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CX2SA > SATDIG 18.11.18 01:12l 657 Lines 23809 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : AMSATBB13382
Read: GUEST
Subj: AMSAT-BB-digest V13 382
Path: IW8PGT<CX2SA
Sent: 181117/2308Z @:CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM #:58463 [Salto] FBB7.00e $:AMSATBB13382
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Es?hail-2 + JY1SAT (M5AKA)
2. Re: Up and down converters (Zach Metzinger)
3. Re: Up and down converters (Gregory Beat)
4. Station advice: coax (Keith E. Brandt, WD9GET)
5. British Amateur Television Club (BATC) : Es?hail 2 (P4-A)
(Gregory Beat)
6. Es?hail-2 (Max)
7. Congratulations to the guys who are devoted to make the hobby
progress (Jean Marc Momple)
8. Re: Station advice: coax (GEO Badger)
9. Re: Station advice: coax (Bob Hammond)
10. Re: Station advice: coax (Mark D. Johns)
11. an opinion (Bob- W7LRD)
12. Re: an opinion (skristof@???????.????
13. Re: an opinion (Michael Styne)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 17:28:33 +0000 (UTC)
From: M5AKA <m5aka@?????.??.??>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Es?hail-2 + JY1SAT
Message-ID: <1075198187.3565185.1542475713392@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Es?hail-2 / P4-A positioning and IOT phase started
https://amsat-uk.org/2018/11/17/eshail-2-p4-a-positioning-and-iot-phase-starte
d/
JY1SAT Launch Nov 19 Information and Dashboard
https://amsat-uk.org/2018/11/16/jy1sat-cubesat-information/
Nov 19 SSO-A mission with Amateur Radio satellites (with link to some
Doppler.sqf info)
https://amsat-uk.org/2018/11/14/ssoa-amateur-radio-satellites/
Es?hail-2 geostationary satellite launch
https://amsat-uk.org/2018/11/05/eshail-2-geostationary-transponders/
Trevor M5AKA----
AMSAT-UK?http://amsat-uk.org/
Twitter?https://twitter.com/AmsatUK
Facebook?https://facebook.com/AmsatUK
YouTube?https://youtube.com/AmsatUK
----
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 11:29:56 -0600
From: Zach Metzinger <zmetzing@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Up and down converters
Message-ID: <bca48f58-0222-0575-6b80-a657c7547994@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 11/17/18 00:11, Gopal Madhavan wrote:
> Is any information available for up and down converters for using VHF and
> UHF radios to work the new Geo Stationary satellite?
A possible route for RX: cheap LNB ($15 USD) such as the FTW 200 on
eBay, some retuning of the input filter to move it down into the amateur
band, and a RTL-SDR dongle.
Seems like there is a lot of 2.4 GHz hardware around (hihi) for the TX side.
WebSDR in the works for Es'hail-2 at:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/michael.fletcher/amsat_oh_rats_eshail_2_satellite_x_ban
d_downlink_pll_lnb_kiwisdr.htm
--- Zach
N0ZGO
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 12:06:20 -0600
From: Gregory Beat <w9gb@??????.???>
To: gopal@?????????.???
Cc: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Up and down converters
Message-ID: <CACA37E5-2DFA-4AF8-A83B-EAD08A5226EB@??????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
The new P4-A (Es?hail 2) satellite will be located a 26? East longitude
(west of Istanbul, Turkey). You should ?bookmark? the AMSAT-DL web page on
P4-A.
https://amsat-dl.org/eshail-2-amsat-phase-4-a
This web page has the basic information on the P4-A / Es?hail 2 satellite.
The satellite is NOT yet ?in GEO position? for operation (typically several
weeks)
AMSAT-DL will announce, when open in 2019.
https://amsat-dl.org/p4a-positionining-and-iot?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=t
witter
?
The P4-A Satellite only has ?S-band? UPLINK with RHCP and ?Ku-band? DOWNLINK
(Vertical for narrow; Horizontal for Wide) transponders.
Their are Two (2) Linear Transponders : Narrow (250 kHz) and Wide Band (8 MHz)
?
I would suggest that you FIRST focus on your DOWNLINK (Receiver) setup.
While Commercial solutions will require $$$, numerous Ku-band satellite TV
components exist in the global market ? as starting points for DIY builder.
DIY solutions will require previous ?Maker? / ?Builder? fabrication skills &
technical knowledge. IF you are an appliance radio operator, this is not a
good ?first DIY build?.
?
Roland, DF3LZ has been documenting his DIY Receiver Build (follow on Twitter
@????? ) , using the Octagon Optima OTLSO LNB and the DF9NP PLL with 10 MHz
GPS.
http://lnbreviews.blogspot.com/2017/04/octagon-optima-otlso-pll-slim-twin.html
Dieter Leupold, DF9NP
http://www.df9np.de/page2.html
Price List
http://www.df9np.de/Contents/Price%20List%20PLLs.pdf
====
From: "Gopal Madhavan"
Subject: [amsat-bb] Up and down converters
Any information available for up and down converters that use VHF and
UHF radios to work the new Geo-Stationary satellite? (P4-A, Es?hail 2)
Gopal Madhavan VU2GMN / M0GDB
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 12:09:43 -0600
From: "Keith E. Brandt, WD9GET" <wd9get@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: [amsat-bb] Station advice: coax
Message-ID: <74a2b57a-f310-8a8b-c22f-dd5c7052e0ee@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
There's been a lot of good station advice on the reflector recently that
I've really appreciated. I'm slowly but surely building up my sat ground
station. I've got my Yaesu G5400B connected and running and I've got an
antenna plan. The next issue is running coax.
What's the recommendation on coax runs? It looks like I'll have between
75 and 100 ft from the shack to the mount. I can envision running a
separate line for 2m and 440, but is it also effective to use a diplexer
at the antenna? Does that limit my ability to later add a mast-mounted
preamp with power-over-coax? (I'll probably add preamp(s) at a later date)
Is the ultraflex coax really necessary for hooking up around the
rotator? I'm sure it's better, but is it really worth the extra cost? I
certainly don't want to pay the high price for ultraflex for the full
run, especially if I'm using two lines.
Thoughts appreciated.
73,
Keith
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Keith E. Brandt, MD, MPH
/wd9get@?????.????
/Christianity and science are opposed? but only in the same sense as my
thumb
and forefinger are opposed- and between them I can grasp everything.
/?Sir William Bragg (Nobel Prize for Physics- 1915)
*This message transmitted with 100% recycled electrons
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 12:19:42 -0600
From: Gregory Beat <w9gb@??????.???>
To: gopal@?????????.???
Cc: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: [amsat-bb] British Amateur Television Club (BATC) : Es?hail 2
(P4-A)
Message-ID: <0E37D2EA-1E10-475E-A0C7-F291118E7F6F@??????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
In co-operation with AMSAT Deutschland,
the British Amateur Television Club will be operating a WebSDR for the
Narrowband segment, and a Spectrum Viewer for the Wideband (DATV) segment of
P4-A.
https://eshail.batc.org.uk/
The Goonhilly Earth Station is supporting the P4-A project, providing
hosting for the Ground Station facility at their world-famous site in
Cornwall, UK.
BATC has a specific forum for Es?hail 2 (P4-A) DATV transponder discussions.
https://forum.batc.org.uk/viewforum.php?f=101
w9gb
Sent from iPad Air
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 20:16:40 +0200
From: Max <max@????????.???.??>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: [amsat-bb] Es?hail-2
Message-ID: <69124695-071d-b73c-9c88-6367294183e9@????????.???.??>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Good day, Please tell me which output power SSB mode from the satellite?
Thanks.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 22:37:47 +0400
From: Jean Marc Momple <jean.marc.momple@?????.???>
To: AMSAT -BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Congratulations to the guys who are devoted to
make the hobby progress
Message-ID: <EE2DE902-A558-46E7-9118-84C935FF8247@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Dear All,
I decoded CubeBel 1 TLM today for the first time and was happily surprised
to read:
"2:Fm EU10S To EU1XX <UI R Pid=F0 Len=256> [19:51:46R] [AA] [+++++++]
??.@>?+)Many thanks to DK3WN, UZ7HO and SatNOGS!i"
I was really happy to see the callsigns of these 2 Guru?s which are doing
such great job for the community coming down from the bird. My thoughts
going also to many others doing/ enabling such great success for the
community working long hours without even expecting any recognition or
reward, it is so great that Mike and Andy are being recognized for their
great work with messages coming from space.
My personal congratulations to them and to all others doing tremendous work
putting birds in space and the required tools required to enjoy the hobby.
Please join me to say "Grand Bravo" to Andy and Mike, and to all others for
their achievements which enable use to play with space technologies at home
with relatively humble means.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 19:11:51 +0000 (UTC)
From: GEO Badger <w3ab@?????.???>
To: "Keith E. Brandt, WD9GET" <wd9get@?????.???>,
"amsat-bb@?????.???? <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Station advice: coax
Message-ID: <160094457.2162338.1542481911513@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Keith,?
You want the lowest loss coax you can afford for your run. ?" hard line
would be a good choice, though not inexpensive and neither are the
connectors. Plus it is rather rigid and can be difficult to handle.
Terminate it at the rotator and use a flexible jumper from there to the
antennas.
To use a diplexer you'll need one at both ends, assuming 2 antennas. Recall
that a diplexer will have insertion loss of >3 dB. And that I don't believe
they will pass DC. Though I haven't ever checked that.?---?
Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side. ??
GEO ???
http://www.w3ab.org
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.
From: "Keith E. Brandt, WD9GET" <wd9get@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2018 10:11 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Station advice: coax
There's been a lot of good station advice on the reflector recently that
I've really appreciated. I'm slowly but surely building up my sat ground
station. I've got my Yaesu G5400B connected and running and I've got an
antenna plan. The next issue is running coax.
What's the recommendation on coax runs? It looks like I'll have between
75 and 100 ft from the shack to the mount. I can envision running a
separate line for 2m and 440, but is it also effective to use a diplexer
at the antenna? Does that limit my ability to later add a mast-mounted
preamp with power-over-coax? (I'll probably add preamp(s) at a later date)
Is the ultraflex coax really necessary for hooking up around the
rotator? I'm sure it's better, but is it really worth the extra cost? I
certainly don't want to pay the high price for ultraflex for the full
run, especially if I'm using two lines.
Thoughts appreciated.
73,
Keith
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Keith E. Brandt, MD, MPH
/wd9get@?????.????
/Christianity and science are opposed? but only in the same sense as my
thumb
and forefinger are opposed- and between them I can grasp everything.
/?Sir William Bragg (Nobel Prize for Physics- 1915)
*This message transmitted with 100% recycled electrons
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 11:21:42 -0800
From: Bob Hammond <propgrinder@?????.???>
To: w3ab@?????.???
Cc: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Station advice: coax
Message-ID:
<CAKoB7Oqr6cn=_yMe=mXKq8CX3barnkv5zDm65_fQ-oD62TBG5w@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Keith,
I am about where you are in my satellite station setup.
I chose 9913F for coax and am running three coax lines plus two rotator
cables of 8 wires each.
I have 2M, 70cm, and 23cm antennas (helix), all with their own coax run.
The reason I chose 8-wire rotator cable
for my G-5500 is so I can pull two-wires out of each cable for the 2M and
70cm polarity switches on those
crossed-yagi CP antennas.
I'm also using a fiberglass mast from Max-Gain but only going up about 15
feet.
Hope that helps.
Bob
W7CQX
On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 11:12 AM GEO Badger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
> Keith,
> You want the lowest loss coax you can afford for your run. ?" hard line
> would be a good choice, though not inexpensive and neither are the
> connectors. Plus it is rather rigid and can be difficult to handle.
> Terminate it at the rotator and use a flexible jumper from there to the
> antennas.
> To use a diplexer you'll need one at both ends, assuming 2 antennas.
> Recall that a diplexer will have insertion loss of >3 dB. And that I don't
> believe they will pass DC. Though I haven't ever checked that. ---
> Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side.
> GEO
>
> http://www.w3ab.org
>
> Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.
>
> From: "Keith E. Brandt, WD9GET" <wd9get@?????.???>
> To: amsat-bb@?????.???
> Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2018 10:11 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Station advice: coax
>
> There's been a lot of good station advice on the reflector recently that
> I've really appreciated. I'm slowly but surely building up my sat ground
> station. I've got my Yaesu G5400B connected and running and I've got an
> antenna plan. The next issue is running coax.
>
> What's the recommendation on coax runs? It looks like I'll have between
> 75 and 100 ft from the shack to the mount. I can envision running a
> separate line for 2m and 440, but is it also effective to use a diplexer
> at the antenna? Does that limit my ability to later add a mast-mounted
> preamp with power-over-coax? (I'll probably add preamp(s) at a later date)
>
> Is the ultraflex coax really necessary for hooking up around the
> rotator? I'm sure it's better, but is it really worth the extra cost? I
> certainly don't want to pay the high price for ultraflex for the full
> run, especially if I'm using two lines.
>
> Thoughts appreciated.
>
> 73,
> Keith
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Keith E. Brandt, MD, MPH
> /wd9get@?????.????
>
> /Christianity and science are opposed? but only in the same sense as my
> thumb
> and forefinger are opposed- and between them I can grasp everything.
> /?Sir William Bragg (Nobel Prize for Physics- 1915)
>
> *This message transmitted with 100% recycled electrons
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 14:06:05 -0600
From: "Mark D. Johns" <mjohns+K0JM@??????.???>
To: wd9get@?????.???
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Station advice: coax
Message-ID:
<CAHKCqnB=CcUqbTzhDiQXZUu2Sk9VF5MGKJUUy+Es5wyqp_ezCg@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
With that kind of coax run, you'll definitely want the lowest loss feedline
you can afford, and you'll probably want the pre-amps sooner than later. If
hard line is out of the picture, LMR 600 is a good alternative. Several
outlets will sell custom lengths with connectors attached. You can get by
with LMR 400 or Belden 9913 on the 2 meter side, but loss at 435 MHz will
be greater. I would avoid the diplexer like the plague.
As GEO mentioned, you really only need the flexy stuff at the point where
things are rotating. I run LMR 600 to the pre-amp, just below the rotor,
and ultra-flex from the pre-amp to the antenna. A good, moderate-cost
alternative for pre-amps are the "Mini" pre-amps from SHF Elektronik in
Germany http://www.shf-elektronik.de/en/
--
Mark D. Johns
K?JM / M?GZO / ex-9H3DJ / ex-K?MDJ
Brooklyn Park, MN USA EN35hd
-----------------------------------------------
"Heaven goes by favor; if it went by merit,
you would stay out and your dog would go in."
---Mark Twain
On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 1:12 PM GEO Badger via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
> Keith,
> You want the lowest loss coax you can afford for your run. ?" hard line
> would be a good choice, though not inexpensive and neither are the
> connectors. Plus it is rather rigid and can be difficult to handle.
> Terminate it at the rotator and use a flexible jumper from there to the
> antennas.
> To use a diplexer you'll need one at both ends, assuming 2 antennas.
> Recall that a diplexer will have insertion loss of >3 dB. And that I don't
> believe they will pass DC. Though I haven't ever checked that. ---
> Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side.
> GEO
>
> http://www.w3ab.org
>
> Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.
>
> From: "Keith E. Brandt, WD9GET" <wd9get@?????.???>
> To: amsat-bb@?????.???
> Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2018 10:11 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Station advice: coax
>
> There's been a lot of good station advice on the reflector recently that
> I've really appreciated. I'm slowly but surely building up my sat ground
> station. I've got my Yaesu G5400B connected and running and I've got an
> antenna plan. The next issue is running coax.
>
> What's the recommendation on coax runs? It looks like I'll have between
> 75 and 100 ft from the shack to the mount. I can envision running a
> separate line for 2m and 440, but is it also effective to use a diplexer
> at the antenna? Does that limit my ability to later add a mast-mounted
> preamp with power-over-coax? (I'll probably add preamp(s) at a later date)
>
> Is the ultraflex coax really necessary for hooking up around the
> rotator? I'm sure it's better, but is it really worth the extra cost? I
> certainly don't want to pay the high price for ultraflex for the full
> run, especially if I'm using two lines.
>
> Thoughts appreciated.
>
> 73,
> Keith
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Keith E. Brandt, MD, MPH
> /wd9get@?????.????
>
> /Christianity and science are opposed? but only in the same sense as my
> thumb
> and forefinger are opposed- and between them I can grasp everything.
> /?Sir William Bragg (Nobel Prize for Physics- 1915)
>
> *This message transmitted with 100% recycled electrons
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 14:17:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Bob- W7LRD <w7lrd@???????.???>
To: amsat-bb <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] an opinion
Message-ID: <120229269.368183.1542493029414@???????.???????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Regarding the newest GEO. Once the GEO bird is in position and functioning,
we just fix our antennas to one spot, no doppler, no hunting the satellite
down, no planning for the next access time, or direction, no experimenting
with hardware or various antenna systems, no ongoing challenge. I got into
satellites many years ago because of the hunting, because of the difficulty
and challenge. This is the ultimate ?easy sat?. If one wants the easy sat
this is your baby. Yes once established one can ?work? lots of dx somewhat
analogous to a phone call. A highly elliptical orbit (AO40 sob sob) makes
one actually work, learn, experiment, and yes have fun. My opinion will no
doubt be different from others. No flames please, just a discussion.
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 17:33:20 -0500
From: skristof@???????.???
To: amsat-bb <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] an opinion
Message-ID: <f9bd4a803016fe29b80a3be5ace60def@???????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Based on some of the other threads about this satellite, it seems like
there is lots of opportunity for experimenting with transmitters,
receivers, and antennas.
I think if you are interested in some activity you can always find
something about that activity that can be your next challenge.
Steve AI9IN
On 2018-11-17 17:17, Bob- W7LRD wrote:
> Regarding the newest GEO. Once the GEO bird is in position and
functioning, we just fix our antennas to one spot, no doppler, no hunting
the satellite down, no planning for the next access time, or direction, no
experimenting with hardware or various antenna systems, no ongoing
challenge. I got into satellites many years ago because of the hunting,
because of the difficulty and challenge. This is the ultimate "easy sat". If
one wants the easy sat this is your baby. Yes once established one can
"work" lots of dx somewhat analogous to a phone call. A highly elliptical
orbit (AO40 sob sob) makes one actually work, learn, experiment, and yes
have fun. My opinion will no doubt be different from others. No flames
please, just a discussion.
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 17:53:46 -0500
From: Michael Styne <mstyne@?????.???>
To: Bob- W7LRD <w7lrd@???????.???>
Cc: amsat-bb <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] an opinion
Message-ID: <4B0925EC-8E5E-42DC-AAFA-197E86D48C5C@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Bob,
Not to worry ? there will be no shortage of difficulty and challenge working
Es?hail 2 from 7-land ... or 2-land ... or all of North America! :)
73,
Mike
Michael Styne K2MTS
mstyne@?????.???
> On Nov 17, 2018, at 17:17, Bob- W7LRD <w7lrd@???????.???> wrote:
>
> I got into satellites many years ago because of the hunting, because of
the difficulty and challenge.
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 13, Issue 382
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