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CX2SA > SATDIG 09.09.19 21:02l 1054 Lines 43848 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Space Center Abandoned Dish Rehabilitation - Outreach #1
(Robert MacHale)
2. Re: Space Center Abandoned Dish Rehabilitation - Outreach #1
(KC9SGV)
3. Re: Space Center Abandoned Dish Rehabilitation - Outreach #1
(Greg D)
4. OSCAR-1 Schematic (Mike Diehl)
5. Re: OSCAR-1 Schematic (Paul Stoetzer)
6. PSAT2-1 DTMF CQ#68 (KE6BLR Robert)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 17:07:50 +0000 (UTC)
From: Robert MacHale <robert.machale@?????.???>
To: John Kludt <johnnykludt@?????.???>
Cc: amsat-bb <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Space Center Abandoned Dish Rehabilitation -
Outreach #1
Message-ID: <4922089.5855687.1565888870873@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Nice! It even reports the movement on the Az/El for each dish. I love it.
73
Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://spaceCommunicator.club/aprs?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
On Wednesday, August 14, 2019, 3:34:55 PM PDT, John Kludt
<johnnykludt@?????.???> wrote:
Robert,
Not that it is something we could fix but really like this site:
https://eyes.nasa.gov/dsn/dsn.html?
It lets you real time observe what Canberra, Madrid and Goldstone are
doing.? Fascinating to watch.
I don't recall the name of the site in North Carolina that has the
rejuvenated dishes.? But a ham friend of mine took a tour and it is pretty
cool stuff.? Unfortunately they are not much used because according to them
these old dishes are very expensive to operate.? Must be kind of like buying
a horse - the real money gets spent not when you buy the horse but over the
next twenty years as you pay to maintain the trusty steed!
John
On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 6:22 PM Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
Wow! Fun project. Very exciting.
Any chance there are also antique antennas at the California ground station
at Goldstone. Nasa had three primary ground stations for Apollo: Spain,
Australia, and California.
https://www.gdscc.nasa.gov/?
73
Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.?http://spaceCommunicator.club/aprs?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
? ? On Wednesday, August 14, 2019, 2:54:16 PM PDT, Daniel Cussen via
AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:?
?I would recommend trying to find out if the motors are AC or DC or some
weird voltage or stepper or servo type. If you can get the motors to move,
position feedback could be added with a simple potentiometer from a belt,
or a fancy encoder. It may be possible to use the old position feedback,
but it may be faster and easier to mount something on the outside that
gives the same result.
In terms of frequency ranges,? rate of tracking, dish beam width, these
will determine what it could be used for, and assuming you use the old
motors and the reflector on the dish is designed for vhf?, then this would
limit top frequency and maximum tracking ability aligned with beam width.
Say vhf, UHF lower microwave, and presumably the dish could track low earth
orbit or moon bounce.
Looking at the photos it looks like the right middle connector is an n type
coax connector for the feed. I assume the military type connectors are for
position feedback from some sort of rotary or absolute encoder. Often there
is an encoder mounted near or on the motor, which is AC or DC simple motor.
If the manual movement cranks work you could run belts to them and mount
new motors on the outside. Speed might be limited, but acceptable.
I would recommend adding hardware limit switches no matter what you do to
ensure the dish can never rotate too far and damage itself. It may have
limit switches inside, but they may need replacing and external switches
would be easier to service.
It would be great if this could track low earth orbit and receive school
contacts from the iss and cubesats on vhf and UHF.
I would like to see it receive 2395MHz Hamtv from the ISS, which is
relatively strong and easy to receive.
On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 22:11 Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???
wrote:
> A group of GNU Radio community members has permission to evaluate a dish
> installation in Huntsville, AL near the Space Center. If you've ever been
> to the Space Center (where the Saturn V is suspended from the ceiling) then
> this dish is right outside the main entrance. Anyone attending Symposium
> last year should recognize it!
>
> Here's a set of photos:
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1d_Oi3hrIi49JxmaoNuUA-pvUXOs7vSz1
>
> We're looking for technical information, identification of what you
> recognize in the photos, recommended next steps, and what to watch out for,
> prioritize, or avoid. We already know we want to take the paint off all the
> ID plates and see what's under there.
>
> We want to see if we can get this working for *amateur radio operators to
> access over the internet*, ideally with a GNU Radio flowgraph to control it
> from an SDR. Our priority is to make this work for amateur satellite.
>
> This type of setup is similar to what GNU Radio Foundation is working on
> with the Allen Telescope Array. We have the go-ahead from the Space Center
> curator to do this study and make recommendations.
>
> I have fully restored several basket-case British sports cars and then
> successfully raced them. My other team members have restored things even
> more challenging. We are not dumb, naive, or easily deterred. We know this
> may turn out to be something that requires way more work than we can do in
> any time frame we can manage. Documenting that is still of great value, and
> that is why we are asking for your help. Right now, no one knows much of
> anything about it. This sort of installation, if available for amateur
> radio, is well worth the effort.
>
> Some of the people involved have been driving past this installation for 20
> years and want to see it back in service at whatever level we can achieve.
> It will be discussed at GNU Radio Conference, and everyone at the
> conference will have the opportunity to see it up close and in person,
> since it's literally across the parking lot from the venue.
>
> Want to attend or find out more about GRCon?
> https://www.gnuradio.org/grcon/grcon19/
>
> If you know of someone off-list that might know details that will help,
> then please pass this along!
>
> -Michelle W5NYV + Corps of Operation Flashlight
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 11:38:03 -0700
From: KC9SGV <kc9sgv@?????.???>
To: Zach Leffke <zleffke@??.???>
Cc: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Space Center Abandoned Dish Rehabilitation -
Outreach #1
Message-ID: <FE62C2CC-2F36-47ED-9734-CCBDBAC09DD5@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Like Zach's Idea 2.
This promotional stuff is important.
The aviation industry does this to ensure future employee availability.
Invite kids into the cockpit on the ground, where parents can take a picture
with kid sitting on a pilot seat while being wowed by the switches and
screens.
The kid gets handed a set of plastic wings....
Future pilot.
Bernard,
KC9SGV
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 14, 2019, at 9:49 PM, Zach Leffke via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
>
> I don't mind throwing out a few ideas, even if its beyond salvaging...its
fun to think of ideas and potential use cases for these kinds of
things.......(hobbies are for fun right?)......
>
> For those interested, looks like this is the one: 34.711786, -86.653985
(copy/paste into google maps). Not this one: 34.711070, -86.654875 (had me
distracted for a bit...that also maybe looks like its no longer in use with
better southerly views?)
>
> Idea 1: GEO TT&C and/or Gateway?
>
> If we get a GEO bird, ~20ft/6m aperture could be useful as a (maybe
backup?) command station for the 5/10 GHz strategy. Or alternatively a
'gateway' of sorts for user traffic (again maybe backup)?
>
> For this specific antenna, if we can get a view of the GEO belt over the
buildings to the south, could be feasible. I agree with Bob that the
blockage looks pretty significant to the south, but the 3D google street
view make it look 'not so bad' for GEO maybe (thats a pretty big
maybe....perspectives could be skewed in that view though, and its hard to
concentrate when looking at an SR-71 in front of you and the Saturn V to the
right).
>
> For a GEO use case....would have to consider:
>
> 1. Can we see the GEO belt at all?
>
> 2. at 5 and 10 GHz we're talking sub 1 deg beamwidth. For a non
geostationary bird, that means peaking up. If the motor drives (if they
exist) can't keep up with a LEO bird, perhaps they could keep up with the
'figure-8' of a slightly drifting geosynchronous bird with a bit of
inclination (few degrees of az/el over a sidereal day.....sort of like
furlongs per fortnight). If there are no motors at all, and we have a
geostationary bird, and we have a view of it, maybe it could be 're-parked'
to point at the bird (even a drifting bird coming in and out of the main
beam could be useful/fun)....maybe that 'crank wheel' has something to do
with manual control?
>
> 3. Feed would have to be replaced (obviously).
>
> 4. As it looks like it was originally for VHF or UHF, might want to
confirm the mesh is usable at microwave freqs (not sure of the mesh size
from the pictures).
>
> 5. concerns about high power 5 GHz TX RF at a place heavy with general
public traffic? Concerns about proximity to Marshall Spaceflight Center and
potential 5 GHz Radars nearby (limiting our ability to TX, not RX......I've
heard of similar issues for ionospheric work and restrictions in the
area...but that was down at HF)? If so maybe a downlink only station?
>
> Idea 2: maybe the more important/valuable one?
>
> Technical matters aside for a second.....having an active (even if
remotely controlled, and even if with degraded performance, restricted field
of view, etc.) antenna operated by Hams in the US Space and Rocket Center
can only be a good thing in terms of public outreach and raising awareness
for Amateur Radio in general (and maybe AMSAT/GNU Radio more specifically),
whether its being used for EME, Satellite, maybe balloon tracking, or
whatever? Our own 'live' Ham Radio exhibit, at a pretty big NASA museum,
with a lot of foot traffic......thats gotta be good for 'business' right?
>
> Imagine you are 10 and are interested in Space. Your parents are taking
you to see rockets in Huntsville...you are walking around looking a lot of
'not moving, but still really cool' things.......and out of the corner of
your eye, that 'HUGE' dish starts moving around (way bigger than the one on
your house that never moves.....super cool). So you run over and start
reading the plaque....and realize its being used for Space Stuff RIGHT
NOW!!!!.......and theres this thing called Amateur Radio (plaque says
so).........'Mom/Dad...whats Amateur Radio? can I do Amateur Radio.....is
this like the Ham thing uncle so and so is always talking about........'
BAM, the next Hiram Percy Maxim.........thats a win right? That
kid......first boot on Mars.....and it alllll started when he took a trip
with his parents and saw a dish moving around......(OK, maybe a
stretch.....but still).
>
> Also..instead of plaque....maybe weather proof spectrum displays? Maybe
some kind of audio......Maybe something like the 'pulse of exploration' from
JPL DSN (more like a technical art exhibit, google it, pretty cool)......and
if not outside for that stuff.....maybe a small area inside with a view out
of the front windows of the dish?
>
> So I guess what I'm saying is that getting a 5 or 6m dish and refurbishing
it in your back yard might not be impossible, and its probably easier than
dealing with the 'woes' of this particular dish, and it would probably
perform better for whatever the application.......getting a 6m dish active
for Hams at a pretty high traffic NASA museum......for the community, that
might be priceless (and worth the 'woes' of this particular dish, something
about beggars and choosers.......).
>
>
> -Zach, KJ4QLP
>
> P.S. the site in NC that was mentioned in a previous post is called the
Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute, aka PARI.
>
> --
> Research Associate
> Aerospace Systems Lab
> Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
> Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
> Work Phone: 540-231-4174
> Cell Phone: 540-808-6305
>
>> On 8/14/19 11:45 PM, W3AB/GEO via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> Everyone, please chill.
>>
>> As I asked before, has it been "surplused"? Everything stripped from it.
No one even knows what "model" it is and who made it. Plus what is on board.
Speculation is really worthless compared to facts.
>>
>> Just like the rocket on display; anyone think it'll ever fly again?
>>
>> And, here is an example of another "opportunity" that fell apart. I
shared this as well.
>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamesburg_Earth_Station
>>
>> ?___
>> Sent from my two way wrist watch
>> 73 de W3AB/GEO?
>>
>>> On Aug 14, 2019, 18:49, at 18:49, Robert Bruninga via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>> EME seems most practical...
>> >From the shadows, it looks like it is on the north side of the building
>>> and has SERIOUS blockage to the east and west through south maybe as
>>> high
>>> as 40 degrees or more. Then trees block the North and NE. About the
>>> only
>>> sky it can see is NW?
>>>
>>> Since LEO's spend 70% of their time in view below about 22 degrees, My
>>> guess is that this dish could only see about 10% of all possible pass
>>> times?
>>>
>>> But EME is high most of the time. And easy to schedule around times of
>>> high passes for a club station at a museum. Also would be a high
>>> interest
>>> item and things MOVE SLOWLY!
>>>
>>> If it is rusted frozen, then the EASY way out is to point it roughly
>>> south
>>> some how. And then wait for the moon to pass through its field of
>>> view.
>>> Hummh, lets say using the 2m feed the beamwidth is 5 degrees and the
>>> moon
>>> goes 180 degrees in 12 hours. Then its in view (3dB) maybe 20 minutes
>>> at
>>> a time?
>>>
>>> Then to improve the number of days, one could add another dipole above
>>> and
>>> below the existing one and then pick up additional passes without
>>> having
>>> to move the dish. Or easier, just nutate the feed up and down. Then
>>> you
>>> could get a moon pass every day.
>>>
>>> You could predict and post a schedule of when people could make
>>> contacts.?
>>>
>>> Just playing with ideas...
>>>
>>> Zooming in with google earth in 3d you can stand ANYWHERE and almost
>>> see
>>> the same views as the excellent ones alrady posted. But walk around
>>> and
>>> fine tune them. Amazing...
>>>
>>> Bob, WB4APR
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???> On Behalf Of John Kludt via
>>> AMSAT-BB
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 9:25 PM
>>> To: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle@?????.???>
>>> Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
>>> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Space Center Abandoned Dish Rehabilitation -
>>> Outreach #1
>>>
>>> Michelle,
>>>
>>> So help me understand - what is the problem we are trying to solve?
>>> Let's
>>> play this out, we somehow get our hands on a surplus dish and we fix
>>> it
>>> up. I will skip over the part of the story that deals with annual
>>> maintenance costs and ongoing operational costs every time we fire it
>>> up
>>> and use it. The question is, use it for what? A dish for the sake of
>>> saying, "Heh, we own a dish" - who ever "we' is - just does not make
>>> any
>>> sense.
>>>
>>> I suppose we could use it as part of a network of stations on 2.4 MHz
>>> for
>>> HamTV but that works only if the dish is part of a greater US HamTV
>>> network
>>> that does not exist right now. And it only works if the Az/El system
>>> turning the dish is a fast enough to keep up with a LEO such as the ISS
>>> -
>>> that is simple question of fact that we can discover. Other uses
>>> that
>>> would benefit the general amateur radio satellite community?
>>>
>>> While it is a cool idea at least to me it feels a bit like a solution
>>> in
>>> search of a problem. Not saying it is bad idea but I am saying so help
>>> us
>>> understand why we need a 20 foot dish owned by the amateur *satellite*
>>> community at large. The other part of me that does EME sees lots of
>>> uses
>>> but that is very different game - see HB9Q. And before we get too far
>>> down the road, I'd like to see not just acquisition and repair costs
>>> but
>>> ongoing maintenance and operations costs.
>>>
>>> Respectfully,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 5:12 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>>> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A group of GNU Radio community members has permission to evaluate a
>>>> dish installation in Huntsville, AL near the Space Center. If you've
>>>> ever been to the Space Center (where the Saturn V is suspended from
>>>> the ceiling) then this dish is right outside the main entrance.
>>> Anyone
>>>> attending Symposium last year should recognize it!
>>>>
>>>> Here's a set of photos:
>>> https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1d_Oi3hrIi49JxmaoNuUA-pvUXO
>>>> s7vSz1
>>>>
>>>> We're looking for technical information, identification of what you
>>>> recognize in the photos, recommended next steps, and what to watch
>>> out
>>>> for, prioritize, or avoid. We already know we want to take the paint
>>>> off all the ID plates and see what's under there.
>>>>
>>>> We want to see if we can get this working for *amateur radio
>>> operators
>>>> to access over the internet*, ideally with a GNU Radio flowgraph to
>>>> control it from an SDR. Our priority is to make this work for amateur
>>> satellite.
>>>> This type of setup is similar to what GNU Radio Foundation is working
>>>> on with the Allen Telescope Array. We have the go-ahead from the
>>> Space
>>>> Center curator to do this study and make recommendations.
>>>>
>>>> I have fully restored several basket-case British sports cars and
>>> then
>>>> successfully raced them. My other team members have restored things
>>>> even more challenging. We are not dumb, naive, or easily deterred. We
>>>> know this may turn out to be something that requires way more work
>>>> than we can do in any time frame we can manage. Documenting that is
>>>> still of great value, and that is why we are asking for your help.
>>>> Right now, no one knows much of anything about it. This sort of
>>>> installation, if available for amateur radio, is well worth the
>>> effort.
>>>> Some of the people involved have been driving past this installation
>>>> for 20 years and want to see it back in service at whatever level we
>>> can
>>> achieve.
>>>> It will be discussed at GNU Radio Conference, and everyone at the
>>>> conference will have the opportunity to see it up close and in
>>> person,
>>>> since it's literally across the parking lot from the venue.
>>>>
>>>> Want to attend or find out more about GRCon?
>>>> https://www.gnuradio.org/grcon/grcon19/
>>>>
>>>> If you know of someone off-list that might know details that will
>>>> help, then please pass this along!
>>>>
>>>> -Michelle W5NYV + Corps of Operation Flashlight
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
>>>> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>>> Subscription settings:
>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to
>>> all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>>> expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
>>> official
>>> views of AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>> of AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> --
> Research Associate
> Aerospace Systems Lab
> Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
> Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
> Work Phone: 540-231-4174
> Cell Phone: 540-808-6305
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 12:34:21 -0700
From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Space Center Abandoned Dish Rehabilitation -
Outreach #1
Message-ID: <db4c98af-b17c-902f-d8c8-947e210c5af1@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I was kind of thinking along the same lines... Some sort of
AMSAT-promoting exhibit. Acknowledging the potential issue with
transmitting in the area, and needing something pretty fixed to aim at,
a simple "Receiving Stuff from Space!" exhibit could be still be pretty
awesome, without needing a fully capable satellite link. Lacking a GEO
ham target, perhaps simply aiming at one of the NOAA GEO weather sats
would be sufficient. It's still radio, and seeing yourself from space,
I think, would be a great crowd pleaser. Most of the benefit would come
from exhibit signage and such, talking about Amateur Radio, AMSAT, the
history of satellites (and AMSAT's contributions), static displays of
stuff, etc.
The dish is just eye candy to get folks over to see the rest of the
display. It doesn't even have to move. Just pipe in some audio of
motors whirring from time to time, to get people's attention.
Greg KO6TH
KC9SGV via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Like Zach's Idea 2.
> This promotional stuff is important.
> The aviation industry does this to ensure future employee availability.
> Invite kids into the cockpit on the ground, where parents can take a
picture with kid sitting on a pilot seat while being wowed by the switches
and screens.
> The kid gets handed a set of plastic wings....
> Future pilot.
>
> Bernard,
> KC9SGV
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Aug 14, 2019, at 9:49 PM, Zach Leffke via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>
>> I don't mind throwing out a few ideas, even if its beyond salvaging...its
fun to think of ideas and potential use cases for these kinds of
things.......(hobbies are for fun right?)......
>>
>> For those interested, looks like this is the one: 34.711786, -86.653985
(copy/paste into google maps). Not this one: 34.711070, -86.654875 (had me
distracted for a bit...that also maybe looks like its no longer in use with
better southerly views?)
>>
>> Idea 1: GEO TT&C and/or Gateway?
>>
>> If we get a GEO bird, ~20ft/6m aperture could be useful as a (maybe
backup?) command station for the 5/10 GHz strategy. Or alternatively a
'gateway' of sorts for user traffic (again maybe backup)?
>>
>> For this specific antenna, if we can get a view of the GEO belt over the
buildings to the south, could be feasible. I agree with Bob that the
blockage looks pretty significant to the south, but the 3D google street
view make it look 'not so bad' for GEO maybe (thats a pretty big
maybe....perspectives could be skewed in that view though, and its hard to
concentrate when looking at an SR-71 in front of you and the Saturn V to the
right).
>>
>> For a GEO use case....would have to consider:
>>
>> 1. Can we see the GEO belt at all?
>>
>> 2. at 5 and 10 GHz we're talking sub 1 deg beamwidth. For a non
geostationary bird, that means peaking up. If the motor drives (if they
exist) can't keep up with a LEO bird, perhaps they could keep up with the
'figure-8' of a slightly drifting geosynchronous bird with a bit of
inclination (few degrees of az/el over a sidereal day.....sort of like
furlongs per fortnight). If there are no motors at all, and we have a
geostationary bird, and we have a view of it, maybe it could be 're-parked'
to point at the bird (even a drifting bird coming in and out of the main
beam could be useful/fun)....maybe that 'crank wheel' has something to do
with manual control?
>>
>> 3. Feed would have to be replaced (obviously).
>>
>> 4. As it looks like it was originally for VHF or UHF, might want to
confirm the mesh is usable at microwave freqs (not sure of the mesh size
from the pictures).
>>
>> 5. concerns about high power 5 GHz TX RF at a place heavy with general
public traffic? Concerns about proximity to Marshall Spaceflight Center and
potential 5 GHz Radars nearby (limiting our ability to TX, not RX......I've
heard of similar issues for ionospheric work and restrictions in the
area...but that was down at HF)? If so maybe a downlink only station?
>>
>> Idea 2: maybe the more important/valuable one?
>>
>> Technical matters aside for a second.....having an active (even if
remotely controlled, and even if with degraded performance, restricted field
of view, etc.) antenna operated by Hams in the US Space and Rocket Center
can only be a good thing in terms of public outreach and raising awareness
for Amateur Radio in general (and maybe AMSAT/GNU Radio more specifically),
whether its being used for EME, Satellite, maybe balloon tracking, or
whatever? Our own 'live' Ham Radio exhibit, at a pretty big NASA museum,
with a lot of foot traffic......thats gotta be good for 'business' right?
>>
>> Imagine you are 10 and are interested in Space. Your parents are taking
you to see rockets in Huntsville...you are walking around looking a lot of
'not moving, but still really cool' things.......and out of the corner of
your eye, that 'HUGE' dish starts moving around (way bigger than the one on
your house that never moves.....super cool). So you run over and start
reading the plaque....and realize its being used for Space Stuff RIGHT
NOW!!!!.......and theres this thing called Amateur Radio (plaque says
so).........'Mom/Dad...whats Amateur Radio? can I do Amateur Radio.....is
this like the Ham thing uncle so and so is always talking about........'
BAM, the next Hiram Percy Maxim.........thats a win right? That
kid......first boot on Mars.....and it alllll started when he took a trip
with his parents and saw a dish moving around......(OK, maybe a
stretch.....but still).
>>
>> Also..instead of plaque....maybe weather proof spectrum displays? Maybe
some kind of audio......Maybe something like the 'pulse of exploration' from
JPL DSN (more like a technical art exhibit, google it, pretty cool)......and
if not outside for that stuff.....maybe a small area inside with a view out
of the front windows of the dish?
>>
>> So I guess what I'm saying is that getting a 5 or 6m dish and
refurbishing it in your back yard might not be impossible, and its probably
easier than dealing with the 'woes' of this particular dish, and it would
probably perform better for whatever the application.......getting a 6m dish
active for Hams at a pretty high traffic NASA museum......for the community,
that might be priceless (and worth the 'woes' of this particular dish,
something about beggars and choosers.......).
>>
>>
>> -Zach, KJ4QLP
>>
>> P.S. the site in NC that was mentioned in a previous post is called the
Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute, aka PARI.
>>
>> --
>> Research Associate
>> Aerospace Systems Lab
>> Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
>> Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
>> Work Phone: 540-231-4174
>> Cell Phone: 540-808-6305
>>
>>> On 8/14/19 11:45 PM, W3AB/GEO via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>>> Everyone, please chill.
>>>
>>> As I asked before, has it been "surplused"? Everything stripped from it.
No one even knows what "model" it is and who made it. Plus what is on board.
Speculation is really worthless compared to facts.
>>>
>>> Just like the rocket on display; anyone think it'll ever fly again?
>>>
>>> And, here is an example of another "opportunity" that fell apart. I
shared this as well.
>>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamesburg_Earth_Station
>>>
>>> ?___
>>> Sent from my two way wrist watch
>>> 73 de W3AB/GEO?
>>>
>>>> On Aug 14, 2019, 18:49, at 18:49, Robert Bruninga via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>>> EME seems most practical...
>>> >From the shadows, it looks like it is on the north side of the building
>>>> and has SERIOUS blockage to the east and west through south maybe as
>>>> high
>>>> as 40 degrees or more. Then trees block the North and NE. About the
>>>> only
>>>> sky it can see is NW?
>>>>
>>>> Since LEO's spend 70% of their time in view below about 22 degrees, My
>>>> guess is that this dish could only see about 10% of all possible pass
>>>> times?
>>>>
>>>> But EME is high most of the time. And easy to schedule around times of
>>>> high passes for a club station at a museum. Also would be a high
>>>> interest
>>>> item and things MOVE SLOWLY!
>>>>
>>>> If it is rusted frozen, then the EASY way out is to point it roughly
>>>> south
>>>> some how. And then wait for the moon to pass through its field of
>>>> view.
>>>> Hummh, lets say using the 2m feed the beamwidth is 5 degrees and the
>>>> moon
>>>> goes 180 degrees in 12 hours. Then its in view (3dB) maybe 20 minutes
>>>> at
>>>> a time?
>>>>
>>>> Then to improve the number of days, one could add another dipole above
>>>> and
>>>> below the existing one and then pick up additional passes without
>>>> having
>>>> to move the dish. Or easier, just nutate the feed up and down. Then
>>>> you
>>>> could get a moon pass every day.
>>>>
>>>> You could predict and post a schedule of when people could make
>>>> contacts.?
>>>>
>>>> Just playing with ideas...
>>>>
>>>> Zooming in with google earth in 3d you can stand ANYWHERE and almost
>>>> see
>>>> the same views as the excellent ones alrady posted. But walk around
>>>> and
>>>> fine tune them. Amazing...
>>>>
>>>> Bob, WB4APR
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???> On Behalf Of John Kludt via
>>>> AMSAT-BB
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 9:25 PM
>>>> To: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle@?????.???>
>>>> Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
>>>> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Space Center Abandoned Dish Rehabilitation -
>>>> Outreach #1
>>>>
>>>> Michelle,
>>>>
>>>> So help me understand - what is the problem we are trying to solve?
>>>> Let's
>>>> play this out, we somehow get our hands on a surplus dish and we fix
>>>> it
>>>> up. I will skip over the part of the story that deals with annual
>>>> maintenance costs and ongoing operational costs every time we fire it
>>>> up
>>>> and use it. The question is, use it for what? A dish for the sake of
>>>> saying, "Heh, we own a dish" - who ever "we' is - just does not make
>>>> any
>>>> sense.
>>>>
>>>> I suppose we could use it as part of a network of stations on 2.4 MHz
>>>> for
>>>> HamTV but that works only if the dish is part of a greater US HamTV
>>>> network
>>>> that does not exist right now. And it only works if the Az/El system
>>>> turning the dish is a fast enough to keep up with a LEO such as the ISS
>>>> -
>>>> that is simple question of fact that we can discover. Other uses
>>>> that
>>>> would benefit the general amateur radio satellite community?
>>>>
>>>> While it is a cool idea at least to me it feels a bit like a solution
>>>> in
>>>> search of a problem. Not saying it is bad idea but I am saying so help
>>>> us
>>>> understand why we need a 20 foot dish owned by the amateur *satellite*
>>>> community at large. The other part of me that does EME sees lots of
>>>> uses
>>>> but that is very different game - see HB9Q. And before we get too far
>>>> down the road, I'd like to see not just acquisition and repair costs
>>>> but
>>>> ongoing maintenance and operations costs.
>>>>
>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 5:12 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>>>> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A group of GNU Radio community members has permission to evaluate a
>>>>> dish installation in Huntsville, AL near the Space Center. If you've
>>>>> ever been to the Space Center (where the Saturn V is suspended from
>>>>> the ceiling) then this dish is right outside the main entrance.
>>>> Anyone
>>>>> attending Symposium last year should recognize it!
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's a set of photos:
>>>> https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1d_Oi3hrIi49JxmaoNuUA-pvUXO
>>>>> s7vSz1
>>>>>
>>>>> We're looking for technical information, identification of what you
>>>>> recognize in the photos, recommended next steps, and what to watch
>>>> out
>>>>> for, prioritize, or avoid. We already know we want to take the paint
>>>>> off all the ID plates and see what's under there.
>>>>>
>>>>> We want to see if we can get this working for *amateur radio
>>>> operators
>>>>> to access over the internet*, ideally with a GNU Radio flowgraph to
>>>>> control it from an SDR. Our priority is to make this work for amateur
>>>> satellite.
>>>>> This type of setup is similar to what GNU Radio Foundation is working
>>>>> on with the Allen Telescope Array. We have the go-ahead from the
>>>> Space
>>>>> Center curator to do this study and make recommendations.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have fully restored several basket-case British sports cars and
>>>> then
>>>>> successfully raced them. My other team members have restored things
>>>>> even more challenging. We are not dumb, naive, or easily deterred. We
>>>>> know this may turn out to be something that requires way more work
>>>>> than we can do in any time frame we can manage. Documenting that is
>>>>> still of great value, and that is why we are asking for your help.
>>>>> Right now, no one knows much of anything about it. This sort of
>>>>> installation, if available for amateur radio, is well worth the
>>>> effort.
>>>>> Some of the people involved have been driving past this installation
>>>>> for 20 years and want to see it back in service at whatever level we
>>>> can
>>>> achieve.
>>>>> It will be discussed at GNU Radio Conference, and everyone at the
>>>>> conference will have the opportunity to see it up close and in
>>>> person,
>>>>> since it's literally across the parking lot from the venue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Want to attend or find out more about GRCon?
>>>>> https://www.gnuradio.org/grcon/grcon19/
>>>>>
>>>>> If you know of someone off-list that might know details that will
>>>>> help, then please pass this along!
>>>>>
>>>>> -Michelle W5NYV + Corps of Operation Flashlight
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>>> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
>>>>> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> program!
>>>>> Subscription settings:
>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>> to
>>>> all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>>>> expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
>>>> official
>>>> views of AMSAT-NA.
>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> program!
>>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> Opinions expressed
>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>>> of AMSAT-NA.
>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> program!
>>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> --
>> Research Associate
>> Aerospace Systems Lab
>> Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
>> Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
>> Work Phone: 540-231-4174
>> Cell Phone: 540-808-6305
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 16:04:52 -0400
From: Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a@?????.???>
To: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] OSCAR-1 Schematic
Message-ID: <60149827-DE11-40FC-B4AE-A6821CAAEB8A@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Does anyone know of or have a copy of the schematic for OSCAR-1? Google
hasn?t turned up anything useful.
73,
Mike Diehl
W8LID/VE6LID
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 16:10:14 -0400
From: Paul Stoetzer <n8hm@????.???>
To: Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] OSCAR-1 Schematic
Message-ID:
<CABzOSOo6FH-NFeS2XiwcLAvuA-4RfMbPEb9pb7i9m__KshtD8A@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
The transmitter schematic is available in the February 1962 issue of
QST (direct link for ARRL members at
http://p1k.arrl.org/pubs_archive/46290). Unfortunately, the digital
keying circuit is omitted from the schematic as "the transmitter keyer
makes use of digital circuits which may not be familiar to many
amateurs." (at least in 1962...)
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 4:05 PM Mike Diehl via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of or have a copy of the schematic for OSCAR-1? Google
hasn?t turned up anything useful.
>
> 73,
> Mike Diehl
> W8LID/VE6LID
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 13:16:07 -0700
From: KE6BLR Robert <ke6blr.robert@?????.???>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] PSAT2-1 DTMF CQ#68
Message-ID:
<CABaTVVaJG+pjkBQcTxmB09TJkFi3CO59D9kB=Jg-5_amUXq0Wg@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
The PSAT2-1 pass last night came up to 50 degrees here in Southern
California; this is my first successful DTMF contact with both the voice
response TTS on 148.980 MHz and APRS packet on 145.825 MHz using the Yeasu
FT2DR.
I am not running doppler offsets nor Az/El motor; so this was a single shot
at the top of the pass.
Here is a picture of the packet on my radio since the SatGates did not
share this with APRS-IS:
https://twitter.com/MachaleRobert/status/1162091769263038464?s=20
My callsign is listed on the summary beacon page which renders the last 9
callsigns heard by PSAT-1 DTMF:
http://www.spacecommunicator.club/dtmf/
I wish it had also made it to the individual packet page:
http://www.aprsat.com/dtmf
But, there appears to be an issue with the SatGates in my area not iGating
these new DTMF packets.
73
RM
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 14, Issue 317
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