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CX2SA > SATDIG 09.09.19 21:02l 993 Lines 40742 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US (Michelle Thompson)
2. Re: Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US (KC9SGV)
3. Re: Wrong grid exchanged - ND0C/VE6 - 21 Aug (christy hunter)
4. Re: Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
5. Re: Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US (David Swanson)
6. Re: Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US (KC9SGV)
7. Re: Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US (Mike Diehl)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 05:36:00 -0700
From: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle@?????.???>
To: Ev Tupis <w2ev@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US
Message-ID:
<CACvjz2WnF5MPuDSNsd9Qrk=4+=f5C6wNwze8KGagXqNafzQnew@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Many excellent questions and comments!
I wanted to get the update out before I left for desert camping. I?ll be
offline until 3rd September.
Uplink Requirements from Echostar have been outlined to me, but detailed
discussions on how independent we can get have not yet been held. Worst
case it?s their modem in an aggregator, multiple uplinks would have to been
carefully coordinated (or scheduled).
Good opportunity for some dynamic spectrum sharing or automation work.
It may be clunky starting out but ?gets the job done?; then we identify
improvements and implement them.
This is indeed much more restrictive than the ham-only 4B (Virginia Tech,
they have renewed their search for a launch) and Phase 4 Space (ORI, in
development and actively fundraising). But, this is a relatively
inexpensive way to test and learn a lot of new things.
We have 4 years until end of life of Echostar9. That is more than the
guaranteed mission time for WFOV ended up being at the end of that
rideshare offer. For an order of magnitude less money.
If there is a serious show stopper in here somewhere, then we fully
document and move on. There?s lots going on out there and you never know
when an opportunity might pop up. Huge thanks needs to go to the positive
and proactive ham that found this opportunity and pursued it. Doug Phelps
deserves the credit here.
I?m just here to remove roadblocks.
More in September! Very much looking forward to autumn.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 04:43 Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
>
> You're asking the wrong person, Sancho (lol). I was restating Michelle's
> potentially very exciting opportunity using different words to see if I
> understood it.
>
> Let's wait on her reply. I haven't seen it yet.
>
> Ev
>
> On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 7:29:09 AM EDT, John Kludt via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> Ev,
>
> But the aggregator can't uplink directly to the satellite as the uplink is
> outside of the amateur bands. So the aggregator must send everything to an
> earth station with a commercial license, correct?
>
> Would the aggregator be single channel or work more like a linear
> transponder sending along multiple signals in mixed modes at once?
>
> Unless I am wrong, the aggregator must be colocated with the commercial
> earth station or we are back into Internet required land thereby decreasing
> the encomm utility of this effort.
>
> Sancho
>
> Sent from my Verizon Motorola Smartphone
> On Aug 21, 2019 22:34, Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Michelle,
> > What a fascinating opportunity. I'd like to try to describe this using
> different words to see if I get it.
> > Echostar 9 is a geosynchronous satellite with 1 MHz of spectrum to sell.
> > Both the up and down frequencies are outside of the amateur bands.
> > To use it, an aggregator is needed. An aggregator is a "bridge" device
> that converts amateur-band RF to satellite uplink RF and setellite downlink
> RF to amateur-band RF.
> > Amateurs simply need to be in range of an aggregator. It is the
> aggregators responsibility to remain aimed at the satellite.
> >
> > The aggregator determines if it will bridge FM or Linear (SSB, CW,
> PSK31, etc.) modes.
> > Is this right?
> > Regards,Ev, W2EV
> >
> > On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 9:38:12 PM EDT, Michelle Thompson via
> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> > An arrangement on Echostar9 for 1MHz of bandwidth for up to 4 years of
> > USA+Mexico+Canada coverage is on offer for $2000 a month.
> >
> > I'm putting together a grant proposal for ARRL, FEMA, and others to pay
> for
> > at least year of access. I've gotten some positive feedback already. I
> > think we can make this happen with some fundraising effort. I'm willing
> to
> > provide the human resources and whatever incidental financing needs to
> > happen to secure a grant for rental.
> >
> > The main purpose of this type of system would be to enable field
> deployment
> > of "legacy mode" aggregators, like the Phase 4 Ground ARAP (Amateur Radio
> > Access Point). This is where traffic on any ham band, using FM or analog
> > gear, is digitized by a local "collecting" repeater, and is then sent to
> a
> > satellite from that repeater. FEMA and ARRL have expressed a lot of
> > interest and support for this in the past. Phase 4 Ground needs an ARAP
> in
> > order to support legacy radios.
> >
> > You don't have to personally have a microwave digital uplink. The
> > aggregator equipment does that part for you.
> >
> > This is most useful for public service and emergency communications. A
> > communications emergency is declared, someone (FEMA, Red Cross, motivated
> > ham volunteer) drops in the aggregator, and all ham traffic it hears is
> > sent to the satellite and then transmitted to the entire footprint.
> >
> > The downlink is 12-14GHz. This is not 10GHz, but is receivable by
> > individuals using very inexpensive gear. Traffic can be repeated over the
> > internet.
> >
> > What does this get us?
> >
> > An opportunity to do all the R&D for the aggregator and get some
> experience
> > with uplinks.
> >
> > What do we not have?
> >
> > A true ham band downlink. You can still receive the downlink yourself, or
> > you can get it over the internet from an earth station distributor.
> >
> > That's where we're at with *this* proposal.
> >
> > I think it's worth it to provide a US-based way to design, deploy, test,
> > and use real world aggregator equipment. We learn a lot about GEO comms
> and
> > figure out a lot of the ins and outs.
> >
> > Comment and critique welcome and encouraged.
> >
> > More soon!
> > -Michelle W5NYV
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
--
-Michelle W5NYV
"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 08:07:50 -0500
From: KC9SGV <kc9sgv@?????.???>
To: John Kludt <johnnykludt@?????.???>
Cc: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US
Message-ID: <33329FB9-6D9E-4821-A1CF-E7959131EE1D@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Grrrr..
Replies to the list via email with pictures attached get wiped !
We need a modern BB or forum like AMSAT-DL....
Here goes to the BB list again without pictures:
We could go RF HF or VHF into the aggregator like we do into Echolink nodes.
The aggregator then send the signal via commercial RF into the satellite.
Of course, this signal will be degraded by HF multi path and VHF distance
constraints.
Still an Emcomm use here.
Or, we could forego the Emcomm utility, use the Internet, and go into the
aggregator via Echolink audio (computer to computer) or even use Skype, like
in the early days of remote HF station use.
Of course we could also use the gold standard audio of the free RCForb
remote HF station software as found on www.remotehams.com
A R&D use here.
KC9SGV
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 22, 2019, at 7:01 AM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@?????.???> wrote:
>
> We could go RF HF or VHF into the aggregator like we do into Echolink nodes.
> The aggregator then send the signal via commercial RF into the satellite.
> Of course, this signal will be degraded by HF multi path and VHF distance
constraints.
> Still an Emcomm use here.
>
> Or, we could forego the Emcomm utility, use the Internet, and go into the
aggregator via Echolink audio (computer to computer) or even use Skype, like
in the early days of remote HF station use.
> Of course we could also use the gold standard audio of the free RCForb
remote HF station software as found on www.remotehams.com
> A R&D use here.
> Like this :
> <image1.PNG>
>
>
> Bernard,
> KC9SGV
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Aug 22, 2019, at 6:25 AM, John Kludt via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
>>
>> Ev,
>>
>> But the aggregator can't uplink directly to the satellite as the uplink
is outside of the amateur bands. So the aggregator must send everything to
an earth station with a commercial license, correct?
>>
>> Would the aggregator be single channel or work more like a linear
transponder sending along multiple signals in mixed modes at once?
>>
>> Unless I am wrong, the aggregator must be colocated with the commercial
earth station or we are back into Internet required land thereby decreasing
the encomm utility of this effort.
>>
>> Sancho
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon Motorola Smartphone
>>> On Aug 21, 2019 22:34, Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Michelle,
>>> What a fascinating opportunity. I'd like to try to describe this using
different words to see if I get it.
>>> Echostar 9 is a geosynchronous satellite with 1 MHz of spectrum to sell.
>>> Both the up and down frequencies are outside of the amateur bands.
>>> To use it, an aggregator is needed. An aggregator is a "bridge" device
that converts amateur-band RF to satellite uplink RF and setellite downlink
RF to amateur-band RF.
>>> Amateurs simply need to be in range of an aggregator. It is the
aggregators responsibility to remain aimed at the satellite.
>>>
>>> The aggregator determines if it will bridge FM or Linear (SSB, CW,
PSK31, etc.) modes.
>>> Is this right?
>>> Regards,Ev, W2EV
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 9:38:12 PM EDT, Michelle Thompson via
AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>>
>>> An arrangement on Echostar9 for 1MHz of bandwidth for up to 4 years of
>>> USA+Mexico+Canada coverage is on offer for $2000 a month.
>>>
>>> I'm putting together a grant proposal for ARRL, FEMA, and others to pay
for
>>> at least year of access. I've gotten some positive feedback already. I
>>> think we can make this happen with some fundraising effort. I'm willing to
>>> provide the human resources and whatever incidental financing needs to
>>> happen to secure a grant for rental.
>>>
>>> The main purpose of this type of system would be to enable field
deployment
>>> of "legacy mode" aggregators, like the Phase 4 Ground ARAP (Amateur Radio
>>> Access Point). This is where traffic on any ham band, using FM or analog
>>> gear, is digitized by a local "collecting" repeater, and is then sent to a
>>> satellite from that repeater. FEMA and ARRL have expressed a lot of
>>> interest and support for this in the past. Phase 4 Ground needs an ARAP in
>>> order to support legacy radios.
>>>
>>> You don't have to personally have a microwave digital uplink. The
>>> aggregator equipment does that part for you.
>>>
>>> This is most useful for public service and emergency communications. A
>>> communications emergency is declared, someone (FEMA, Red Cross, motivated
>>> ham volunteer) drops in the aggregator, and all ham traffic it hears is
>>> sent to the satellite and then transmitted to the entire footprint.
>>>
>>> The downlink is 12-14GHz. This is not 10GHz, but is receivable by
>>> individuals using very inexpensive gear. Traffic can be repeated over the
>>> internet.
>>>
>>> What does this get us?
>>>
>>> An opportunity to do all the R&D for the aggregator and get some
experience
>>> with uplinks.
>>>
>>> What do we not have?
>>>
>>> A true ham band downlink. You can still receive the downlink yourself, or
>>> you can get it over the internet from an earth station distributor.
>>>
>>> That's where we're at with *this* proposal.
>>>
>>> I think it's worth it to provide a US-based way to design, deploy, test,
>>> and use real world aggregator equipment. We learn a lot about GEO comms
and
>>> figure out a lot of the ins and outs.
>>>
>>> Comment and critique welcome and encouraged.
>>>
>>> More soon!
>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 07:42:24 -0700
From: christy hunter <cchunter3@??????????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Wrong grid exchanged - ND0C/VE6 - 21 Aug
Message-ID: <24f03f12-80b9-d6a2-25af-e532c518b28d@??????????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Randy, don't stress out, as long as you're having fun. Thanks for
roving! its much appreciated.
73 Christy KB6LTY
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 16:04:20 +0100
From: "Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL)" <peter@????????.??.??>
To: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US
Message-ID:
<CAFvUaiq0F7YPGsd79k6B1Jk0u8noGSuhD1UHHGX823fmJxwLvw@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hi Michelle,
Excellent that they came back with the price and while the project
sounds potentially interesting it's of course, not an amateur radio
satellite, has anyone considered any risks for example, does this have
the potential to raise questions when AMSAT approaches gov/orgs for
discount launches for satellites we build that they might say that we
could just go rent some transponder space.
I know in the states disaster comms is a huge point (weirdly not
something that's pushed in Europe), but agencies could already access
this kind of technology just by purchasing sat phones, for example, I
have an iridium unit that lets me make calls and access the internet
although slowly but handy in highlands of Scotland with poor mobile
coverage.
By the sounds of this, it will be access points that then aggregate
into a central point via probably internet backhaul then its dumped up
to the satellite, to me that doesn't really feel within the ham
spirit, although I'm sure tons would argue :)
I know there's a big desire for GEO over North America, but do ops
really think this is the ultimate solution? we're talking 96000 USD
over 4 years.
Think it really requires some heavy thought before just jumping on the idea.
Just my thoughts, and I know I'm on the other side of the pond in the
QO-100 footprint.
Peter, 2M0SQL
On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 at 02:36, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> An arrangement on Echostar9 for 1MHz of bandwidth for up to 4 years of
> USA+Mexico+Canada coverage is on offer for $2000 a month.
>
> I'm putting together a grant proposal for ARRL, FEMA, and others to pay for
> at least year of access. I've gotten some positive feedback already. I
> think we can make this happen with some fundraising effort. I'm willing to
> provide the human resources and whatever incidental financing needs to
> happen to secure a grant for rental.
>
> The main purpose of this type of system would be to enable field deployment
> of "legacy mode" aggregators, like the Phase 4 Ground ARAP (Amateur Radio
> Access Point). This is where traffic on any ham band, using FM or analog
> gear, is digitized by a local "collecting" repeater, and is then sent to a
> satellite from that repeater. FEMA and ARRL have expressed a lot of
> interest and support for this in the past. Phase 4 Ground needs an ARAP in
> order to support legacy radios.
>
> You don't have to personally have a microwave digital uplink. The
> aggregator equipment does that part for you.
>
> This is most useful for public service and emergency communications. A
> communications emergency is declared, someone (FEMA, Red Cross, motivated
> ham volunteer) drops in the aggregator, and all ham traffic it hears is
> sent to the satellite and then transmitted to the entire footprint.
>
> The downlink is 12-14GHz. This is not 10GHz, but is receivable by
> individuals using very inexpensive gear. Traffic can be repeated over the
> internet.
>
> What does this get us?
>
> An opportunity to do all the R&D for the aggregator and get some experience
> with uplinks.
>
> What do we not have?
>
> A true ham band downlink. You can still receive the downlink yourself, or
> you can get it over the internet from an earth station distributor.
>
> That's where we're at with *this* proposal.
>
> I think it's worth it to provide a US-based way to design, deploy, test,
> and use real world aggregator equipment. We learn a lot about GEO comms and
> figure out a lot of the ins and outs.
>
> Comment and critique welcome and encouraged.
>
> More soon!
> -Michelle W5NYV
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 10:16:47 -0500
From: David Swanson <dave@?????????????.???>
To: "<,amsat-bb@?????.???????? <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US
Message-ID:
<CANq+eyWaP+4JeeLpjAZiKiydoFFxRqWW50=MZVRBPf_MgNr6AA@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
The 'last mile' segment in this proposal is amateur spectrum yes, but that
segment could also very easily be commercial or public safety spectrum as
well. Heck, with a meg of bandwidth at 10g+ on your 'backbone' you could
very easily establish a somewhat respectable packet link and then just have
your "Aggregator" be nothing more than a wifi hotspot, which opens up all
sorts of communication applications beyond simple push button HTs. If
you're truly looking at this from an EMCOMM perspective, then the primary
goal of the ESF-2 annex is 'communications infrastructure restoration' -
which is ranked higher than 'tactical communications' anyway. Why screw
with sending people with their HT's out to act as relays, when a pelican
case with a dish and a Linksys can get everyone back on the net in 5
minutes?
Therefore, I'm confused on why this is being brought up here other than
solicitation by folks who wear multiple hats. There is precisely zero
benefit to AMSAT or ARRL getting involved, and committing their scarce
resources to a project that won't benefit amateurs. No contact made thru
this proposed method will be a valid 'qso' for folks interested in that
sort of thing. No expertise or engineering will be required of the 'users'
of the system, other than to tune their device to whatever frequency the
Aggregator builders require of them. The only folks that would benefit from
such a proposal are the aggregator builders themselves, and possibly the
public - and I say possibly because commercial systems like your proposal
already exist and are in common use by organizations that respond to
disasters. For 60 bucks a week I can rent a basic Inmarsat turn key
solution, take it anywhere on the planet, and let any of the workers I'm
supporting send and receive emails while I do something productive towards
saving lives instead of mashing my PTT button 23 hours a day.
The idea is cool, but only from the perspective of the people getting to
build it. For those us who've actually been in the shit trying to help
re-establish comms after a real disaster, we've all learned once the cell
phones and internet comes back online, no one gives a crap about our
radios. The moment the Verizon truck rolls up with the 3m dish and portable
tower trailer, our work is done. The *real* use for Ham in disasters these
days is the basic idea that our gear can establish communications without
some sort of proprietary middle-hardware needed. Don't believe me? I'd be
happy to send you my graduate research paper on DPEM Applications of
Geo-Synchronous Satellites I did a few years back. There are applications
for our hobby in disasters, find some spectrum to rent on a Geo-bird that I
(or some ham in the mountains of western Puerto Rico) can use directly and
I'll be the first one to donate. Until then, for 24k a year AMSAT could
probably launch another pair of Fox's that would be *actual* amateur
satellites.
-Dave, KG5CCI
On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 8:13 AM KC9SGV via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
> Grrrr..
> Replies to the list via email with pictures attached get wiped !
> We need a modern BB or forum like AMSAT-DL....
>
> Here goes to the BB list again without pictures:
>
> We could go RF HF or VHF into the aggregator like we do into Echolink
> nodes.
> The aggregator then send the signal via commercial RF into the satellite.
> Of course, this signal will be degraded by HF multi path and VHF distance
> constraints.
> Still an Emcomm use here.
>
> Or, we could forego the Emcomm utility, use the Internet, and go into the
> aggregator via Echolink audio (computer to computer) or even use Skype,
> like in the early days of remote HF station use.
> Of course we could also use the gold standard audio of the free RCForb
> remote HF station software as found on www.remotehams.com
> A R&D use here.
>
> KC9SGV
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Aug 22, 2019, at 7:01 AM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> > We could go RF HF or VHF into the aggregator like we do into Echolink
> nodes.
> > The aggregator then send the signal via commercial RF into the satellite.
> > Of course, this signal will be degraded by HF multi path and VHF
> distance constraints.
> > Still an Emcomm use here.
> >
> > Or, we could forego the Emcomm utility, use the Internet, and go into
> the aggregator via Echolink audio (computer to computer) or even use Skype,
> like in the early days of remote HF station use.
> > Of course we could also use the gold standard audio of the free RCForb
> remote HF station software as found on www.remotehams.com
> > A R&D use here.
> > Like this :
> > <image1.PNG>
> >
> >
> > Bernard,
> > KC9SGV
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >> On Aug 22, 2019, at 6:25 AM, John Kludt via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >>
> >> Ev,
> >>
> >> But the aggregator can't uplink directly to the satellite as the uplink
> is outside of the amateur bands. So the aggregator must send everything to
> an earth station with a commercial license, correct?
> >>
> >> Would the aggregator be single channel or work more like a linear
> transponder sending along multiple signals in mixed modes at once?
> >>
> >> Unless I am wrong, the aggregator must be colocated with the commercial
> earth station or we are back into Internet required land thereby decreasing
> the encomm utility of this effort.
> >>
> >> Sancho
> >>
> >> Sent from my Verizon Motorola Smartphone
> >>> On Aug 21, 2019 22:34, Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Michelle,
> >>> What a fascinating opportunity. I'd like to try to describe this
> using different words to see if I get it.
> >>> Echostar 9 is a geosynchronous satellite with 1 MHz of spectrum to
> sell.
> >>> Both the up and down frequencies are outside of the amateur bands.
> >>> To use it, an aggregator is needed. An aggregator is a "bridge"
> device that converts amateur-band RF to satellite uplink RF and setellite
> downlink RF to amateur-band RF.
> >>> Amateurs simply need to be in range of an aggregator. It is the
> aggregators responsibility to remain aimed at the satellite.
> >>>
> >>> The aggregator determines if it will bridge FM or Linear (SSB, CW,
> PSK31, etc.) modes.
> >>> Is this right?
> >>> Regards,Ev, W2EV
> >>>
> >>> On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 9:38:12 PM EDT, Michelle Thompson
> via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> An arrangement on Echostar9 for 1MHz of bandwidth for up to 4 years of
> >>> USA+Mexico+Canada coverage is on offer for $2000 a month.
> >>>
> >>> I'm putting together a grant proposal for ARRL, FEMA, and others to
> pay for
> >>> at least year of access. I've gotten some positive feedback already. I
> >>> think we can make this happen with some fundraising effort. I'm
> willing to
> >>> provide the human resources and whatever incidental financing needs to
> >>> happen to secure a grant for rental.
> >>>
> >>> The main purpose of this type of system would be to enable field
> deployment
> >>> of "legacy mode" aggregators, like the Phase 4 Ground ARAP (Amateur
> Radio
> >>> Access Point). This is where traffic on any ham band, using FM or
> analog
> >>> gear, is digitized by a local "collecting" repeater, and is then sent
> to a
> >>> satellite from that repeater. FEMA and ARRL have expressed a lot of
> >>> interest and support for this in the past. Phase 4 Ground needs an
> ARAP in
> >>> order to support legacy radios.
> >>>
> >>> You don't have to personally have a microwave digital uplink. The
> >>> aggregator equipment does that part for you.
> >>>
> >>> This is most useful for public service and emergency communications. A
> >>> communications emergency is declared, someone (FEMA, Red Cross,
> motivated
> >>> ham volunteer) drops in the aggregator, and all ham traffic it hears is
> >>> sent to the satellite and then transmitted to the entire footprint.
> >>>
> >>> The downlink is 12-14GHz. This is not 10GHz, but is receivable by
> >>> individuals using very inexpensive gear. Traffic can be repeated over
> the
> >>> internet.
> >>>
> >>> What does this get us?
> >>>
> >>> An opportunity to do all the R&D for the aggregator and get some
> experience
> >>> with uplinks.
> >>>
> >>> What do we not have?
> >>>
> >>> A true ham band downlink. You can still receive the downlink yourself,
> or
> >>> you can get it over the internet from an earth station distributor.
> >>>
> >>> That's where we're at with *this* proposal.
> >>>
> >>> I think it's worth it to provide a US-based way to design, deploy,
> test,
> >>> and use real world aggregator equipment. We learn a lot about GEO
> comms and
> >>> figure out a lot of the ins and outs.
> >>>
> >>> Comment and critique welcome and encouraged.
> >>>
> >>> More soon!
> >>> -Michelle W5NYV
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 10:17:08 -0500
From: KC9SGV <kc9sgv@?????.???>
To: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle@?????.???>
Cc: Ground Station <ground-station@?????.????????????.?????????>,
amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US
Message-ID: <50CA7066-9185-4426-B27B-227272FC5ED6@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Echostar 9
Here she is:
32 FSS transponders in the Ku band.
120 Watt...
https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/echostar-9.htm
KC9SGV
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 21, 2019, at 8:34 PM, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> An arrangement on Echostar9 for 1MHz of bandwidth for up to 4 years of
> USA+Mexico+Canada coverage is on offer for $2000 a month.
>
> I'm putting together a grant proposal for ARRL, FEMA, and others to pay for
> at least year of access. I've gotten some positive feedback already. I
> think we can make this happen with some fundraising effort. I'm willing to
> provide the human resources and whatever incidental financing needs to
> happen to secure a grant for rental.
>
> The main purpose of this type of system would be to enable field deployment
> of "legacy mode" aggregators, like the Phase 4 Ground ARAP (Amateur Radio
> Access Point). This is where traffic on any ham band, using FM or analog
> gear, is digitized by a local "collecting" repeater, and is then sent to a
> satellite from that repeater. FEMA and ARRL have expressed a lot of
> interest and support for this in the past. Phase 4 Ground needs an ARAP in
> order to support legacy radios.
>
> You don't have to personally have a microwave digital uplink. The
> aggregator equipment does that part for you.
>
> This is most useful for public service and emergency communications. A
> communications emergency is declared, someone (FEMA, Red Cross, motivated
> ham volunteer) drops in the aggregator, and all ham traffic it hears is
> sent to the satellite and then transmitted to the entire footprint.
>
> The downlink is 12-14GHz. This is not 10GHz, but is receivable by
> individuals using very inexpensive gear. Traffic can be repeated over the
> internet.
>
> What does this get us?
>
> An opportunity to do all the R&D for the aggregator and get some experience
> with uplinks.
>
> What do we not have?
>
> A true ham band downlink. You can still receive the downlink yourself, or
> you can get it over the internet from an earth station distributor.
>
> That's where we're at with *this* proposal.
>
> I think it's worth it to provide a US-based way to design, deploy, test,
> and use real world aggregator equipment. We learn a lot about GEO comms and
> figure out a lot of the ins and outs.
>
> Comment and critique welcome and encouraged.
>
> More soon!
> -Michelle W5NYV
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 11:27:08 -0400
From: Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a@?????.???>
To: peter@??????.???? "Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL)" <peter@????????.??.??>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US
Message-ID: <787BAC97-1503-4186-A944-9769FCC273E0@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I had similar thoughts as well, Peter. I would also like to point out that
we are always at risk of losing our spectrum to commercial interests because
we?re not using it. It seems counterproductive to turn around and rent
bandwidth on commercial bands further justifying their need to take our bands.
73,
Mike Diehl
W8LID/VE6LID
> On Aug 22, 2019, at 11:12, Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> ?Hi Michelle,
>
> Excellent that they came back with the price and while the project
> sounds potentially interesting it's of course, not an amateur radio
> satellite, has anyone considered any risks for example, does this have
> the potential to raise questions when AMSAT approaches gov/orgs for
> discount launches for satellites we build that they might say that we
> could just go rent some transponder space.
>
> I know in the states disaster comms is a huge point (weirdly not
> something that's pushed in Europe), but agencies could already access
> this kind of technology just by purchasing sat phones, for example, I
> have an iridium unit that lets me make calls and access the internet
> although slowly but handy in highlands of Scotland with poor mobile
> coverage.
>
> By the sounds of this, it will be access points that then aggregate
> into a central point via probably internet backhaul then its dumped up
> to the satellite, to me that doesn't really feel within the ham
> spirit, although I'm sure tons would argue :)
>
> I know there's a big desire for GEO over North America, but do ops
> really think this is the ultimate solution? we're talking 96000 USD
> over 4 years.
>
> Think it really requires some heavy thought before just jumping on the idea.
>
> Just my thoughts, and I know I'm on the other side of the pond in the
> QO-100 footprint.
>
> Peter, 2M0SQL
>
>> On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 at 02:36, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB
>> <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>
>> An arrangement on Echostar9 for 1MHz of bandwidth for up to 4 years of
>> USA+Mexico+Canada coverage is on offer for $2000 a month.
>>
>> I'm putting together a grant proposal for ARRL, FEMA, and others to pay for
>> at least year of access. I've gotten some positive feedback already. I
>> think we can make this happen with some fundraising effort. I'm willing to
>> provide the human resources and whatever incidental financing needs to
>> happen to secure a grant for rental.
>>
>> The main purpose of this type of system would be to enable field deployment
>> of "legacy mode" aggregators, like the Phase 4 Ground ARAP (Amateur Radio
>> Access Point). This is where traffic on any ham band, using FM or analog
>> gear, is digitized by a local "collecting" repeater, and is then sent to a
>> satellite from that repeater. FEMA and ARRL have expressed a lot of
>> interest and support for this in the past. Phase 4 Ground needs an ARAP in
>> order to support legacy radios.
>>
>> You don't have to personally have a microwave digital uplink. The
>> aggregator equipment does that part for you.
>>
>> This is most useful for public service and emergency communications. A
>> communications emergency is declared, someone (FEMA, Red Cross, motivated
>> ham volunteer) drops in the aggregator, and all ham traffic it hears is
>> sent to the satellite and then transmitted to the entire footprint.
>>
>> The downlink is 12-14GHz. This is not 10GHz, but is receivable by
>> individuals using very inexpensive gear. Traffic can be repeated over the
>> internet.
>>
>> What does this get us?
>>
>> An opportunity to do all the R&D for the aggregator and get some experience
>> with uplinks.
>>
>> What do we not have?
>>
>> A true ham band downlink. You can still receive the downlink yourself, or
>> you can get it over the internet from an earth station distributor.
>>
>> That's where we're at with *this* proposal.
>>
>> I think it's worth it to provide a US-based way to design, deploy, test,
>> and use real world aggregator equipment. We learn a lot about GEO comms and
>> figure out a lot of the ins and outs.
>>
>> Comment and critique welcome and encouraged.
>>
>> More soon!
>> -Michelle W5NYV
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 14, Issue 323
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