas in 3 days. We only got on 3 FM
passes the entire trip. I got a lot of flack from FM only operators for
avoiding the repeater birds - but this thread is proof positive of exactly
why we did it that way. If folks get upset over asking for some courtesy
towards the rovers out there busting their tail off, that's fine. I for one
am done chasing grids now that I've got my 488 confirmed - and plan to put
some serious effort into roving the next few years. I'm happy to stick to
the linear birds only when on the road, if treating AO91 "like the extra
class" causes people to go to their safe spaces.
-Dave, KG5CCI
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 6:45 AM, kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> I am a little disturbed that these ideas were just published no vote not
> input. I am a paying member I had no input. Honest feel like a handful of
> individuals who want to treat the birds like the extra class band when
> convent and whine when they don't get their way.
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------
> -------- Original message --------From: "Sean K. via AMSAT-BB" <
> amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Date: 12/12/17 21:48 (GMT-06:00) To: Sean Waite <
> waisean@xxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb]
> FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
> Beginning and Experienced Operators
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 17:00:22 -0500
From: <kb2mjeff@xxx.xxx>
To: "Amsat" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
Message-ID: <227E1055727E4F7D9825E3FC374C31B9@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
There are two things that are sad about all of this is...
The discussion about the FM satellites has been going on for as long as
I've been working the sats, coming up on 30 years. Geez am I getting old. It
will never change. What happens is as the newness of AO-91 wears off it will
settle down. it always does Let's all be patient.
The second thing is I wouldn't even be involved in this discussion, I know
better but I elmered my good friend Russ kl1nk today on two passes of AO-91.
The first pass low over the Caribbean went well, he made two contacts, the
second high pass over the US was a disaster. He didn't make a single
contact, as far as I can tell he wasn't even heard. He could not believe
what a mess it was. I told him the SSB satellites were much more relaxed,
but being retired on a fixed income, I don't think he has the money to
invest in the required equipment. Trying to get new people interested in sat
operation is a very hard sell. I had to almost beg him to take my Arrow
antenna I loaned him home to work on it. Back to the linear birds for me :-)
73 Jeff kb2m
-----Original Message-----
From: R.T.Liddy
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 4:30 PM
To: AMSAT BB
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
KG5JUP,
The AMSAT BB is open to all & no membership/dues required.
Anyone can comment on whatever is posted on it, which you did.
Someone volunteered their time to summarize what many folks feel
are good operating procedures. Without guidelines, there would
continue to be the chaos on the FM Satellites that has been seen.
New people should appreciate having guidance on how to operate
on a shared resource. Otherwise, they merely contribute to the chaos.
FYI, there is no voting on a volunteered set of guidelines. You either
follow them or you don't. They aren't Rules.
You could have suggested a rewording of portions of the guidelines
and asked for discussion and a reissue. Instead, you inferred that the
SATs are being controlled by only certain individuals and they are
whiners.
Now, why don't you tell the users here what you feel should be different
in those guidelines based on your experience and observations. Then,
people can comment on the pros and cons of your ideas. Perhaps, the
guidelines can be improved.
TNX/73, Bob K8BL
P.S. Please sign your posts with your Name/Call so we know who you are.
________________________________
From: kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx>
To: R.T.Liddy <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>; AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
Hello there! I am one of the ones you speak of and my only issue was how
the suvesstions were presented and that someone can just post to AMSAT site
with out a vote or discussion.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Date: 12/13/17 12:20 (GMT-06:00)
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
Dave,
Thanks for the good words about the reality of SAT operations.
Apparently, some people do not appreciate DX and/or Roving
or Gridding QSOs on our Satellites. They don't realize or care
that there is a LOT of time and expense involved with providing
these contacts for other SAT users from rare locations.
Amazingly, it seems that some of the vocal folks are objecting
to being reminded to use courtesy when the resources are busy
with highly sought stations. There are very many SAT passes that
are not busy at all. Is it that inconvenient to use those passes?
Even more amazing is that it has been pointed out that some of
the objectors haven't been actual users of the Satellites. One would
wonder why they are voicing objections in the first place.
Our hobby often has a problem getting folks to volunteer to do
some of the needed tasks that we all would benefit from. Then, when
someone steps forward to help with a needed task (writing an Operating
Practice) there are folks that do nothing but complain about what that
volunteer actually does! Go figure!!!
73 & Merry Christmas to ALL!!! de Bob K8BL (AMSAT #6593)
________________________________
From: David Swanson <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
Christopher,
I ask you the same question I asked another earlier in this thread: Do you
actually operate on the Amateur Satellites? I have checked my logs, and I
don't see you in them with your KG5JUP or your AA5EM call sign. Not saying
it's possible I could have missed you, but 5000 logged AMSAT QSOs since
2014 and you're not in them makes a fairly compelling case. Sean is not
trying pass a law by tyrannical decree here, he is an active operator who
has made a lot of contacts and been on both the chasing side and the DX
side of the QSO. He made a list of suggested guidelines based on his (and
other active ops) experiences, and he did a bang up job with it too. If
that rustles your jimmies too much, then maybe you should re-evaluate what
you're expecting by belonging to an organization like AMSAT.
Also - for those that have been around since before AO-91 - please go back
and reference the K0D operation I did with AC0RA last month. We activated
20 rares grids thru the Western Dakotas in 3 days. We only got on 3 FM
passes the entire trip. I got a lot of flack from FM only operators for
avoiding the repeater birds - but this thread is proof positive of exactly
why we did it that way. If folks get upset over asking for some courtesy
towards the rovers out there busting their tail off, that's fine. I for one
am done chasing grids now that I've got my 488 confirmed - and plan to put
some serious effort into roving the next few years. I'm happy to stick to
the linear birds only when on the road, if treating AO91 "like the extra
class" causes people to go to their safe spaces.
-Dave, KG5CCI
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 6:45 AM, kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> I am a little disturbed that these ideas were just published no vote not
> input. I am a paying member I had no input. Honest feel like a handful
> of
> individuals who want to treat the birds like the extra class band when
> convent and whine when they don't get their way.
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------
> -------- Original message --------From: "Sean K. via AMSAT-BB" <
> amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Date: 12/12/17 21:48 (GMT-06:00) To: Sean Waite <
> waisean@xxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb]
> FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
> Beginning and Experienced Operators
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 16:23:00 -0600
From: Bill Dillon <bill.g.dillon@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Amsat <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
Message-ID:
<CADnLNZzTPeWFQVSqwDJTWbjtW-5TZDD6P1ukATE_VL8hF94nFA@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I'd love to see Sean's guidelines included in the next "Getting Started
with Amateur Satellites" book. Listening, Courtesy, and Situational
Awareness prevents many problems.
73 de Bill, KG5FQX
On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 4:00 PM, <kb2mjeff@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> There are two things that are sad about all of this is...
> The discussion about the FM satellites has been going on for as long as
> I've been working the sats, coming up on 30 years. Geez am I getting old.
> It will never change. What happens is as the newness of AO-91 wears off it
> will settle down. it always does Let's all be patient.
> The second thing is I wouldn't even be involved in this discussion, I
> know better but I elmered my good friend Russ kl1nk today on two passes of
> AO-91. The first pass low over the Caribbean went well, he made two
> contacts, the second high pass over the US was a disaster. He didn't make
> a single contact, as far as I can tell he wasn't even heard. He could not
> believe what a mess it was. I told him the SSB satellites were much more
> relaxed, but being retired on a fixed income, I don't think he has the
> money to invest in the required equipment. Trying to get new people
> interested in sat operation is a very hard sell. I had to almost beg him to
> take my Arrow antenna I loaned him home to work on it. Back to the linear
> birds for me :-)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m
>
> -----Original Message----- From: R.T.Liddy
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 4:30 PM
> To: AMSAT BB
>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
> Beginning and Experienced Operators
>
> KG5JUP,
>
> The AMSAT BB is open to all & no membership/dues required.
>
> Anyone can comment on whatever is posted on it, which you did.
>
> Someone volunteered their time to summarize what many folks feel
> are good operating procedures. Without guidelines, there would
> continue to be the chaos on the FM Satellites that has been seen.
>
> New people should appreciate having guidance on how to operate
> on a shared resource. Otherwise, they merely contribute to the chaos.
>
> FYI, there is no voting on a volunteered set of guidelines. You either
> follow them or you don't. They aren't Rules.
>
> You could have suggested a rewording of portions of the guidelines
> and asked for discussion and a reissue. Instead, you inferred that the
> SATs are being controlled by only certain individuals and they are
> whiners.
>
> Now, why don't you tell the users here what you feel should be different
> in those guidelines based on your experience and observations. Then,
> people can comment on the pros and cons of your ideas. Perhaps, the
> guidelines can be improved.
>
> TNX/73, Bob K8BL
>
> P.S. Please sign your posts with your Name/Call so we know who you are.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx>
> To: R.T.Liddy <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>; AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 3:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
> Beginning and Experienced Operators
>
>
>
> Hello there! I am one of the ones you speak of and my only issue was how
> the suvesstions were presented and that someone can just post to AMSAT site
> with out a vote or discussion.
>
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Date: 12/13/17 12:20 (GMT-06:00)
> To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
> Beginning and Experienced Operators
>
> Dave,
>
> Thanks for the good words about the reality of SAT operations.
>
> Apparently, some people do not appreciate DX and/or Roving
> or Gridding QSOs on our Satellites. They don't realize or care
> that there is a LOT of time and expense involved with providing
> these contacts for other SAT users from rare locations.
>
> Amazingly, it seems that some of the vocal folks are objecting
> to being reminded to use courtesy when the resources are busy
> with highly sought stations. There are very many SAT passes that
> are not busy at all. Is it that inconvenient to use those passes?
>
> Even more amazing is that it has been pointed out that some of
> the objectors haven't been actual users of the Satellites. One would
> wonder why they are voicing objections in the first place.
>
> Our hobby often has a problem getting folks to volunteer to do
> some of the needed tasks that we all would benefit from. Then, when
> someone steps forward to help with a needed task (writing an Operating
> Practice) there are folks that do nothing but complain about what that
> volunteer actually does! Go figure!!!
>
> 73 & Merry Christmas to ALL!!! de Bob K8BL (AMSAT #6593)
>
> ________________________________
> From: David Swanson <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
> Beginning and Experienced Operators
>
>
>
> Christopher,
>
>
> I ask you the same question I asked another earlier in this thread: Do you
>
> actually operate on the Amateur Satellites? I have checked my logs, and I
>
> don't see you in them with your KG5JUP or your AA5EM call sign. Not saying
>
> it's possible I could have missed you, but 5000 logged AMSAT QSOs since
>
> 2014 and you're not in them makes a fairly compelling case. Sean is not
>
> trying pass a law by tyrannical decree here, he is an active operator who
>
> has made a lot of contacts and been on both the chasing side and the DX
>
> side of the QSO. He made a list of suggested guidelines based on his (and
>
> other active ops) experiences, and he did a bang up job with it too. If
>
> that rustles your jimmies too much, then maybe you should re-evaluate what
>
> you're expecting by belonging to an organization like AMSAT.
>
>
> Also - for those that have been around since before AO-91 - please go back
>
> and reference the K0D operation I did with AC0RA last month. We activated
>
> 20 rares grids thru the Western Dakotas in 3 days. We only got on 3 FM
>
> passes the entire trip. I got a lot of flack from FM only operators for
>
> avoiding the repeater birds - but this thread is proof positive of exactly
>
> why we did it that way. If folks get upset over asking for some courtesy
>
> towards the rovers out there busting their tail off, that's fine. I for one
>
> am done chasing grids now that I've got my 488 confirmed - and plan to put
>
> some serious effort into roving the next few years. I'm happy to stick to
>
> the linear birds only when on the road, if treating AO91 "like the extra
>
> class" causes people to go to their safe spaces.
>
>
> -Dave, KG5CCI
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 6:45 AM, kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>
>
>>
> I am a little disturbed that these ideas were just published no vote not
>>
>
> input. I am a paying member I had no input. Honest feel like a handful of
>>
>
> individuals who want to treat the birds like the extra class band when
>>
>
> convent and whine when they don't get their way.
>>
>
>
>>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> -------- Original message --------From: "Sean K. via AMSAT-BB" <
>>
>
> amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Date: 12/12/17 21:48 (GMT-06:00) To: Sean Waite <
>>
>
> waisean@xxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb]
>>
>
> FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
>>
>
> Beginning and Experienced Operators
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 16:28:24 -0600
From: Chris Bradley <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx>
To: AMSAT Mailing List <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Operating suggestions
Message-ID:
<CANk-AFuqbfjv2ciV6tB5xTFw60Q9Za0YAySB4ULcx6V_cs2WzQ@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
My apologies for taking it to far over the last 24 or so hours. I felt and
continue to feel like the operating suggestions were well written but to me
seemed a little like a rant from a serious DXer and seemed like it would
have been better served being written and posted when the author was not
complaining about the poor practices of others. What made this matter
worse is when my opinion was immediately shouted down because I do t
operate the birdies. When in fact I said early on in this thread that on
three occasions while still under my previous call sign KG5jUP (now AA5EM)
that I had went through the time and expense to make a contact on the birds
and was unsuccessful because of I am sure my nubbie-curve and the very
problem that the suggestions are aimed to relive
>From my perspective the
suggestions were written a little in favor of the DXers in our community
which would make sense considering the author is into this part of this
niche' hobby. I will just be bold and say it. I mentioned a vote because
as an incorporated organization AMSAT allowing someone to post a set of
suggestions to their official site to the unknowing individual looks as if
it is the AMSAT way. It was a matter of perception for me. I admit, the
vote comment was actually dark sarcasm based on the goings on from the
previous string of messages that in my opinion were passive aggressive and
someone called the authors out on the matter. When I said I didn't get a
vote I was being sarcastic about those operators who feel entitled and
superior to operators like myself who are not on the birds daily. \
All of this went to far with Dave Swanson and his unabashedly rude comments
to and about me. So for the record I do not think that Sean's suggestions
should have been arbitrarily posted to the AMSAT homepage because in my
humble opinion the suggestions offer my protectionism for dxers. Though I
do agree that something needs to be done. Amateur radio is supposed to be
a self governing body because Lord knows we do not want the Federal
government regulating us.
Finally, I have NOT worked a satellite and I am not in anyone's logs but
as a member of this organization I believe that EVERY MEMBER should have an
opinion and not shouted down by the dxers when they are questioned. If
this is not the case then please by all means send my refund to my QTH
until such time please be kind to all and less like a bully. IF there are
any questions please feel free to pose them I will never shout you down.
PS. AMSAT was the first organization I joined after becoming a ham even
before my local ARC. At each ARC meeting I present AMSAT related news and
updates to the sigrin on the membership. Their eyes roll at me and I still
present the latest I am proud to be a member of this group and had even
considered attempting to build local interest and start a net and/or a club
locally. I am a disabled veteran (still working full time but barely) and
my wife is extremely illl as she needs a kidney transplant so for now I am
not "active' but I volunteer for the ANS to help do my part and learn from
you all.
Thank you,
AA5EM
Chris Bradley
Christopher R. Bradley, M. Ed MS IT
KMCO 101.3 FM | KTMC 105.1 FM
AA5EM - Extra Class Amateur Radio Op
- A.R.R.L. Oklahoma Section Traffic Mgr
- A.R.E.S. Emergency Cooridinator
Pittsburg County, Oklahoma
- AMSAT News Service Rotating Editor
624 Krebs Housing
McAlester, Oklahoma 74501
(918) 558 - 5369 <(918)%20558-5369> (Home)
(918) 424 - 7879 <(918)%20424-7879> (Mobile)
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 16:31:23 -0600
From: "KA9QJG" <KA9QJG@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
Message-ID: <006c01d37462$1babfe70$5303fb50$@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Been a Ham over 40 yrs have not actually worked the sats much other than
listen, I do have friends who have Here is a Question I would like a
real answer on .. I have been told other than the expense the reason We do
not have a geostationary fixed Sat . Is that We would unfortunately have
Hams that would just set on their and rag chew all the time and tie it up we
all know they type .. Is there any actual truth to this theory I have herd
of some now that get bigger antennas and Amps to stay in longer in the pass
, I would think that would knock out the little Guys trying to enjoy it
too...
73 and Happy Holidays
Don KA9QJG
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 17:30:37 -0600
From: Jerry Buxton <n0jy@xxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
Message-ID: <85c36643-32d5-6902-84a2-3bfc11149b86@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Don,
While someone may have opined that, from the AMSAT perspective the
expense is the reason.? The designs for Phase 4B include ragchewing and
uplink power (other than the minimums required) would make no difference
in who is on or not.
Jerry Buxton, N?JY
On 12/13/2017 16:31, KA9QJG wrote:
> Been a Ham over 40 yrs have not actually worked the sats much other than
> listen, I do have friends who have Here is a Question I would like a
> real answer on .. I have been told other than the expense the reason We do
> not have a geostationary fixed Sat . Is that We would unfortunately have
> Hams that would just set on their and rag chew all the time and tie it up we
> all know they type .. Is there any actual truth to this theory I have herd
> of some now that get bigger antennas and Amps to stay in longer in the pass
> , I would think that would knock out the little Guys trying to enjoy it
> too...
>
> 73 and Happy Holidays
>
> Don KA9QJG
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 12, Issue 336
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