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CX2SA > SATDIG 26.06.18 02:24l 782 Lines 32496 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Sent: 180626/0016Z @:CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM #:46755 [Salto] FBB7.00e $:AMSATBB13223
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: FM sats and FD (Daron Wilson)
2. SatPC32 observer changes unexpectedly (Butch)
3. Re: Field Day (whew) (JamesDuffey)
4. AMSAT change the satellite rules for FD! (Stefan Wagener)
5. Re: Field Day (whew) (JamesDuffey)
6. Re: Field Day (whew) (Ted Krempa)
7. Re: FM sats and FD (tjschuessler@???????.????
8. Field Day (whew) (David Bartholomew)
9. Re: FM sats and FD (Burns Fisher)
10. Re: FM sats and FD (Scott)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 15:31:39 -0700
From: "Daron Wilson" <daron@??????.???>
To: "'E.Mike McCardel'" <mccardelm@?????.???>, "'Burns Fisher'"
<burns@??????.??>
Cc: 'AMSAT BB' <amsat-bb@?????.???>, 'Tom Schuessler'
<tjschuessler@???????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM sats and FD
Message-ID: <026b01d40cd4$4a118810$de349830$@???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I too tried a couple passes, and found the typical poor operating procedures
to be a major part of the problem.
1. On the FM sats I really see no reason for calling CQ, yet we get it
during field day like crazy.
2. If I throw my call out with my exchange as 2A OR for example, I'm clearly
looking for the contact, I don't need your grid square and you don't need
mine to complete the exchange.
3. Personally, I try for two contacts in case the first one fails to log it
or something and I miss the points.
But, just trying to rack up a bunch of one pointers while there are many
looking for a 100 point contact isn't very helpful. It is different than
most other modes as the coverage area changes by the second. It seems
reasonable that if you get in solid and someone hears you, that others may
call you as well, so probably better to stand by the mic in case anyone else
calls you rather than call CQ or anything.
Just my two cents, still a fun mode, just a circus on field day and lots of
not so good operating.
73
-------------
One, 100 point bonus per entity for a satellite contact no matter how many
are made on different satellites.
In my example you call CQ or QRZ, I return my call, you pick it out and
answer, I confirm. You confirm. I then call CQ or QRZ, Someone else returns
my call, I pick it out and answer, They confirm. I confirm. They then CQ or
QRZ etc.
Points, 1 x 100 point bonus. Two, one point contact points.
What I see is everyone calling at once. Somebody, maybe, gets through by
calling someone they heard and continue if they don?t get stepped on.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 18:47:55 -0400
From: Butch <occamrazr@?????.???>
To: AMSAT-BB@?????.???
Subject: [amsat-bb] SatPC32 observer changes unexpectedly
Message-ID: <0C4865C9-985F-463E-89AE-CDD663AFB53E@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Fresh install of ver. 12.8d on Win 10
Running for first time and doing the following:
Enter lon & lat (in my case -84.3, 36.0)
Register > enter data and password > get password is OK!
Tap OK, program runs, Obs. (in lower left corner) reads -84.3/36.0
All looks good, do nothing else but quit.
Run program again, get Obs. 8.9/51.9 ? why?
Did this several times with same results.
What am I doing wrong?
Butch K8KO
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 17:28:07 -0600
From: JamesDuffey <jamesduffey@???????.???>
To: AMSAT-BB@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Field Day (whew)
Message-ID: <B686E630-4B5A-473C-9AB7-A499530AB198@???????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Several points:
1. Field Day is not a contest, it is an activity.
2. In reference to point 1, logs are not scored or checked by the ARRL, so
rules such as only one QSO per FM bird don?t work except for the people who
only make one FM QSO per bird. The rule can?t work because it isn?t enforced.
3. Making more than a single FM QSO per bird but not including them in your
scoring does little to help with the mess on the FM birds during Field Day.
One is still violating the rule and adding to the chaos, perhaps with good
intentions, but still...
4. The linear satellites are a much more efficient use of satellite
resources than the FM birds. Field Day is no exception to this rule, but,
due to the concentration of activity the problem is exaggerated. We should
expend some great effort during the rest of the year to get people to use
the linear birds and to move from FM to linear sats. Those of us proficient
on the linear birds should avoid the FM birds during FD and encourage others
to do the same. ?Here, let me show you how to make straight forward QSOes
without all this mess.?
5. Yes, I realize that perhaps the FM birds utilize the user resources more
effectively, at least during under utilized or only slightly over utilized
conditions, offering people with simple rigs to get on the sats, but I think
it important in the long run to encourage people to move off the FM birds to
the linear birds. I understand the economic arguments against this, but,
especially on Field Day, the reasons to favor linear sats over the FM birds
is very clear, and the rest of the year is the same, but perhaps with less
intense examples.
6. What happens on the FM birds is an example of ?The Tragedy of the
Commons?, a scientific, economic, and sociological principle about what
happens to shared resources.
Every Field Day satellite operator should read the following before
operating the FM birds on Field Day:
< https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons >
< https://archive.org/details/twolecturesonch00lloygoog >
< http://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/162/3859/1243.full.pdf >
You should probably have learned this in college, but I have heard that this
concept is falling out of favor and not being taught with as much fervor as
it once was.
7. There isn?t anything in the solution to the Field Day FM satellite
situation that we didn?t learn from our families, in pre-school,
kindergarten, Sunday school, Saturday school, catechism, or interacting with
our neighbors, both as kids and adults. If your mother was a ham, what would
she say about your behavior on the FM birds? Yes, my mom was a ham, albeit
briefly.
8. If you know someone who made more than one QSO per FM satellite, you
might want to gently remind them that their doin so takes away the ability
of others to use the satellite and accomplishes nothing tangible for them.
Peer interaction is a good way to deal with this problem.
These comments are intended to be general and not target any individual. I
am responding to the ongoing discussion on the AMSAT BB, which inspired
these comments, so it may seem like I am criticizing particular individuals,
some who have contributed to this discussion, but I am not. Those who have
written have inspired my thoughts on this topic and I understand almost all
of the arguments made. I sympathize with many of them, but that won?t solve
the problem.
Operate responsibly and share the resources wisely. Listen for the weak
ones. - Duffey KK6MC
James Duffey KK6MC
Cedar Crest NM
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 18:35:57 -0500
From: Stefan Wagener <wageners@?????.???>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT change the satellite rules for FD!
Message-ID:
<CAKu8kHB5sX7PmAPkx179w9i1uqVDVTazpmjE5carOApspgqwNA@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hi folks,
Every year we have the same issue. Folks who want to collect their "100"
points for the contest, folks who just want to operate on the satellites,
folks who want to use FD for demonstration and education and all the above
plus more.
I have never understood why ARRL or whoever made FD a "competitive" thing.
FD is so much more. If we (and AMSAT) take the satellites out of the
equation (no more points), we can still have fun, educate, show off on FD
and more.
Yes, some satellites based on location, pass, time etc will always be
congested, others will not. At least the pressure of getting the "100
points" is off and the non-pressure fun/hobby part gets back in the
equation. Personally, I don't need "100" points at FD, I like have folks
observing, learning and enjoying the hobby and test the equipment. That's
my FD spirit. FD is about to get out, working with others, invite the
community to see what we are doing, learn how our equipment works etc.
Let's start an FD "transformation" and get rid of "points" for satellites
:-)
My 2 cents and honest opinion :-)
73, Stefan VE4NSA
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 17:43:25 -0600
From: JamesDuffey <jamesduffey@???????.???>
To: Ted Krempa <k7trkradio@???????.???>
Cc: AMSAT-BB@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Field Day (whew)
Message-ID: <58E467F5-24B1-49DA-8549-2DFDD7BCFCC0@???????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Ted - I apologize to you and others on the BB I have offendewith my tone.
That was not my intent. Thank you for pointing it out. It detracted from my
message and I regret that almost as much as offending you. I will better
edit my posts in the future. Thanks - Duffey KK6MC
James Duffey KK6MC
Cedar Crest NM
> On Jun 25, 2018, at 17:36, Ted Krempa <k7trkradio@???????.???> wrote:
>
> "You should probably have learned this in college"
>
> James, why do you feel compelled to lecture the users as if they were
freshmen at the local junior college?
>
> Your dissertation is not needed nor appreciated as to your tone. Many
users of this group have not attended college and that does not makes them
any less worthy of your egghead wisdom.
>
> 73, Ted
> K7TRK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???? On Behalf Of JamesDuffey
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2018 4:28 PM
> To: AMSAT-BB@?????.???
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Field Day (whew)
>
> Several points:
>
> 1. Field Day is not a contest, it is an activity.
>
> 2. In reference to point 1, logs are not scored or checked by the ARRL, so
rules such as only one QSO per FM bird don?t work except for the people who
only make one FM QSO per bird. The rule can?t work because it isn?t enforced.
>
> 3. Making more than a single FM QSO per bird but not including them in
your scoring does little to help with the mess on the FM birds during Field
Day. One is still violating the rule and adding to the chaos, perhaps with
good intentions, but still...
>
> 4. The linear satellites are a much more efficient use of satellite
resources than the FM birds. Field Day is no exception to this rule, but,
due to the concentration of activity the problem is exaggerated. We should
expend some great effort during the rest of the year to get people to use
the linear birds and to move from FM to linear sats. Those of us proficient
on the linear birds should avoid the FM birds during FD and encourage others
to do the same. ?Here, let me show you how to make straight forward QSOes
without all this mess.?
>
> 5. Yes, I realize that perhaps the FM birds utilize the user resources
more effectively, at least during under utilized or only slightly over
utilized conditions, offering people with simple rigs to get on the sats,
but I think it important in the long run to encourage people to move off the
FM birds to the linear birds. I understand the economic arguments against
this, but, especially on Field Day, the reasons to favor linear sats over
the FM birds is very clear, and the rest of the year is the same, but
perhaps with less intense examples.
>
> 6. What happens on the FM birds is an example of ?The Tragedy of the
Commons?, a scientific, economic, and sociological principle about what
happens to shared resources.
>
> Every Field Day satellite operator should read the following before
operating the FM birds on Field Day:
>
> < https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons >
>
> < https://archive.org/details/twolecturesonch00lloygoog >
>
> < http://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/162/3859/1243.full.pdf >
>
> You should probably have learned this in college, but I have heard that
this concept is falling out of favor and not being taught with as much
fervor as it once was.
>
> 7. There isn?t anything in the solution to the Field Day FM satellite
situation that we didn?t learn from our families, in pre-school,
kindergarten, Sunday school, Saturday school, catechism, or interacting with
our neighbors, both as kids and adults. If your mother was a ham, what would
she say about your behavior on the FM birds? Yes, my mom was a ham, albeit
briefly.
>
> 8. If you know someone who made more than one QSO per FM satellite, you
might want to gently remind them that their doin so takes away the ability
of others to use the satellite and accomplishes nothing tangible for them.
Peer interaction is a good way to deal with this problem.
>
> These comments are intended to be general and not target any individual. I
am responding to the ongoing discussion on the AMSAT BB, which inspired
these comments, so it may seem like I am criticizing particular individuals,
some who have contributed to this discussion, but I am not. Those who have
written have inspired my thoughts on this topic and I understand almost all
of the arguments made. I sympathize with many of them, but that won?t solve
the problem.
>
> Operate responsibly and share the resources wisely. Listen for the weak
ones. - Duffey KK6MC
>
> James Duffey KK6MC
> Cedar Crest NM
>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 16:36:53 -0700
From: "Ted Krempa" <k7trkradio@???????.???>
To: "'JamesDuffey'" <jamesduffey@???????.???>, <AMSAT-BB@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Field Day (whew)
Message-ID: <002f01d40cdd$65fb70f0$31f252d0$@???????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
"You should probably have learned this in college"
James, why do you feel compelled to lecture the users as if they were
freshmen at the local junior college?
Your dissertation is not needed nor appreciated as to your tone. Many users
of this group have not attended college and that does not make them any less
worthy of your egghead wisdom.
73, Ted
K7TRK
-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???? On Behalf Of JamesDuffey
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2018 4:28 PM
To: AMSAT-BB@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Field Day (whew)
Several points:
1. Field Day is not a contest, it is an activity.
2. In reference to point 1, logs are not scored or checked by the ARRL, so
rules such as only one QSO per FM bird don?t work except for the people who
only make one FM QSO per bird. The rule can?t work because it isn?t enforced.
3. Making more than a single FM QSO per bird but not including them in your
scoring does little to help with the mess on the FM birds during Field Day.
One is still violating the rule and adding to the chaos, perhaps with good
intentions, but still...
4. The linear satellites are a much more efficient use of satellite
resources than the FM birds. Field Day is no exception to this rule, but,
due to the concentration of activity the problem is exaggerated. We should
expend some great effort during the rest of the year to get people to use
the linear birds and to move from FM to linear sats. Those of us proficient
on the linear birds should avoid the FM birds during FD and encourage others
to do the same. ?Here, let me show you how to make straight forward QSOes
without all this mess.?
5. Yes, I realize that perhaps the FM birds utilize the user resources more
effectively, at least during under utilized or only slightly over utilized
conditions, offering people with simple rigs to get on the sats, but I think
it important in the long run to encourage people to move off the FM birds to
the linear birds. I understand the economic arguments against this, but,
especially on Field Day, the reasons to favor linear sats over the FM birds
is very clear, and the rest of the year is the same, but perhaps with less
intense examples.
6. What happens on the FM birds is an example of ?The Tragedy of the
Commons?, a scientific, economic, and sociological principle about what
happens to shared resources.
Every Field Day satellite operator should read the following before
operating the FM birds on Field Day:
< https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons >
< https://archive.org/details/twolecturesonch00lloygoog >
< http://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/162/3859/1243.full.pdf >
You should probably have learned this in college, but I have heard that this
concept is falling out of favor and not being taught with as much fervor as
it once was.
7. There isn?t anything in the solution to the Field Day FM satellite
situation that we didn?t learn from our families, in pre-school,
kindergarten, Sunday school, Saturday school, catechism, or interacting with
our neighbors, both as kids and adults. If your mother was a ham, what would
she say about your behavior on the FM birds? Yes, my mom was a ham, albeit
briefly.
8. If you know someone who made more than one QSO per FM satellite, you
might want to gently remind them that their doin so takes away the ability
of others to use the satellite and accomplishes nothing tangible for them.
Peer interaction is a good way to deal with this problem.
These comments are intended to be general and not target any individual. I
am responding to the ongoing discussion on the AMSAT BB, which inspired
these comments, so it may seem like I am criticizing particular individuals,
some who have contributed to this discussion, but I am not. Those who have
written have inspired my thoughts on this topic and I understand almost all
of the arguments made. I sympathize with many of them, but that won?t solve
the problem.
Operate responsibly and share the resources wisely. Listen for the weak
ones. - Duffey KK6MC
James Duffey KK6MC
Cedar Crest NM
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 18:53:35 -0500
From: <tjschuessler@???????.???>
To: "'John Brier'" <johnbrier@?????.???>
Cc: 'AMSAT BB' <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM sats and FD
Message-ID: <007501d40cdf$bb6cff70$3246fe50$@???????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Yes the rules do definitely state the 1 contact rule for FM satellites.
What you do here are operators who still try to rack up multiple contacts on
the FM sats during FD and that only adds to the overload problem. My point
was that since it is a "Honor system" type of thing. Someone running 150
watts into a decent beam can easily make multiple QSOs on an FM FD pass and
all his QSOs still count for point (1 point only, but points just the same)
and in ARRL FD rules, there is no way to disincentivize those operators from
doing that. Now since the AMSAT rules do ask you to list contacts by
satellite, it is easy to see if someone is running more than one contact on
an FM bird. We won't see that reflected in ARRL rules so no use getting to
hyped up over the issue.
There really will never be a good solution to this. Just hope that more
stations get on the linear birds during FD, and than everyone can have lots
of fun with lower frustration levels and more completed contacts.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Brier <johnbrier@?????.???>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2018 1:32 PM
To: Tom Schuessler <tjschuessler@???????.???>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM sats and FD
I don't think the below is true:
"The issue is in ARRL rules is that all Satellite contacts whether FM or SSB
are seen as the same, then if somebody does hog the transponder trying to
get multiple contacts on an FM bird, there is no way on the field day
logging rules to throw those extra contacts out"
"7.3.7.1 Stations are limited to one (1) completed QSO on any single channel
FM satellite."
which is referenced here:
"Satellite QSOs also count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed
separately on the summary sheet as a separate "band." You do not receive an
additional bonus for contacting different satellites, though the additional
QSOs may be counted for QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1"
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 11:31 Tom Schuessler <tjschuessler@???????.???> wrote:
>
> Well first of all the article that appeared in QST a little while back
made it sound too darn easy, which yes it is, but not on field Day.
>
> The problem with Satellites and field day in my mind it relates to the way
the rules are set up. Yes ARRL and AMSAT both stipulate that only one FM QSO
per FM Satellite per field day station. The issue is in ARRL rules is that
all Satellite contacts whether FM or SSB are seen as the same, then if
somebody does hog the transponder trying to get multiple contacts on an FM
bird, there is no way on the field day logging rules to throw those extra
contacts out. On 91, I threw my call out twice made one contact and was
gone. I spent most of my effort on linear satellites and ignored other FM
passes.
>
> I do think you should look at this in a positive light. The growth in the
number of amateur radio satellite has spurred a renewed interest in this
aspect of a hobby and thus we have a potential easier time promoting AMSAT
to more and more hams. Field day is a great place to do that because most of
the people that come out are either already into amateur radio or new to the
hobby and get excited about interest areas and that?s where AMSAT people
need to get out of their house and to local clubs and field day set ups to
do what we do will help to educate people and maybe save some of the bad
behavior on the FM birds.
>
> I had my share of issues and problems this weekend, but I had fun and in
ONLY six hours of operating beat my score from last year so that was a win.
I also got to do some education too and that helps the future of our aspect
of the hobby.
>
> 73. Tom. N5HYP
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 17:07:00 -0700
From: David Bartholomew <dgbartholomew@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: [amsat-bb] Field Day (whew)
Message-ID:
<CAMfCzcwZkhm0rwhAiq+JTbsoVYEFooMCpdgTex4YjMFH0PtkZg@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
For Dave KG5CCI, I read through the whole thing you wrote and I cannot
fault you at all. You did the right thing all the way through.
I guess it all depends on the situation.
Maybe by next year I hope to be better skilled on linear sats.
Thanks and 73, Dave AD7DB
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 20:09:06 -0400
From: Burns Fisher <burns@??????.??>
To: Greg D <ko6th.greg@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>, "E.Mike McCardel"
<mccardelm@?????.???>, Tom Schuessler <tjschuessler@???????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM sats and FD
Message-ID:
<CABX7KxXNt4260JkGy5xdKYbMFrRXRDUy+Z1ZmRbm3xiOPZWv4w@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Excellent condensation of what we were saying Greg, not to mention the
additional concept of a net control getting extra points, as well as the
need for training.
Now--in a normal emergency net, a net control is pre-designated (I think).
How do you think we could do that for FD while still being in the spirit of
"practice for the real thing"? I have no good answer.
Good discussion!
Burns WB1FJ
On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 7:40 PM, Greg D <ko6th.greg@?????.???> wrote:
> Tossing in my $.02 here, for what it's worth... TL:DR: it's not the
> rules, it the training that we need to fix.
>
> From this chair, the issue isn't so much about the points as about getting
> the most number of successful contacts through during the 24hr FD window.
> The premise of the single-QSO rule for FM birds is that the single channel
> is a scarce resource, and we don't want any one op to hog it. Limiting the
> number of QSOs by any one operator gives more time for the rest. Nice in
> theory, but as we experience every year, this is ineffective in practice.
> I fact, I think it's possibly counter productive to the objective. Let me
> explain...
>
> We see the effect all the time when checking into a net. Net control
> calls for checkins, and there's a roar of RF thrown at him/her from which
> some morsel of a callsign is extracted. Net control narrows the field down
> to that morsel, and the process repeats until a single whole call is
> extracted and logged, then on to the next person.
>
> Now look at what happens if there is no net control. At the end of a
> contact, everyone throws their callsign out, but lacking a net control,
> there is no clear process for extracting and filtering callsign morsels to
> make a 2-way contact. Instead of trying to succeed making a 1-to-n
> connection, you're trying to create a winning pair out of an m-by-n zoo.
> Eventually timing (yes, a skill), luck, and big hammers (amplifiers) will
> result in one of those m-by-n pairings to succeed, but it will take time.
> If the rules are constructed to remove the winning participants after every
> successful contact, you are forcing that m-by-n chaos to repeat for every
> contact. I submit that this is nuts, given the limited time a satellite is
> within view, the limited bandwidth (especially for FM birds), and with the
> limited number of them that we have.
>
> Rather, I think it would be better to encourage through the points system
*and
> through documentation and training* to let a net control role naturally
> emerge. The net control station gets some small additional benefit for
> ascending to this role by the additional QSOs completed, and the overall
> rate of QSOs completed goes up because you're back to a 1-to-n process, so
> everyone wins in the end. The process also helps develop the operator
> skills of the net control role, just as it does when a station on HF
> "holds" a frequency for a while during a contest. If the station can't
> hold the frequency, due to technique, equipment, or the loss of propagation
> at end of a pass, net control will naturally pass to the next operator with
> the skill and equipment to take on that role.
>
> The current ARRL rules giving 100 points for the first contact, and 1
> point for each contact beyond that, are aligned with this strategy, though
> I think that adjustments can be made to make it even better. The single
> QSO rule needs to be removed, and in its place should be a set of
> guidelines (training) for good behavior. These include the acknowledgment
> of the net control role, and the documenting of the inefficiency that
> results when there is a power struggle for net control. In this regard, I
> think that lowering the prize for additional contacts to 1 point for every
> two contacts might be better. We don't want the role to be so juicy that
> everyone fights for it; better for some to take that 100 points for the
> first contact as a check-in, and go somewhere else for the incremental ones.
>
> Bottom line, EMike and others are on the right path with the net control
> role, but we're missing the training aspect showing why it's a good idea,
> and how to behave when you're net control, or just trying to check in.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Greg KO6TH
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 19:11:20 -0500
From: Scott <ka9p@???.???>
To: amsat-bb@??????.???
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM sats and FD
Message-ID: <D01A82EC-4373-4504-A00A-4D6C007E0D36@???.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Patrick, all due respect (and I have a ton for every thing you?ve done) when
I put the question - can I work the same sat station in SSB and CW - to the
email address listed in the Field Day rules, I got a very prompt, courteous
but unambiguous email reply from a guy that should know, of ?no.?
Which as I said seemed odd, but it was the answer I got when I asked. If
it?s wrong, great, the rules make more sense !?
I will drop the gent that sent me that answer yet another note. He may have
been distracted by other differences between AMSAT and ARRL, who knows, I
expect it was a busy time. Happy to share who it was privately if it helps
resolve future confusion.
Thanks Patrick.
73 Scott
Make something good happen!
> On Jun 25, 2018, at 5:28 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)
<amsat-bb@??????.???> wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> Just like with any of the other bands used for Field Day, ARRL's
> Field Day rules provide for 3 modes for use with the "Satellite"
> band - CW, Digital, and Phone. There is no separation in the Phone
> category for SSB vs. FM, nor is there any separation in the Digital
> category between packet, RTTY, PSK31, FT8, or any of the other
> digital modes. Where AMSAT's Field Day rules allow me to work a
> station across different satellites, and possibly even different
> modes on the same satellite (CW vs. SSB, or packet vs. PSK31 for
> NO-84), ARRL's rules don't go to that detail.
>
> I know that I will not be able to count several of my satellite
> contacts for the ARRL Field Day submission. For example, I worked
> KB6LTY on AO-91 in FM, CAS-4B in SSB, and NO-84 in packet. For
> ARRL's rules, one of the non-packet QSOs is a dupe, since there is
> only a "phone" mode for satellites - just like there is only a
> "phone" mode for each HF band.
>
> Again, this is something I've dealt with for many years, including
> not scoring contacts that exceed the one-QSO-per-FM-satellite rule,
> or contacts that are considered dupes under one set of Field Day
> rules (usually the ARRL's rules). It really isn't hard to deal with,
> but there are differences between the two rulesets that have to be
> addressed - if you plan on making an entry for your Field Day effort.
>
> 73!
>
>
>
>
>
> Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> Twitter: @?????? or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 8:32 PM, Scott McDonald via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
>> Not sure which is the point of confusion here, but when I queried the ARRL
>> last week before Field Day I was told that ?Satellite? was a band and that
>> Mode was irrelevant ( because I wanted to see if I could work a station on
>> both SSB and Cw.)
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 13, Issue 223
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