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CX2SA > SATDIG 15.05.19 19:23l 660 Lines 23139 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : AMSATBB14194
Read: GUEST
Subj: AMSAT-BB-digest V14 194
Path: IW8PGT<CX2SA
Sent: 190515/1722Z @:CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM #:6059 [Salto] FBB7.00e $:AMSATBB14194
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. fcd pro + (Nick Pugh)
2. W7D Rove Out West (David Swanson)
3. CJ7EWK/3 road trip update (Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
4. Re: fcd pro + (Zach Metzinger)
5. Re: fcd pro + (Jerry Buxton)
6. Re: fcd pro + (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
7. Re: fcd pro + (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
8. Re: fcd pro + (Hans BX2ABT)
9. Re: fcd pro + (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
10. Re: fcd pro + (Hans BX2ABT)
11. Re: fcd pro + (Zach Metzinger)
12. Office Closed (Martha)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 14 May 2019 05:04:49 -0500
From: "Nick Pugh" <quadpugh@?????????.???>
To: <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] fcd pro +
Message-ID: <1948101d50a3c$7883d980$698b8c80$@?????????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
My FCD Pro+ is broken how do I get it fixed?
Where can I get a schematic?
nick
Cell 337 258 2527
Helping UL become a world Class Engineering and Educational School
Disagree I Learn
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 14 May 2019 11:53:23 +0100
From: David Swanson <dave@?????????????.???>
To: "<,amsat-bb@?????.???????? <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] W7D Rove Out West
Message-ID:
<CANq+eyW0zVJQ+RMi68gDnyNirPaiRemiT=Hpi3cybRGYbOzJTw@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hey Sat Ops,
Wyatt, AC0RA, and myself will be roving out across the great basin from
June 7-15, 2019 thru a bunch of rare grids in DN and DM land. The details
(maps, routes, comm paths) are available here:
http://druidnetworks.com/W7D_Chasers_Guide.pdf for anyone interested.
This rove is primarily going to be a 6m expedition - but we'll also have a
couple arrows with us, and plan to activate the squares on the birds too.
Catch you on the air!
-Dave, KG5CCI
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 14 May 2019 04:34:07 +0000
From: "Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)" <amsat-bb@??????.???>
To: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] CJ7EWK/3 road trip update
Message-ID:
<CAN6TEUd-wWSFsLy7FU2d2FCExdSP2Hj5Q3GD4ZtiHMfxPhn8-g@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hi!
After spending Sunday at Point Pelee National Park, the
southernmost point on the Canadian mainland in grid EN81, I
made it up to Toronto this afternoon. I made a stop to visit
Pierre VE3KTB, one of the VY0ERC crew who worked satellites
from the Canadian Arctic. Had lunch with him, too. Great
guy! After that, I made it to the traffic of Canada's largest
city. I was able to work some SO-50 and AO-92 passes from
the FN03/FN04 grid boundary in Aurora, Ontario - north of
Toronto. Not much radio today, but it helped to make Monday
a (mostly) driving day.
Tentative plans for Tuesday... probably staying around Toronto.
I may be able to return to the FN03/FN04 grid boundary for
some daytime passes. I probably won't leave the Toronto area
until the evening. I'm looking to get into grid FN14 either
Tuesday evening or Wednesday morning for passes, as that grid
is still one that appears to be in demand. Please follow my
@?????? Twitter feed, or visit http://twitter.com/WD9EWK for
updates. APRS is working up here in Ontario, so you can also
see where I'm going at http://aprs.fi/WD9EWK-9 in a web
browser.
73!
Patrick CJ7EWK/3 - Newmarket, Ontario
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @?????? or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 14 May 2019 19:36:56 -0500
From: Zach Metzinger <zmetzing@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] fcd pro +
Message-ID: <0be0b4b0-3cdc-e200-7433-70b136474030@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 05/14/19 05:04, Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> My FCD Pro+ is broken how do I get it fixed?
> Where can I get a schematic?
Hello Nick,
Howard Long, G6LVB, hasn't made a post on the funcubedongle.com website
in ~4 years. He does not respond to comments on that website regarding
the USB bugs in the FCDP+, so I don't think he'll be very responsive to
broken hardware/schematic requests, either.
Appealing directly to AMSAT-UK may have some effect.
I believe that the secrecy surrounding this dongle stems from the NDA-ed
silicon tuner and a desire to keep it from being cloned.
It is unfortunate that such a wonderful gadget is both closed source and
closed hardware.
--- Zach
N0ZGO
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 14 May 2019 22:51:18 -0500
From: Jerry Buxton <n0jy@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] fcd pro +
Message-ID: <c8154304-b397-a0ef-a750-f33802a249e9@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Well, my FCD Pro (before +) broke a few years ago and I decided I'd just
buy a PRO+ to replace it.? I figured that at least some of the money
goes to the FUNcube satellite projects and we're all in this together,
so why not support each other.? And the new and better FCD Pro+ I got
supported the Fox-1 program because it sure got a heckuva lot of use in
testing those babies!
Jerry Buxton, N?JY
On 5/14/2019 05:04, Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> My FCD Pro+ is broken how do I get it fixed?
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 14:27:47 +0100
From: "Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL)" <peter@????????.??.??>
To: Zach Metzinger <zmetzing@?????.???>
Cc: Amsat <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] fcd pro +
Message-ID:
<CAFvUairpt5JCLa2Gym8gxQwn1fe5FCgzxzq6vjNTZado1mkmRA@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I'd guess that the first place to get support would be to email
Hanlincrest Ltd (Howard) who makes and supports the Funcube Dongle
email being g6lvb@?????.???? I don't think rewriting a comment on his
website is how anyone should expect to get support.
Most commercial products don't provide schematic or access to firmware
code but for some reason, some of the ham radio community seems to
think they should be handed it.
73,
Peter, 2M0SQL
On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 01:37, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> On 05/14/19 05:04, Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > My FCD Pro+ is broken how do I get it fixed?
> > Where can I get a schematic?
>
> Hello Nick,
>
> Howard Long, G6LVB, hasn't made a post on the funcubedongle.com website
> in ~4 years. He does not respond to comments on that website regarding
> the USB bugs in the FCDP+, so I don't think he'll be very responsive to
> broken hardware/schematic requests, either.
>
> Appealing directly to AMSAT-UK may have some effect.
>
> I believe that the secrecy surrounding this dongle stems from the NDA-ed
> silicon tuner and a desire to keep it from being cloned.
>
> It is unfortunate that such a wonderful gadget is both closed source and
> closed hardware.
>
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 14:32:27 +0100
From: "Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL)" <peter@????????.??.??>
To: Zach Metzinger <zmetzing@?????.???>
Cc: Amsat <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] fcd pro +
Message-ID:
<CAFvUaiqnturcmdR31yhRLhBJ-K9uLRVbr7QMwFfUVD17+fRn9w@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I should also point out that there's a contact form on the shop for
Hanlincrest Ltd at
https://funcubedongle.3dcartstores.com/crm.asp?action=contactus plus
their full contact information.
73,
Peter, 2M0SQL
On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 01:37, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> On 05/14/19 05:04, Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > My FCD Pro+ is broken how do I get it fixed?
> > Where can I get a schematic?
>
> Hello Nick,
>
> Howard Long, G6LVB, hasn't made a post on the funcubedongle.com website
> in ~4 years. He does not respond to comments on that website regarding
> the USB bugs in the FCDP+, so I don't think he'll be very responsive to
> broken hardware/schematic requests, either.
>
> Appealing directly to AMSAT-UK may have some effect.
>
> I believe that the secrecy surrounding this dongle stems from the NDA-ed
> silicon tuner and a desire to keep it from being cloned.
>
> It is unfortunate that such a wonderful gadget is both closed source and
> closed hardware.
>
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 21:47:15 +0800
From: Hans BX2ABT <hans.bx2abt@???.?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] fcd pro +
Message-ID: <fa7b95fa-2ffc-d11d-9e1a-30816a50f801@???.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
The trend is to keep everything under lid and a secret and not share
source code or schematics. You might agree with this, but when I spend
money to buy something I own it and I want the right to repair and that
means documentation. It used to be like that, because I can easily
repair my old ham rigs from ICOM and Kenwood because they provide this
kind of information. And yes, if there is no documentation then I will
steer clear of buying that product or other products from that company.
Thanks for the heads-up: will never buy a FCD+, that's for sure.
Hans
BX2ABT
On 05/15/2019 09:27 PM, Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I'd guess that the first place to get support would be to email
> Hanlincrest Ltd (Howard) who makes and supports the Funcube Dongle
> email being g6lvb@?????.???? I don't think rewriting a comment on his
> website is how anyone should expect to get support.
>
> Most commercial products don't provide schematic or access to firmware
> code but for some reason, some of the ham radio community seems to
> think they should be handed it.
>
> 73,
>
> Peter, 2M0SQL
>
> On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 01:37, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>> On 05/14/19 05:04, Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>>> My FCD Pro+ is broken how do I get it fixed?
>>> Where can I get a schematic?
>> Hello Nick,
>>
>> Howard Long, G6LVB, hasn't made a post on the funcubedongle.com website
>> in ~4 years. He does not respond to comments on that website regarding
>> the USB bugs in the FCDP+, so I don't think he'll be very responsive to
>> broken hardware/schematic requests, either.
>>
>> Appealing directly to AMSAT-UK may have some effect.
>>
>> I believe that the secrecy surrounding this dongle stems from the NDA-ed
>> silicon tuner and a desire to keep it from being cloned.
>>
>> It is unfortunate that such a wonderful gadget is both closed source and
>> closed hardware.
>>
>> --- Zach
>> N0ZGO
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 15:24:12 +0100
From: "Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL)" <peter@????????.??.??>
To: Hans BX2ABT <hans.bx2abt@???.?????.???>
Cc: Amsat <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] fcd pro +
Message-ID:
<CAFvUaiqjgN1RY9sasF5j0T_zuLYTYGzK++EY3dUMFS5JhGLdLg@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Think you jumped to conclusions Hans I didn't say I agreed with
anything I pointed out the fact, no access to repair has been stopped
you can open the case? I know ICOM/Kenwood don't provide the source
code, most electronics companies don't that's just how it is.
Peter.
On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 14:48, Hans BX2ABT via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> The trend is to keep everything under lid and a secret and not share
> source code or schematics. You might agree with this, but when I spend
> money to buy something I own it and I want the right to repair and that
> means documentation. It used to be like that, because I can easily
> repair my old ham rigs from ICOM and Kenwood because they provide this
> kind of information. And yes, if there is no documentation then I will
> steer clear of buying that product or other products from that company.
> Thanks for the heads-up: will never buy a FCD+, that's for sure.
>
> Hans
>
> BX2ABT
>
>
> On 05/15/2019 09:27 PM, Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > I'd guess that the first place to get support would be to email
> > Hanlincrest Ltd (Howard) who makes and supports the Funcube Dongle
> > email being g6lvb@?????.???? I don't think rewriting a comment on his
> > website is how anyone should expect to get support.
> >
> > Most commercial products don't provide schematic or access to firmware
> > code but for some reason, some of the ham radio community seems to
> > think they should be handed it.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Peter, 2M0SQL
> >
> > On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 01:37, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB
> > <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >> On 05/14/19 05:04, Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> >>> My FCD Pro+ is broken how do I get it fixed?
> >>> Where can I get a schematic?
> >> Hello Nick,
> >>
> >> Howard Long, G6LVB, hasn't made a post on the funcubedongle.com website
> >> in ~4 years. He does not respond to comments on that website regarding
> >> the USB bugs in the FCDP+, so I don't think he'll be very responsive to
> >> broken hardware/schematic requests, either.
> >>
> >> Appealing directly to AMSAT-UK may have some effect.
> >>
> >> I believe that the secrecy surrounding this dongle stems from the NDA-ed
> >> silicon tuner and a desire to keep it from being cloned.
> >>
> >> It is unfortunate that such a wonderful gadget is both closed source and
> >> closed hardware.
> >>
> >> --- Zach
> >> N0ZGO
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 22:54:26 +0800
From: Hans BX2ABT <hans.bx2abt@???.?????.???>
To: peter@??????.???
Cc: Amsat <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] fcd pro +
Message-ID: <d5c03396-7110-cad7-c6c6-77396342363b@???.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
You can open a case, but with proprietary components, designs and code
little repair can be done. Chuck it in the bin and buy another. I come
from a different era, where designs were documented and repairs could be
done by oneself or independent repair men. Products had a value that
spanned more than a few years.
So yes, I am one of those in the ham community that thinks schematics
and code should be "handed to me" (paraphrased from what you wrote
below) when I request it. I know this goes against the interests of
companies putting out products and nowadays it seems companies have more
might than consumers, so the companies win, the consumer loses.
But I agree with you that comments on this BB will not help with repairs
or support in any way.
73 de Hans
BX2ABT
On 05/15/2019 10:24 PM, Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) wrote:
> Think you jumped to conclusions Hans I didn't say I agreed with
> anything I pointed out the fact, no access to repair has been stopped
> you can open the case? I know ICOM/Kenwood don't provide the source
> code, most electronics companies don't that's just how it is.
>
> Peter.
>
> On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 14:48, Hans BX2ABT via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>> The trend is to keep everything under lid and a secret and not share
>> source code or schematics. You might agree with this, but when I spend
>> money to buy something I own it and I want the right to repair and that
>> means documentation. It used to be like that, because I can easily
>> repair my old ham rigs from ICOM and Kenwood because they provide this
>> kind of information. And yes, if there is no documentation then I will
>> steer clear of buying that product or other products from that company.
>> Thanks for the heads-up: will never buy a FCD+, that's for sure.
>>
>> Hans
>>
>> BX2ABT
>>
>>
>> On 05/15/2019 09:27 PM, Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>>> I'd guess that the first place to get support would be to email
>>> Hanlincrest Ltd (Howard) who makes and supports the Funcube Dongle
>>> email being g6lvb@?????.???? I don't think rewriting a comment on his
>>> website is how anyone should expect to get support.
>>>
>>> Most commercial products don't provide schematic or access to firmware
>>> code but for some reason, some of the ham radio community seems to
>>> think they should be handed it.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Peter, 2M0SQL
>>>
>>> On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 01:37, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB
>>> <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>>> On 05/14/19 05:04, Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>>>>> My FCD Pro+ is broken how do I get it fixed?
>>>>> Where can I get a schematic?
>>>> Hello Nick,
>>>>
>>>> Howard Long, G6LVB, hasn't made a post on the funcubedongle.com website
>>>> in ~4 years. He does not respond to comments on that website regarding
>>>> the USB bugs in the FCDP+, so I don't think he'll be very responsive to
>>>> broken hardware/schematic requests, either.
>>>>
>>>> Appealing directly to AMSAT-UK may have some effect.
>>>>
>>>> I believe that the secrecy surrounding this dongle stems from the NDA-ed
>>>> silicon tuner and a desire to keep it from being cloned.
>>>>
>>>> It is unfortunate that such a wonderful gadget is both closed source and
>>>> closed hardware.
>>>>
>>>> --- Zach
>>>> N0ZGO
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of AMSAT-NA.
>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
>>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 10:41:07 -0500
From: Zach Metzinger <zmetzing@?????.???>
To: peter@??????.???
Cc: Amsat <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] fcd pro +
Message-ID: <ebf6103d-02ef-ca63-26b5-c27899f279eb@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 2019-05-15 08:27, Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) wrote:
> I'd guess that the first place to get support would be to email
> Hanlincrest Ltd (Howard) who makes and supports the Funcube Dongle
> email being g6lvb@?????.???? I don't think rewriting a comment on his
> website is how anyone should expect to get support.
Already tried, more than a year ago. No response.
--- Zach
N0ZGO
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 13:18:33 -0400
From: Martha <martha@?????.???>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Office Closed
Message-ID:
<CAPk0USy_UkVrgEbhsUAz0EkJn+xCdis56_KVA44=fh9G9BkdsQ@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
The AMSAT Office is closed from Thursday, May 16 - Monday, May 20th. Hope
to see many of you at the Xenia Hamcation.
--
73- Martha
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 14, Issue 194
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