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CX2SA > SATDIG 15.12.17 02:01l 1053 Lines 39473 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for Beginning and
Experienced Operators (Bernie and Cheryl)
2. Re: Rocket Lab Launch Analysis from Tuesday's attempt (B J)
3. Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2017-12-14 03:00 UTC
(AJ9N@xxx.xxxx
4. Falconsat BBS Turned Off (Tony)
5. Re: Falconsat BBS Turned Off (Scott)
6. A suggestion for Experimenter's Wednesdays on AO-91
(Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
7. Re: A suggestion for Experimenter's Wednesdays on AO-91
(Ken Alexander)
8. Rocket Lab abort (Howie DeFelice)
9. Re: A suggestion for Experimenter's Wednesdays on AO-91
(Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
10. Re: Behavior on FM Satellites (R.T.Liddy)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 17:22:45 -0700
From: Bernie and Cheryl <hamdan@xx.xxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
Beginning and Experienced Operators
Message-ID: <fdfa3d27-1226-9932-4815-cb461487895b@xx.xxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
I have several more comments.
I do think Sean's draft is reasonable.? I'd hesitate to say it ought to
have force of law (and indeed, it is likely unenforceable in any event)
because there's no one absolute "right" way to operate, other than
what's laid out in FCC regulations. Certainly, one of the reasons I've
never been a grid chaser is that I've simply been working too much at my
job to spend the time doing it.? Now that I am retired, I have been
devoting more time to ham radio, and indeed, am taking steps to upgrade
my satellite operating position (primarily automating tracking and
auto-adjusting for doppler).? But, the fact that I operated in small
spurts on the satellites for years before retirement leads to one of my
concerns about always stepping aside for "DX grids". Many on here have
commented that other passes will occur for people who aren't interested
in the grid chase.? For me, that one or two passes available on a
Saturday were usually the only passes I had available to me, regardless
of whether someone was on there with a rare grid (I don't /think/ I've
ever been a lid and stepped on someone during a pass but it could have
happened).? So, what is the response to folks who don't have the
opportunity to get on for multiple passes of a bird in a short period of
time? What do you say to the newbie who is on for maybe the 4th or 5th
time, from a very non-rare grid and just wants to make some contacts??
In asking the questions, I don't mean to say (as I stated earlier on
this thread) that people never have to step aside for grid chasers.? I'm
only trying to show that it's not so easy for everyone as has been inferred.
Another comment I have is a fairly narrow concern that arose during the
course of this thread.? Some commenters have suggested that some folks
shouldn't express their opinions because they don't show up in enough
logbooks.? This kind of attitude, at least to me, seems to reinforce the
idea that a commentator made regarding the satellite community being
somewhat closed off. Although experienced satellite operators' opinions
should certainly be given weight, the opinion of someone who doesn't
show up in enough logs but has expressed an interest in satellites and
is a dues-paying AMSAT member shouldn't be ignored merely on that
basis.? After all, as another commenttator noted, it's not necessarily
easy to get people to get into satellite operation and I'd hate to see
new folks turned off by a cliquish attitude. Please understand that I'm
not pointing fingers, but am just suggesting that all reasonable
opinions need to be heard.? I practiced law for 38 years, and I used to
get some of my best ideas for my cases from my lay-clients.? We need to
listen because we don't know where the next good idea is going to originate.
That said, I had a lot of fun yesterday, turning on my satellite rig,
hearing voices immediately, and realizing that my antenna array was
pointing directly at AO-91 just a couple of minutes before LOS.? Before
it sunk below the horizon, I was able to work WD9EWK who was roving in a
(I believe but don't know for sure because I can't tell which grid is
which off the top of my head) not particularly active grid in Arizona.?
I've now worked Pat on about 5 different satellites over a number of
years and I appreciate getting to work him on so many different birds
(anyone remember AO-27?? I worked Pat on that bird in 2006).? After
AO-91 dipped below the horizon, I looked at my tracking program and
realized that I was in AO-7's footprint.? I was able to work two SSB
stations and one CW station throughout the rest of that pass. It's a
hoot to work sophisticated satellites with a mode (CW) that lay people
think is antiquated.
I say this just to try and tell you all that I truly love this hobby
(especially the satellite aspect), and I have a lot of fun with it.?
That's why I care so much about this discussion.
73 de Bernie, KF0QS
On 12/13/2017 3:00 PM, kb2mjeff@xxx.xxx wrote:
> There are two things that are? sad about all of this is...
> ?The discussion about the FM satellites has been going on for as long
> as I've been working the sats, coming up on 30 years. Geez am I
> getting old. It will never change. What happens is as the newness of
> AO-91 wears off it will settle down. it always does Let's all be patient.
> ?The second thing is I wouldn't even be involved in this discussion, I
> know better but I elmered my good friend Russ kl1nk today on two
> passes of AO-91. The first pass low over the Caribbean went well, he
> made two contacts, the second high pass over the US was a disaster. He
> didn't make a single contact, as far as I can tell he wasn't even
> heard. He could not believe what a mess it was. I told him the SSB
> satellites were much more relaxed, but being retired on a fixed
> income, I don't think he has the money to invest in the required
> equipment. Trying to get new people interested in sat operation is a
> very hard sell. I had to almost beg him to take my Arrow antenna I
> loaned him home to work on it. Back to the linear birds for me :-)
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m
>
> -----Original Message----- From: R.T.Liddy
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 4:30 PM
> To: AMSAT BB
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
> Beginning and Experienced Operators
>
> KG5JUP,
>
> The AMSAT BB is open to all & no membership/dues required.
>
> Anyone can comment on whatever is posted on it, which you did.
>
> Someone volunteered their time to summarize what many folks feel
> are good operating procedures. Without guidelines, there would
> continue to be the chaos on the FM Satellites that has been seen.
>
> New people should appreciate having guidance on how to operate
> on a shared resource. Otherwise, they merely contribute to the chaos.
>
> FYI, there is no voting on a volunteered set of guidelines. You either
> follow them or you don't. They aren't Rules.
>
> You could have suggested a rewording of portions of the guidelines
> and asked for discussion and a reissue. Instead, you inferred that the
> SATs are being controlled by only certain individuals and they are
> whiners.
>
> Now, why don't you tell the users here what you feel should be different
> in those guidelines based on your experience and observations. Then,
> people can comment on the pros and cons of your ideas. Perhaps, the
> guidelines can be improved.
>
> TNX/73,???? Bob? K8BL
>
> P.S. Please sign your posts with your Name/Call so we know who you are.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx>
> To: R.T.Liddy <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>; AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 3:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
> Beginning and Experienced Operators
>
>
>
> Hello there!? I am one of the ones you speak of and my only issue was
> how the suvesstions were presented and that someone can just post to
> AMSAT site with out a vote or discussion.
>
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Date: 12/13/17? 12:20? (GMT-06:00)
> To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
> ?Beginning and Experienced Operators
>
> Dave,
>
> Thanks for the good words about the reality of SAT operations.
>
> Apparently, some people do not appreciate DX and/or Roving
> or Gridding QSOs on our Satellites. They don't realize or care
> that there is a LOT of time and expense involved with providing
> these contacts for other SAT users from rare locations.
>
> Amazingly, it seems that some of the vocal folks are objecting
> to being reminded to use courtesy when the resources are busy
> with highly sought stations. There are very many SAT passes that
> are not busy at all. Is it that inconvenient to use those passes?
>
> Even more amazing is that it has been pointed out that some of
> the objectors haven't been actual users of the Satellites. One would
> wonder why they are voicing objections in the first place.
>
> Our hobby often has a problem getting folks to volunteer to do
> some of the needed tasks that we all would benefit from. Then, when
> someone steps forward to help with a needed task (writing an Operating
> Practice) there are folks that do nothing but complain about what that
> volunteer actually does! Go figure!!!
>
> 73 & Merry Christmas to ALL!!!? de Bob K8BL? (AMSAT #6593)
>
> ________________________________
> From: David Swanson <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
> Beginning and Experienced Operators
>
>
>
> Christopher,
>
>
> I ask you the same question I asked another earlier in this thread: Do
> you
>
> actually operate on the Amateur Satellites? I have checked my logs, and I
>
> don't see you in them with your KG5JUP or your AA5EM call sign. Not
> saying
>
> it's possible I could have missed you, but 5000 logged AMSAT QSOs since
>
> 2014 and you're not in them makes a fairly compelling case. Sean is not
>
> trying pass a law by tyrannical decree here, he is an active operator who
>
> has made a lot of contacts and been on both the chasing side and the DX
>
> side of the QSO. He made a list of suggested guidelines based on his (and
>
> other active ops) experiences, and he did a bang up job with it too.? If
>
> that rustles your jimmies too much, then maybe you should re-evaluate
> what
>
> you're expecting by belonging to an organization like AMSAT.
>
>
> Also - for those that have been around since before AO-91 - please go
> back
>
> and reference the K0D operation I did with AC0RA last month. We activated
>
> 20 rares grids thru the Western Dakotas in 3 days. We only got on 3 FM
>
> passes the entire trip. I got a lot of flack from FM only operators for
>
> avoiding the repeater birds - but this thread is proof positive of
> exactly
>
> why we did it that way. If folks get upset over asking for some courtesy
>
> towards the rovers out there busting their tail off, that's fine. I
> for one
>
> am done chasing grids now that I've got my 488 confirmed - and plan to
> put
>
> some serious effort into roving the next few years. I'm happy to stick to
>
> the linear birds only when on the road, if treating AO91 "like the extra
>
> class" causes people to go to their safe spaces.
>
>
> -Dave, KG5CCI
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 6:45 AM, kg5jup <kg5jup@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>
>>
>
>> I am a little disturbed that these ideas were just published no vote not
>
>> input.? I am a paying member I had no input.? Honest feel like a
>> handful of
>
>> individuals who want to treat the birds like the extra class band when
>
>> convent and whine when they don't get their way.
>
>>
>
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------
>
>
>> -------- Original message --------From: "Sean K. via AMSAT-BB" <
>
>> amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Date: 12/12/17 21:48? (GMT-06:00) To: Sean Waite <
>
>> waisean@xxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx> Subject: Re:
>> [amsat-bb]
>
>> FM Satellites: Good Operating Practices for
>
>> ? Beginning and Experienced Operators
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 02:31:34 +0000
From: B J <va6bmj@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Wendy and Terry Osborne <wandtosborne@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Rocket Lab Launch Analysis from Tuesday's
attempt
Message-ID:
<CAP7QzkO+8YsCWj5Hhi1wiQNhky9ZQFdS8_zRYW3dF8k5eBH9Dw@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
On 12/13/17, Wendy and Terry Osborne <wandtosborne@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Rocket have released their analysis from Tuesday.
>
> ?Analysis of yesterday's launch attempt is complete. Launch was aborted due
> to rising liquid oxygen temperatures - the result of a LOx chilldown bleed
> schedule not compatible with the warm conditions of the day. The fix is
> simple. Next attempt tomorrow! #StillTesting ?.
>
> Well it was about 30 degrees C (86 F) at the Launch site and the rocket is
> black.
>
> The weather forecast for the launch site today is for showers this morning
> but clearing this afternoon.
> First rain for about a month.
> See: https://twitter.com/RocketLab for updates.
<snip>
Launch scrubbed due to high upper level winds. Next attempt possibly
tomorrow.
73
Bernhard VA6BMJ @ DO33FL
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 22:04:51 -0500
From: AJ9N@xxx.xxx
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2017-12-14
03:00 UTC
Message-ID: <5c8fe1.ed8a21a.47634453@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Upcoming ARISS Contact Schedule as of 2017-12-14 03:00 UTC
Quick list of scheduled contacts and events:
Taipei Municipal Ximen Elementary School, Taipei, Taiwan R.O.C., direct
via BN?SM
The ISS callsign is presently scheduled to be OR4ISS
The scheduled astronaut is Mark Vande Hei KG5GNP
Contact is a go for: Thu 2017-12-21 08:49:07 UTC 72 deg
****************************************************************************
**
ARISS is always glad to receive listener reports for the above contacts.
ARISS thanks everyone in advance for their assistance. Feel free to send
your reports to aj9n@xxxxx.xxx or aj9n@xxx.xxx.
Listen for the ISS on the downlink of 145.8? MHz.
****************************************************************************
***
All ARISS contacts are made via the Kenwood radio unless otherwise noted.
****************************************************************************
***
Several of you have sent me emails asking about the RAC ARISS website and
not being able to get in. That has now been changed to
http://www.ariss.org/
Note that there are links to other ARISS websites from this site.
****************************************************************************
Looking for something new to do? How about receiving DATV from the ISS?
If interested, then please go to the ARISS-EU website for complete
details. Look for the buttons indicating Ham Video.
http://www.ariss-eu.org/
If you need some assistance, ARISS mentor Kerry N6IZW, might be able to
provide some insight. Contact Kerry at kbanke@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
****************************************************************************
ARISS congratulations the following mentors who have now mentored over 100
schools:
Francesco IK?WGF with 132
Satoshi 7M3TJZ with 126
Gaston ON4WF with 123
Sergey RV3DR with 100
****************************************************************************
The webpages listed below were all reviewed for accuracy. Out of date
webpages were removed and new ones have been added. If there are
additional
ARISS websites I need to know about, please let me know.
Note, all times are approximate. It is recommended that you do your own
orbital prediction or start listening about 10 minutes before the listed
time.
All dates and times listed follow International Standard ISO 8601 date and
time format YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS
The complete schedule page has been updated as of 2017-12-14 03:00 UTC.
(***)
Here you will find a listing of all scheduled school contacts, and
questions, other ISS related websites, IRLP and Echolink websites, and
instructions for any contact that may be streamed live.
http://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf
http://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.txt
Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school events is 1199.
Each school counts as 1 event.
Total number of ARISS ISS to earth school contacts is 1148.
Each contact may have multiple schools sharing the same time slot.
Total number of ARISS supported terrestrial contacts is 47.
A complete year by year breakdown of the contacts may be found in the
file.
http://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/arissnews.rtf
Please feel free to contact me if more detailed statistics are needed.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The following US states and entities have never had an ARISS contact:
Arkansas, Delaware, South Dakota, Wyoming, American Samoa, Guam, Northern
Marianas Islands, and the Virgin Islands.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
QSL information may be found at:
http://www.ariss.org/qsl-cards.html
ISS callsigns: DP?ISS, IR?ISS, NA1SS, OR4ISS, RS?ISS
****************************************************************************
The successful school list has been updated as of 2017-12-12 18:00 UTC.
http://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/Successful_ARISS_schools.rtf
Frequency chart for packet, voice, and crossband repeater modes showing
Doppler correction as of 2005-07-29 04:00 UTC
http://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ISS_frequencies_and_Doppler_correction
.rtf
Listing of ARISS related magazine articles as of 2006-07-10 03:30 UTC.
http://www.amsat.org/amsat/ariss/news/ARISS_magazine_articles.rtf
Check out the Zoho reports of the ARISS contacts
https://reports.zoho.com/ZDBDataSheetView.cc?DBID=412218000000020415
****************************************************************************
Exp. 52 on orbit
Randy Bresnik
Paolo Nespoli IZ?JPA
Sergey Ryazanskiy
Exp. 53 on orbit
Mark Vande Hei KG5GNP
Alexander Misurkin
Joe Acaba KE5DAR
****************************************************************************
73,
Charlie Sufana AJ9N
One of the ARISS operation team mentors
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 00:27:27 -0500
From: Tony <dxdx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Falconsat BBS Turned Off
Message-ID: <fab12054-0a67-6298-3703-8adc26215528@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Looks like Falconsat's BBS has been turned off. Something we can expect
to happen now and then?
Tony -K2MO
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 00:37:51 -0500
From: "Scott" <scott23192@xxxxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Falconsat BBS Turned Off
Message-ID: <4677C5A5495E448EBAF6B52908413B1B@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
Hello!
There was a tweet about that earlier this evening:
https://twitter.com/AMSAT/status/941143593523261440
-Scott, K4KDR
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 12:27 AM
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Falconsat BBS Turned Off
Looks like Falconsat's BBS has been turned off. Something we can expect
to happen now and then?
Tony -K2MO
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 22:26:18 +0000
From: "Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)" <amsat-bb@xxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] A suggestion for Experimenter's Wednesdays on
AO-91
Message-ID:
<CAN6TEUe=4in8Kjm8WULaKFHMegfhXZhPaCgnP_Rf-pEsBuyPmw@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hi!
Now that AO-91 has been going strong for about 3 weeks, maybe it is
time to come up with something for it on Experimenter's Wednesdays,
like we have seen with SSTV on AO-85. Although I think the SSTV has
run its course and maybe something else should be tried, I'm not
suggesting any particular change to AO-85 on Wednesdays. This is
only intended as a suggestion for AO-91.
After Sean KX9X published his recent document with a list of good
operating practices for FM satellites:
https://www.amsat.org/fm-satellites-good-operating-practices-for-beginning-and
-experienced-operators/
my suggestion would be a way to encourage this, especially focusing
on one item. I tweeted a little earlier this afternoon the following:
"An AO-91 Experimenter's Wednesday suggestion: 5W or less, ideally
using HTs or portable setups & handheld directional antennas or
whips/duckies. Let's take full advantage of how well this satellite
hears & can be heard on the ground."
One comment I received on Twitter questioned having something for
Experimenter's Wednesdays on both AO-85 and AO-91, suggesting that
another day of the week should be used for AO-91. I disagreed with
that, given that it is "Experimenter's Wednesday". Unlike with AO-85
where the focus has been SSTV, my suggestion would still allow for
FM voice QSOs on AO-91 - but with a focus on using less power and
smaller stations. This would also go directly to the recommendations
that were recently published.
For those who may be concerned about doing something like this on
2 of the 3 FM satellites, there has been Experimenter's Wednesday
SSTV activity for a while now. Most of the time, this has been done
when we only had two working FM satellites (AO-85, SO-50). Maybe we
could see some coast-to-coast QSOs on AO-91 where both stations are
using power levels at 50mW or 100mW, for example.
Thanks, and 73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @xxxxxx or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 22:38:49 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ken Alexander <k.alexander@xxxxxx.xxx>
To: "amsat-bb@xxxxxx.xxxx <amsat-bb@xxxxxx.xxx>, "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] A suggestion for Experimenter's Wednesdays on
AO-91
Message-ID: <1781544429.3431151.1513291129846@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Sounds interesting!? How about (for the day) we add our transmitter power to
the exchange, for example "FN03 100mW".? It will help reinforce the concept
that only minimal power is required.
73,
KenVE3HLS
From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb@xxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 5:27 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] A suggestion for Experimenter's Wednesdays on AO-91
Hi!
Now that AO-91 has been going strong for about 3 weeks, maybe it is
time to come up with something for it on Experimenter's Wednesdays,
like we have seen with SSTV on AO-85. Although I think the SSTV has
run its course and maybe something else should be tried, I'm not
suggesting any particular change to AO-85 on Wednesdays. This is
only intended as a suggestion for AO-91.
After Sean KX9X published his recent document with a list of good
operating practices for FM satellites:
https://www.amsat.org/fm-satellites-good-operating-practices-for-beginning-and
-experienced-operators/
my suggestion would be a way to encourage this, especially focusing
on one item. I tweeted a little earlier this afternoon the following:
"An AO-91 Experimenter's Wednesday suggestion: 5W or less, ideally
using HTs or portable setups & handheld directional antennas or
whips/duckies. Let's take full advantage of how well this satellite
hears & can be heard on the ground."
One comment I received on Twitter questioned having something for
Experimenter's Wednesdays on both AO-85 and AO-91, suggesting that
another day of the week should be used for AO-91. I disagreed with
that, given that it is "Experimenter's Wednesday". Unlike with AO-85
where the focus has been SSTV, my suggestion would still allow for
FM voice QSOs on AO-91 - but with a focus on using less power and
smaller stations. This would also go directly to the recommendations
that were recently published.
For those who may be concerned about doing something like this on
2 of the 3 FM satellites, there has been Experimenter's Wednesday
SSTV activity for a while now. Most of the time, this has been done
when we only had two working FM satellites (AO-85, SO-50). Maybe we
could see some coast-to-coast QSOs on AO-91 where both stations are
using power levels at 50mW or 100mW, for example.
Thanks, and 73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @xxxxxx or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:09:42 +0000
From: Howie DeFelice <howied231@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Rocket Lab abort
Message-ID:
<BLUPR17MB0164D8393402CA7BE7FA9DECE7350@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxxxxxx.xx
x>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Since there seemed to be some interest in this, this article explains what
happened. I'm looking forward to their success !
http://satnews.com/story.php?number=932255626&menu=1
Howie
AB2S
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 22:45:04 +0000
From: "Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)" <amsat-bb@xxxxxx.xxx>
To: Ken Alexander <k.alexander@xxxxxx.xxx>, amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] A suggestion for Experimenter's Wednesdays on
AO-91
Message-ID:
<CAN6TEUeo2QGEbn=46Wcmh8a5jwCsvFwAN29TQNh737dX1rJ33g@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Ken,
I'm fine with that. I have been doing some of that already
when I work AO-91 with some of the HT/antenna combinations
I have used, and also varying power levels. I even mention the
elevation at my QTH on some transmissions, in part so I have
a record of that when trying something different.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @xxxxxx or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 10:38 PM, Ken Alexander <k.alexander@xxxxxx.xxx>
wrote:
> Sounds interesting! How about (for the day) we add our transmitter power
> to the exchange, for example "FN03 100mW". It will help reinforce the
> concept that only minimal power is required.
>
> 73,
>
> Ken
> VE3HLS
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 03:26:32 +0000 (UTC)
From: "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "ka9p@xxx.xxxx <ka9p@xxx.xxx>, "daron@xxxxxx.xxxx
<daron@xxxxxx.xxx>, "hamdan@xx.xxxxxx.xxxx <hamdan@xx.xxxxxx.xxx>,
"amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Behavior on FM Satellites
Message-ID: <1431792473.2470238.1512962792442@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Please include your Call when posting so we have a clue who you are.
TNX/73, ? ? ?Bob ?K8BL
From: Scott via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
To: daron@xxxxxx.xxxx hamdan@xx.xxxxxx.xxxx amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Behavior on FM Satellites
I've got to go with the crowd that thinks poor operating needs to be called
out, particularly on the FM birds.
?
The ARRL has called out bad operating publicly in QST since Hiram Percy
Maxim's "The Old Man" rants (their words, not mine) - feedback is a gift -
and if folks don't call it out, it can't improve.
?
I won't go into the issue of old timers repeatedly chatting on busy FM birds
- but will point out there are a number that very patiently wait and listen,
and with a very potent signal call newcomers that are trying to have a first
QSO or two, making the new guy very happy and setting a good example for
everyone.?
?
For those that shy from social media - if you were to look - you'd find DX
operators severely discouraged by rotten operating, and being fairly vocal
about why they don't think it's worth the effort. ?Adrian's post is yet
another example of the same thing.
?
You can't shrug off what's happening with "the kids are new." The kind of
behavior that one wrote about, and that I listened to, was several operators
in a row calling without anyone waiting for the station called to
acknowledge the calling operator. ?Lack of situational awareness is a kind
description of it.
?
Public shamming of a new guy getting his feet wet probably isn't the way to
go, but Paul didn't seem to suggest that except as a last resort. ?Those FM
birds are a very scarce resource, put up there by some very dedicated people
that spent alot of time and effort to make it happen. They are often
available for less than an hour a day each to the entire ham population.
?
People need to actively reach out to folks that need help, in an encouraging
way where it's innocent enough, and in a more direct way where it's
thoughtless or worse.
?
And we probably have to ask ourselves how it is that new comers show up with
so little an idea about what's expected. ?I can't imagine that happening
with anyone from Matt's radio club for example, but if you're encouraging
folks to try satellites, make sure you educate them about how to go about
it, beyond buying an HT and an Arrow and pointing it up.
?
Rant over. ?TOM
?
In a message dated 12/10/2017 5:55:27 PM Central Standard Time,
daron@xxxxxx.xxx writes:
?
Thanks Bernie,
I think you hit most of the highpoints. All operating is about courtesy, it
should be a highlight for us at all times. However please remember that
amateur radio operators are in the hobby for different reasons.
Some folks hang works of art and family photos on the wall, some folks like
certificates. Some folks like to have a conversation on the radio, some
folks prefer to exchange only callsign, grid and signal and do not wish to
talk further. Some folks might be very well technologically connected and
choose (or not) to use that connectivity for amateur radio planning, while
others may prefer to use amateur radio without being dependant on social
media. Some folks sit in a hamshack with multiple radios, computer access,
tracking systems and 'plan' their contacts based on a footprint...others
stand in the yard with a yagi and two handhelds and just work whomever comes
up.
I'm not a contester, but I sure like to pick up a new grid square and more
importantly as one who has roved and done satellite work, I like to share
them when I can be helpful. The satellites are a limited resource, we need
to take turns and let others in.
There have been west coast passes where I've listened to the downlink and
I'm the ONLY one on the pass. I've had passes where I could visit with
someone a few states away for most of the pass, stopping between comments to
ask if anyone else wants in. And I've had passes where I tried for 5
minutes and couldn't squeak my callsign in.
For the most part I think we're all willing to play nice, but certainly we
need a reminder and there is no doubt we need to continue educating people
how to use satellites.
73
Daron N7HQR CN74
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On Behalf Of Bernie
> and Cheryl
> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 3:27 PM
> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Behavior on FM Satellites
>
> Dear Folks:
>
> I certainly don't want to argue with the central premise, i.e., that
> when there's a rare grid square, it is good operating practice to back
> off of the bird and let everyone have a crack at working the "DX".
> Neither do I have a problem with good operating practice dictating
> that people not hog the bird (as has been described by Paul and other
> posters). I do have a problem with public shaming, especially if not
> preceded with a congenial email suggesting that the operator in
> question give people a chance. Most folks have their email addresses on
QRZ.com.
>
> The important thing to remember is that AMSAT hasn't published (to my
> knowledge) a rule stating that /only/ certain types of QSO's can occur
> on the FM satellites. I just looked at the website and there is a
> section called "Working Your First Satellite" and I don't see anything
> on there like that. The section on "Communications Satellites" has
> nothing like that either. Unless the control operators of the
> satellite (e.g., AO-91) made a decision in that vein, then the bird is
> open to all comers.
>
> Paul's post mentioned that the FM birds open up the hobby to a lot of
> people. That means the FM birds are going to have new people on them,
> and I think good operating practice indicates that people are welcomed
> on satellites, and if they make a mistake, the "suggestion" to improve
> their operating practice occurs in such a way that they aren't shamed,
> i.e., a tasteful email or perhaps even a snail mail.
>
> His post also mentioned that he monitored Twitter and took some other
> steps while preparing for the pass. I have to be honest and say I'm
> not a big social media person. I only opened up a Facebook page last
> year, and don't really know or care to know how to get on Twitter.
> Other than checking when AOS occurs, I typically don't do that much
> preparation for a pass. I don't think that disqualifies me from being
> able to operate on the birds. Like I said above, I will back off if
> I'm aware that there's a rare grid square on there, but I don't always
> know that's the case. All of us are coming within the footprint of
> the bird at different times, and so the newest person in the footprint
> won't always know what's happening at that moment.
>
> I guess the reason why this thread affected me to the point that I
> felt the need to reply is that I could see the situation degenerating
> very quickly into a war between two classes of operators. And then,
> given the nature of FM birds, it will be impossible for anyone to use
> them (it would be relatively easy for one angry operator to jam the
> bird during a pass), short of handing out CTSS tone codes to a select
> group. Until something like that happens, the satellites are a shared
> resource, and we're always going to be faced with folks who screw up
unintentionally.
> I'd just hate to see a flame war on the birds like we sometimes see on
> the internet.
>
> I'm not suggesting that satellite operating is "The Wild Wild West".
> I think it's just a matter of education, and courtesy.
>
> Admittedly, I'm on the FM birds rarely (I've operated AO-91 exactly
> once). I prefer the linear transponder satellites with their
> opportunity to have a real conversation as opposed to shouting out
> grid squares, but recognize (as Adrian points out in his post) that
> the setup for those birds requires more infrastructure that may be
> beyond a lot of people. However, I've been around a while (my first
> satellite QSO was on RS-10 back in 1994) and I remember how excited I
> was when I made my first QSO's, and know how devastated I would have
> been if someone called me out in a public forum because I did
> something wrong that I didn't know was wrong.
>
> All I'm asking for is that all operators in good faith be granted a
> modicum of courtesy, and we should be careful before deciding that
> someone is acting in bad faith. I love this hobby and my heart aches
> at some of the stuff I've heard on 75 meters, and on the local 2 meter
> repeaters. I'd hate to see that transfer over to the satellite
> community, which by and large, seems to be pretty professional.
>
> See you all on the birds. 73 de Bernie, KF0QS
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx.
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AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 12, Issue 337
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