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CX2SA > SATDIG 20.12.18 18:05l 1059 Lines 41236 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Yaesu G-5500 Control Interface (Carlos Cardon)
2. Re: AO-85 update (Jeff Johns)
3. Re: Cheap rotator setup (Robert)
4. Re: FW: Doppler file (John Kludt)
5. Re: FW: Doppler file (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
6. Re: Cheap rotator setup (k5oe@???.????
7. Re: Cheap rotator setup (Robert)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 19:09:46 -0700
From: "Carlos Cardon" <cdcardon@???????.???>
To: <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Yaesu G-5500 Control Interface
Message-ID: <061f01d49809$15283070$3f789150$@???????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have used the EA4TX USB controller for a couple of years with excellent
results! Early on, I discovered a bug in the firmware. Pablo had it
corrected and an update to me within less than an hour, absolutely amazing!
Not a single issue since then. Highly recommended.
Carlos
W7QL
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 20:29:03 -0600
From: Jeff Johns <jeff30339@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AO-85 update
Message-ID: <B940CC1E-CC10-4DF8-B037-E67325506616@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I?ve really enjoyed this quirky bird over the years. My fingers are crossed
that she will recover from her illness.
Jeff WE4B
> On Dec 19, 2018, at 7:12 PM, Andrew Glasbrenner
<glasbrenner@??????????.???> wrote:
>
> All,
>
>
>
> As you probably know, AO-85 has had issues recently with the batteries
> dropping precariously low during eclipse. We think it's likely the batteries
> suffered degradation due to heat during previous periods of no eclipses.
> This has made it difficult to keep the satellite available for use without
> endangering the batteries. Today the nominally 3.6v pack was down to 2.8v at
> the end of the eclipse. That is dangerously low.
>
>
>
> In an effort to extend the useable life of the satellite, this evening we
> turned both the IHU and the transmitter off. This ceases all transmissions,
> including the beacons every two minutes in both sunlit and eclipsed parts of
> the orbit. We will periodically turn the satellite back on for an orbit or
> two, in order to gather telemetry. If all goes as planned, we will turn the
> repeater back on during the next period of no eclipses beginning around
> January 24th. In the meantime, it is important to leave AO-85 tracked in
> your FoxTelem setups, in order for us to gather telemetry and keep tabs on
> the situation. If you do happen to hear a Veronica beacon, or either the
> normal repeater or the COR/no telemetry repeater, please let the list know,
> or send me an email or message directly.
>
>
>
> We appreciate your understanding and cooperation as we try to make the most
> of the situation. Please consider supporting the AMSAT GOLF project with
> your membership, and one-time or recurring donations at
> https://www.amsat.org/product-category/amsat-membership/ or
> https://www.amsat.org/donate/
>
>
>
> 73, Drew KO4MA
>
> AMSAT VP Operations
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 00:56:04 -0500
From: Robert <robert@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Cheap rotator setup
Message-ID: <5a18b79f-eea8-bbb5-137c-a888c859dbb6@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Hi Eli,
I am the author of that webpage you're using for a guide for your own
set up. I humbly appreciate that you have chosen the page for some
guidance - that page is one of the Top 5 pages at my site so lots of
folks have successfully used it. Several of them have been pushing me to
submit this to QST as an article which I may do (my last one was exactly
30 years ago - so it may be time for the next one.)
::::::::::::::::::::::::
Note that I extensively edited the web page today so I genuinely am
seeking additional help from all to help make this page even better and
to give it more clarity or correct any technical errors - especially
before I submit the page info to QST....
::::::::::::::::::::::::
Eli, as a result of your question, I just added the below info to the
web page - along with a slider that shows 31 new photos that give more
details and a detailed diagram of the antenna's beamwidth....check out
the page for more info since those cannot be shown here...but for those
who don't want to look, here is a highlight quote from the page to
hopefully answer Eli's question.
--------------------------------------
?Why Are You Using a 45? Angle for Fixed Elevation Instead of the
Recommended 15???
I thought I had better add a comment as to why I am obviously using a
45? angle instead of the recommended 15?.
I am personally surrounded by RF eating 65 foot trees and a RF eating
two-story house. As a consequence, I chose to move the A430S10 50?
antenna beamwidth (see below) and center them on a fixed 45? instead of
15?.
Ostensibly, I would lose coverage from 0? to 20? (45? center angle minus
half of the 50? beamwidth of the antennas, or 25? =? 20? ) by doing this
? but I?m going to lose those angles (and then some) anyway because of
the tree and house QRM.
Trust me when I tell you that trees and houses do a damnably good job of
blocking RF at satellite frequencies ? in my case below 30? in summer
and 22? in winter! (This is going to be one of my next videos on my
YouTube channel at http://Youtube.com/K3RRR.)
Beamwidth is loosely defined as the width of the main lobe of radiation
for both transmit and receive. This is a whole discussion by itself but
for my cheapie antenna system, you?re better off? with a wide beamwidth
versus a more narrow beamwidth for your antennas. The following diagram
from Diamond Antennas shows the comparison of what that width of the
main lobe looks like with my orange arrows showing where they cross the
3 db points.
If you kinda sorta extrapolate, you can see that an imaginary line from
the 3 db intersection point to the outer circle would translate to about
25? either side of the zero mark ? for a total spread from both sides
equal to about 50? of beamwidth. (The other chart shows the same info
for Diamond?s bigger brother the A430S15 ? 15 elements instead of 10.
you can see how much narrower the beamwidth is albeit with not that much
difference in gain.)
In more technical terms, the A430S10 has an E-Plane 3 dB Beamwidth = 50
degrees. In layman?s language, this means that you will have a good
receive AND transmit signal 25? above and 25? below your center angle ?
which in my case is 45? due to the constraints of Home Depot.
Home Depot?
I picked 45? because Home Depot sells PVC connectors for that angle ?
and only that angle since 90? angles really are not that useful for the
hamsats!
Again, with these antennas having a 50? beamwidth, my setup handled
passes between 20? and 70?. This same wide beamwidth also makes pointing
the antenna more forgiving ? which is important for cheap rotators which
are not all that accurate between calibrations.
(The E-Plane 3 dB Beamwidth = a whopping 95 degrees for the A144S5 two
meter five element Yagi ? so it was not the limiting consideration.)
But enough about me and why I chose 45?. Let?s talk about you and your
need for 15?.
Permanently Bending Schedule 40 PVC With My Wife?s Help
I need to plagiarize myself and steal a couple of paragraphs I have on
this other webpage on my site:
Attic AMSAT Antenna ? Working the Ham Radio Satellites With A Rotatable,
Computer Controlled, Yagi Attic Antenna
?If you have played with PVC for antennas for a while you will already
know they don?t make 15? connectors. So, I was faced with trying to bend
a straight piece PVC ? which I thought was going to be difficult.
?As it turns out, it is surprisingly trivial to heat even Schedule 40
PVC so that it becomes bendable with a standard 1500 watt hair dryer in
less than 10 minutes of your time! (Thanks to YouTube for this education!)?
Wife Jan?s hair dryer actually had some attachments and gizmos which
focused the heat better than mine so I swiped hers for this task. She
was surprisingly unamused and recommended I get a heat gun for future
applications. I obediently followed her recommendation and got this
particular heat gun.
Something about briar patches came to mind for some reason ? even though
there was no mention in the Amazon description.
--------------------------------------
Eli, I have just now added the above information to the cheap antenna
page ? I appreciate the heads up on helping make this clearer for other
folks too.
Hope this helps...and hope to work you on the birds soon!
73,
Robert K3RRR
?-.- ...-- .-. .-. .-.
73 de Robert K3RRR
http://K3RRR.com
@?????????
http://YouTube.com/K3RRR
-.- ...-- .-. .-. .-.
On 12/17/2018 6:37 PM, Eli Caul wrote:
> Hi folks -
>
> In my ongoing effort to figure out how to use the SSB satellites, I
duplicated this setup over the weekend:
>
>
http://k3rrr.com/cheap-computer-controlled-tv-rotor-for-amsat-satellites-and-i
ncludes-free-satellite-tracking-with-pstrotator-and-the-usb-uirt/
>
> I bought a list of materials based on the photograph, and it didn't occur
to me that the PVC parts pictured put the antennas at approximately 45
degrees and not the recommended 15 degrees.
>
> Has anyone done this setup? If so, how did you assemble it so that the
antennas ended up at the recommended angle?
>
> There were a couple of higher angle passes yesterday (one was at 50
degrees) but so far I haven't been able to 'loop' the satellite. I'm using
a Yaesu FT-991A for uplink and an Airspy SDR on the downlink.
>
> Advice appreciated. So far I've gotten some excellent advice from AMSAT
members and I really appreciate the groups level of expertise and patience
with my fundamental questions.
>
> 73 de KK6ZHZ,
>
> - Eli Caul
>
> Director of Customer Care
> Sonic
> 707-237-6201 Direct
> 707-521-0131 Faxline
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 07:32:33 -0500
From: John Kludt <johnnykludt@?????.???>
To: Bob <WB4SON@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>, Ted Krempa <k7trkradio@???????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FW: Doppler file
Message-ID:
<CABsMmtROijGawz-g6O9WyUNAVreL3aULmnaVi-jTGKxrbqjP7g@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Ted,
Have the above answered your questions? Seems to me two different issues
have been mixed here as the Keps and Doppler.sqf are two different items
and updating one does not up date the other
1. The Keps can be updated from a number of sources to be found on the
drop down under the <Satellites> tab
2. Doppler.SQF is manually updated by you when a new satellite is added
to the family using Notepad or some kind of text editor. Be sure to follow
the rules embedded in Doppler.SQF when messing with the file. You can save
a copy that has not been modified the the Uplink calibration process as
Doppler.REF or some such thing. And, yes, each radio has slightly
different calibration offsets in Doppler.SQF. That is what I use the 4
different configuration options for <Setup><Configurations>. I use one
config for a pair of FT-817's another for an IC-910H and a third for Flex
6600.
3. Don't forget if you are adding a new FM satellite to Doppler.SQF you
also need to go into Subtones.SQF and add the new satellite to that list as
well so the T0 > T1 >T2 toggle works correctly. Again follow the embedded
instructions carefully. This is another file that can be manipulated with
a text editor like Notepad.
Hope this helps,
John
On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 6:59 PM Bob <WB4SON@?????.???> wrote:
> Hi Ted,
>
> As nice as it would seem, it really isn't possible to automatically update
> the DOPPLER.SQF file. The most important reason is that each station has a
> different transmit and receive offset due to different RX and TX chain
> frequency calibration, drift, etc. It would be possible to have a baseline
> SQF file (without compensation) and a few hams do publish that.
>
> You can manually update the Kep files yourself.
>
> 73, Bob, WB4SON
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 6:36 PM Ted Krempa <k7trkradio@???????.???> wrote:
>
> > Hello, can anyone else answer my question below.....(Joanne must be busy)
> >
> > Thanks, Ted
> > K7TRK
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???? On Behalf Of Ted
> Krempa
> > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 3:49 PM
> > To: 'JoAnne Maenpaa'; 'Dave'
> > Cc: amsat-bb@?????.???
> > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Dobbler file
> >
> > Good stuff, Joanne...thanks
> >
> > One thing, though, that I have never understood, however: Does SatPC32
> > properly update keps and the sqf data when the 'update' option is used in
> > the program? Or do we need to keep updating manually. I can understand
> with
> > a new sat, manually trying to find the right data, but after the sats are
> > rolling along for a few weeks the normal sites that identify keps usually
> > have that data current.
> >
> > Thanks for any input
> >
> > 73, Ted
> > K7TRK
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???? On Behalf Of JoAnne
> > Maenpaa
> > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 5:54 AM
> > To: 'Dave'
> > Cc: amsat-bb@?????.???
> > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Dobbler file
> >
> > Perhaps these messages from the amsat-bb from a few weeks ago might offer
> > a starting point?
> >
> > https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2018-October/069839.html
> > https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2018-November/070451.html
> >
> > --
> > 73 de JoAnne K9JKM
> > k9jkm@?????.???
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???? On Behalf Of Dave
> > > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 7:40 AM
> > > To: James McIrvin
> > > Cc: amsat-bb@?????.???
> > > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Dobbler file
> > >
> > > I?m not sure if you received a private response but I have a similar
> > issue.
> > > I tried to use SatPC32 the other day and found many of the satellite
> > > frequencies were not correct. I?m going to have manually edit a bunch
> of
> > > them unless I can find someone with a good set of files.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > > N2OA
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 13:10:10 +0000
From: "Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL)" <peter@????????.??.??>
To: Ted <k7trkradio@???????.???>
Cc: Amsat <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FW: Doppler file
Message-ID:
<CAFvUaiqxeZ-iZ8g36_kBU6tGwXn_HVzPPfe7g_OYpx72u8NXvg@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Doppler.SQF are defined and managed by the user, updating TLEs has no
effect on it.
It's worth remembering frequencies will be always need tweaked during
configuration, rigs can be off frequency or even drift.
Peter 2M0SQL
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018, 23:36 Ted Krempa <k7trkradio@???????.??? wrote:
> Hello, can anyone else answer my question below.....(Joanne must be busy)
>
> Thanks, Ted
> K7TRK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???? On Behalf Of Ted Krempa
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 3:49 PM
> To: 'JoAnne Maenpaa'; 'Dave'
> Cc: amsat-bb@?????.???
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Dobbler file
>
> Good stuff, Joanne...thanks
>
> One thing, though, that I have never understood, however: Does SatPC32
> properly update keps and the sqf data when the 'update' option is used in
> the program? Or do we need to keep updating manually. I can understand with
> a new sat, manually trying to find the right data, but after the sats are
> rolling along for a few weeks the normal sites that identify keps usually
> have that data current.
>
> Thanks for any input
>
> 73, Ted
> K7TRK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???? On Behalf Of JoAnne
> Maenpaa
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 5:54 AM
> To: 'Dave'
> Cc: amsat-bb@?????.???
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Dobbler file
>
> Perhaps these messages from the amsat-bb from a few weeks ago might offer
> a starting point?
>
> https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2018-October/069839.html
> https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2018-November/070451.html
>
> --
> 73 de JoAnne K9JKM
> k9jkm@?????.???
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???? On Behalf Of Dave
> > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 7:40 AM
> > To: James McIrvin
> > Cc: amsat-bb@?????.???
> > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Dobbler file
> >
> > I?m not sure if you received a private response but I have a similar
> issue.
> > I tried to use SatPC32 the other day and found many of the satellite
> > frequencies were not correct. I?m going to have manually edit a bunch of
> > them unless I can find someone with a good set of files.
> >
> > Dave
> > N2OA
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 08:28:34 -0600
From: <k5oe@???.???>
To: <robert@?????.???>, <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Cheap rotator setup
Message-ID: <001c01d49870$4abee2d0$e03ca870$@???.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Robert,
Nice piece of work! Thanks for sharing all of it in such great (and easy to
replicate) detail. I just wanted to add some comments on (the debate about)
antenna pointing angle for LEOs... based on many (too many?) years of
chasing states, countries, grids, etc.: it may all depend on your own
particular situation AND goals (i.e., there is no one magic
formula/solution/design for everyone).
The single biggest factor (after getting past HOAs, partner objections, and
fear of heights) is: can you see the horizon unobstructed by building and
foliage? If trees are a problem, are they deciduous... so possibly not an
issue in winter? If you do have blockage, Bob's (WB4APR) recommendation of
pointing the antennas at 15 degrees above the blockage is pragmatic and well
proven. Read no further.
If, however, you are lucky enough to see the horizon, you might consider
pointing your antennas directly at it. This gives you maximum gain from the
antenna AND maximum ground gain (you will know it when you hear it,
typically under 5 degrees) when the satellite is the farthest from you,
giving you brief access to the farthest/hardest/most rare states, countries,
and grids. I can't count the number of rare grids I have snagged at -1 and
-2 degrees (yes, negative, over-the-horizon) just as the downlink faded!
The null you may/will experience directly overhead is very brief and only on
passes typically above 75 degrees. Those contacts are the easy ones anyway.
One final word: if you have worked everyone within near-LEO range and you
ONLY want those at your horizon, orient (regardless of pointing angle) your
antennas at horizontal (flat) to maximize your ground gain potential. There
is practically no ground gain on vertical polarization, and you lose half if
you orient your antenna at 45 degrees. You will only hear below-the-horizon
signals with horizontal polarization.
73,
Jerry, K5OE
Satellite WAS/DXCC/VUCC 1,000
-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???> On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 11:56 PM
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Cheap rotator setup
Hi Eli,
I am the author of that webpage you're using for a guide for your own set
up. I humbly appreciate that you have chosen the page for some guidance -
that page is one of the Top 5 pages at my site so lots of folks have
successfully used it. Several of them have been pushing me to submit this to
QST as an article which I may do (my last one was exactly
30 years ago - so it may be time for the next one.)
::::::::::::::::::::::::
Note that I extensively edited the web page today so I genuinely am seeking
additional help from all to help make this page even better and to give it
more clarity or correct any technical errors - especially before I submit
the page info to QST....
::::::::::::::::::::::::
Eli, as a result of your question, I just added the below info to the web
page - along with a slider that shows 31 new photos that give more details
and a detailed diagram of the antenna's beamwidth....check out the page for
more info since those cannot be shown here...but for those who don't want to
look, here is a highlight quote from the page to hopefully answer Eli's
question.
--------------------------------------
?Why Are You Using a 45? Angle for Fixed Elevation Instead of the
Recommended 15???
I thought I had better add a comment as to why I am obviously using a 45?
angle instead of the recommended 15?.
I am personally surrounded by RF eating 65 foot trees and a RF eating
two-story house. As a consequence, I chose to move the A430S10 50? antenna
beamwidth (see below) and center them on a fixed 45? instead of 15?.
Ostensibly, I would lose coverage from 0? to 20? (45? center angle minus
half of the 50? beamwidth of the antennas, or 25? = 20? ) by doing this ?
but I?m going to lose those angles (and then some) anyway because of the
tree and house QRM.
Trust me when I tell you that trees and houses do a damnably good job of
blocking RF at satellite frequencies ? in my case below 30? in summer and
22? in winter! (This is going to be one of my next videos on my YouTube
channel at http://Youtube.com/K3RRR.)
Beamwidth is loosely defined as the width of the main lobe of radiation for
both transmit and receive. This is a whole discussion by itself but for my
cheapie antenna system, you?re better off with a wide beamwidth versus a
more narrow beamwidth for your antennas. The following diagram from Diamond
Antennas shows the comparison of what that width of the main lobe looks like
with my orange arrows showing where they cross the
3 db points.
If you kinda sorta extrapolate, you can see that an imaginary line from the
3 db intersection point to the outer circle would translate to about 25?
either side of the zero mark ? for a total spread from both sides equal to
about 50? of beamwidth. (The other chart shows the same info for Diamond?s
bigger brother the A430S15 ? 15 elements instead of 10.
you can see how much narrower the beamwidth is albeit with not that much
difference in gain.)
In more technical terms, the A430S10 has an E-Plane 3 dB Beamwidth = 50
degrees. In layman?s language, this means that you will have a good receive
AND transmit signal 25? above and 25? below your center angle ? which in my
case is 45? due to the constraints of Home Depot.
Home Depot?
I picked 45? because Home Depot sells PVC connectors for that angle ? and
only that angle since 90? angles really are not that useful for the hamsats!
Again, with these antennas having a 50? beamwidth, my setup handled passes
between 20? and 70?. This same wide beamwidth also makes pointing the
antenna more forgiving ? which is important for cheap rotators which are not
all that accurate between calibrations.
(The E-Plane 3 dB Beamwidth = a whopping 95 degrees for the A144S5 two meter
five element Yagi ? so it was not the limiting consideration.)
But enough about me and why I chose 45?. Let?s talk about you and your need
for 15?.
Permanently Bending Schedule 40 PVC With My Wife?s Help
I need to plagiarize myself and steal a couple of paragraphs I have on this
other webpage on my site:
Attic AMSAT Antenna ? Working the Ham Radio Satellites With A Rotatable,
Computer Controlled, Yagi Attic Antenna
?If you have played with PVC for antennas for a while you will already know
they don?t make 15? connectors. So, I was faced with trying to bend a
straight piece PVC ? which I thought was going to be difficult.
?As it turns out, it is surprisingly trivial to heat even Schedule 40 PVC so
that it becomes bendable with a standard 1500 watt hair dryer in less than
10 minutes of your time! (Thanks to YouTube for this education!)?
Wife Jan?s hair dryer actually had some attachments and gizmos which focused
the heat better than mine so I swiped hers for this task. She was
surprisingly unamused and recommended I get a heat gun for future
applications. I obediently followed her recommendation and got this
particular heat gun.
Something about briar patches came to mind for some reason ? even though
there was no mention in the Amazon description.
--------------------------------------
Eli, I have just now added the above information to the cheap antenna page ?
I appreciate the heads up on helping make this clearer for other folks too.
Hope this helps...and hope to work you on the birds soon!
73,
Robert K3RRR
-.- ...-- .-. .-. .-.
73 de Robert K3RRR
http://K3RRR.com
@?????????
http://YouTube.com/K3RRR
-.- ...-- .-. .-. .-.
On 12/17/2018 6:37 PM, Eli Caul wrote:
> Hi folks -
>
> In my ongoing effort to figure out how to use the SSB satellites, I
duplicated this setup over the weekend:
>
> http://k3rrr.com/cheap-computer-controlled-tv-rotor-for-amsat-satellit
> es-and-includes-free-satellite-tracking-with-pstrotator-and-the-usb-ui
> rt/
>
> I bought a list of materials based on the photograph, and it didn't occur
to me that the PVC parts pictured put the antennas at approximately 45
degrees and not the recommended 15 degrees.
>
> Has anyone done this setup? If so, how did you assemble it so that the
antennas ended up at the recommended angle?
>
> There were a couple of higher angle passes yesterday (one was at 50
degrees) but so far I haven't been able to 'loop' the satellite. I'm using
a Yaesu FT-991A for uplink and an Airspy SDR on the downlink.
>
> Advice appreciated. So far I've gotten some excellent advice from AMSAT
members and I really appreciate the groups level of expertise and patience
with my fundamental questions.
>
> 73 de KK6ZHZ,
>
> - Eli Caul
>
> Director of Customer Care
> Sonic
> 707-237-6201 Direct
> 707-521-0131 Faxline
>
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all
interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 10:27:40 -0500
From: Robert <robert@?????.???>
To: k5oe@???.???? amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Cheap rotator setup
Message-ID: <6af66c13-1e6b-816e-06ec-6efea39a7444@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Jerry,
Those are all such great points that I would like to add, with your
consent, most of your comments to the same page.
When we lived 100 yards from the shore of the Gulf of Mexico in
Clearwater Beach, I often saw the same results with my Elk standing on
my high rise balcony where i could very often operate below the horizon
based on the tracking programs.
Backing up to a forest like I do now v. a straight ocean view has a
major impact on operating sats. You heard it here first. In my case,
Bob's, WB4APR, recommendations are moot since I have an 18' telescoping
mast in a forest of 65' trees meaning even in winter that I need 22
degrees just to hear and work any bird...so I miss from almost all
compass points the ability to follow Bob's excellent advice...and it is
killing me - especially on all points west as shown by my VUCC and WAS
lists...
Thanks, again, for the great comments and suggestions, Jerry!
73,
Robert
?-.- ...-- .-. .-. .-.
73 de Robert K3RRR
http://K3RRR.com
@?????????
http://YouTube.com/K3RRR
-.- ...-- .-. .-. .-.
On 12/20/2018 9:28 AM, k5oe@???.??? wrote:
> Robert,
> Nice piece of work! Thanks for sharing all of it in such great (and easy
to replicate) detail. I just wanted to add some comments on (the debate
about) antenna pointing angle for LEOs... based on many (too many?) years of
chasing states, countries, grids, etc.: it may all depend on your own
particular situation AND goals (i.e., there is no one magic
formula/solution/design for everyone).
>
> The single biggest factor (after getting past HOAs, partner objections,
and fear of heights) is: can you see the horizon unobstructed by building
and foliage? If trees are a problem, are they deciduous... so possibly not
an issue in winter? If you do have blockage, Bob's (WB4APR) recommendation
of pointing the antennas at 15 degrees above the blockage is pragmatic and
well proven. Read no further.
>
> If, however, you are lucky enough to see the horizon, you might consider
pointing your antennas directly at it. This gives you maximum gain from the
antenna AND maximum ground gain (you will know it when you hear it,
typically under 5 degrees) when the satellite is the farthest from you,
giving you brief access to the farthest/hardest/most rare states, countries,
and grids. I can't count the number of rare grids I have snagged at -1 and
-2 degrees (yes, negative, over-the-horizon) just as the downlink faded!
The null you may/will experience directly overhead is very brief and only on
passes typically above 75 degrees. Those contacts are the easy ones anyway.
>
> One final word: if you have worked everyone within near-LEO range and you
ONLY want those at your horizon, orient (regardless of pointing angle) your
antennas at horizontal (flat) to maximize your ground gain potential. There
is practically no ground gain on vertical polarization, and you lose half if
you orient your antenna at 45 degrees. You will only hear below-the-horizon
signals with horizontal polarization.
>
> 73,
> Jerry, K5OE
> Satellite WAS/DXCC/VUCC 1,000
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???> On Behalf Of Robert
> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 11:56 PM
> To: amsat-bb@?????.???
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Cheap rotator setup
>
> Hi Eli,
>
> I am the author of that webpage you're using for a guide for your own set
up. I humbly appreciate that you have chosen the page for some guidance -
that page is one of the Top 5 pages at my site so lots of folks have
successfully used it. Several of them have been pushing me to submit this to
QST as an article which I may do (my last one was exactly
> 30 years ago - so it may be time for the next one.)
>
> ::::::::::::::::::::::::
> Note that I extensively edited the web page today so I genuinely am
seeking additional help from all to help make this page even better and to
give it more clarity or correct any technical errors - especially before I
submit the page info to QST....
> ::::::::::::::::::::::::
>
> Eli, as a result of your question, I just added the below info to the web
page - along with a slider that shows 31 new photos that give more details
and a detailed diagram of the antenna's beamwidth....check out the page for
more info since those cannot be shown here...but for those who don't want to
look, here is a highlight quote from the page to hopefully answer Eli's
question.
>
> --------------------------------------
>
> ?Why Are You Using a 45? Angle for Fixed Elevation Instead of the
Recommended 15???
>
> I thought I had better add a comment as to why I am obviously using a 45?
angle instead of the recommended 15?.
>
> I am personally surrounded by RF eating 65 foot trees and a RF eating
two-story house. As a consequence, I chose to move the A430S10 50? antenna
beamwidth (see below) and center them on a fixed 45? instead of 15?.
>
> Ostensibly, I would lose coverage from 0? to 20? (45? center angle minus
half of the 50? beamwidth of the antennas, or 25? = 20? ) by doing this ?
but I?m going to lose those angles (and then some) anyway because of the
tree and house QRM.
>
> Trust me when I tell you that trees and houses do a damnably good job of
blocking RF at satellite frequencies ? in my case below 30? in summer and
22? in winter! (This is going to be one of my next videos on my YouTube
channel at http://Youtube.com/K3RRR.)
>
> Beamwidth is loosely defined as the width of the main lobe of radiation
for both transmit and receive. This is a whole discussion by itself but for
my cheapie antenna system, you?re better off with a wide beamwidth versus a
more narrow beamwidth for your antennas. The following diagram from Diamond
Antennas shows the comparison of what that width of the main lobe looks like
with my orange arrows showing where they cross the
> 3 db points.
>
> If you kinda sorta extrapolate, you can see that an imaginary line from
the 3 db intersection point to the outer circle would translate to about 25?
either side of the zero mark ? for a total spread from both sides equal to
about 50? of beamwidth. (The other chart shows the same info for Diamond?s
bigger brother the A430S15 ? 15 elements instead of 10.
> you can see how much narrower the beamwidth is albeit with not that much
difference in gain.)
>
> In more technical terms, the A430S10 has an E-Plane 3 dB Beamwidth = 50
degrees. In layman?s language, this means that you will have a good receive
AND transmit signal 25? above and 25? below your center angle ? which in my
case is 45? due to the constraints of Home Depot.
>
> Home Depot?
>
> I picked 45? because Home Depot sells PVC connectors for that angle ? and
only that angle since 90? angles really are not that useful for the hamsats!
>
> Again, with these antennas having a 50? beamwidth, my setup handled passes
between 20? and 70?. This same wide beamwidth also makes pointing the
antenna more forgiving ? which is important for cheap rotators which are not
all that accurate between calibrations.
>
> (The E-Plane 3 dB Beamwidth = a whopping 95 degrees for the A144S5 two
meter five element Yagi ? so it was not the limiting consideration.)
>
> But enough about me and why I chose 45?. Let?s talk about you and your
need for 15?.
>
> Permanently Bending Schedule 40 PVC With My Wife?s Help
>
> I need to plagiarize myself and steal a couple of paragraphs I have on
this other webpage on my site:
>
> Attic AMSAT Antenna ? Working the Ham Radio Satellites With A Rotatable,
Computer Controlled, Yagi Attic Antenna
>
> ?If you have played with PVC for antennas for a while you will already
know they don?t make 15? connectors. So, I was faced with trying to bend a
straight piece PVC ? which I thought was going to be difficult.
>
> ?As it turns out, it is surprisingly trivial to heat even Schedule 40 PVC
so that it becomes bendable with a standard 1500 watt hair dryer in less
than 10 minutes of your time! (Thanks to YouTube for this education!)?
>
> Wife Jan?s hair dryer actually had some attachments and gizmos which
focused the heat better than mine so I swiped hers for this task. She was
surprisingly unamused and recommended I get a heat gun for future
applications. I obediently followed her recommendation and got this
particular heat gun.
>
> Something about briar patches came to mind for some reason ? even though
there was no mention in the Amazon description.
>
> --------------------------------------
>
> Eli, I have just now added the above information to the cheap antenna page
? I appreciate the heads up on helping make this clearer for other folks too.
>
> Hope this helps...and hope to work you on the birds soon!
>
> 73,
>
> Robert K3RRR
>
> -.- ...-- .-. .-. .-.
> 73 de Robert K3RRR
> http://K3RRR.com
> @?????????
> http://YouTube.com/K3RRR
> -.- ...-- .-. .-. .-.
>
> On 12/17/2018 6:37 PM, Eli Caul wrote:
>> Hi folks -
>>
>> In my ongoing effort to figure out how to use the SSB satellites, I
duplicated this setup over the weekend:
>>
>> http://k3rrr.com/cheap-computer-controlled-tv-rotor-for-amsat-satellit
>> es-and-includes-free-satellite-tracking-with-pstrotator-and-the-usb-ui
>> rt/
>>
>> I bought a list of materials based on the photograph, and it didn't
occur to me that the PVC parts pictured put the antennas at approximately 45
degrees and not the recommended 15 degrees.
>>
>> Has anyone done this setup? If so, how did you assemble it so that the
antennas ended up at the recommended angle?
>>
>> There were a couple of higher angle passes yesterday (one was at 50
degrees) but so far I haven't been able to 'loop' the satellite. I'm using
a Yaesu FT-991A for uplink and an Airspy SDR on the downlink.
>>
>> Advice appreciated. So far I've gotten some excellent advice from AMSAT
members and I really appreciate the groups level of expertise and patience
with my fundamental questions.
>>
>> 73 de KK6ZHZ,
>>
>> - Eli Caul
>>
>> Director of Customer Care
>> Sonic
>> 707-237-6201 Direct
>> 707-521-0131 Faxline
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to
all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 13, Issue 430
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