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CX2SA > SATDIG 09.09.19 21:03l 909 Lines 34956 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US (John Brier)
2. Re: Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US (Joe)
3. Re: Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US (Zach Metzinger)
4. Re: Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US (JoAnne K9JKM)
5. Re: Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US (John Brier)
6. Re: Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US (KC9SGV)
7. Disaster (Scott Millick)
8. Re: Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US (John Brier)
9. Va. Tech Launch help [was: Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US]
(Ev Tupis)
10. ARISS funding (Zach Metzinger)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 12:15:01 -0400
From: John Brier <johnbrier@?????.???>
To: KC9SGV <kc9sgv@?????.???>
Cc: Ground Station <ground-station@?????.????????????.?????????>,
AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US
Message-ID:
<CALn0fKOVRqMtPCQa_1NhfWyYNEKVq+ZyF24QaHdhCe1rico6bg@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I personally don't like using amateur radio infrastructure that
partially depends on the internet, but there are a lot of hams that
don't care and think it's quite cool. Look at Echolink and IRLP, which
have been around for a long time. I believe the newer DMR and D-Star
protocols have internet capability too, and they seem to be even more
popular than Echolink ever was.
I don't know about the cost, but if this was made available to hams
I'm sure there would be a lot of people interested because a lot of
people find it exciting to hear their voice relayed from space. Maybe
people that find manual LEO tracking too difficult would try this
instead. Also, I know when QO-100 came online I heard that a lot of
former HEO sat ops who were no longer active started cropping up on
its passband.
I do see the argument that it could be good practice for a future all
ham band GEO sat. Actually, there are a lot of people on QO-100 who
uplink directly but use WebSDR to receive the downlink. I imagine they
eventually want to do it all RF, I sure would, but that proves that it
is good practice. This proposal may not have a downlink in ham bands
but that personally wouldn't bother me, as long as I get to hear my
signal come down over RF. Lots of hams are into SWL outside of ham
bands for the same reason they are interested in RF on ham bands.
Just having a GEO sat we could use, even if it doesn't use much ham
infrastructure, could drive interest for a full ham GEO sat.
Also, absolutist arguments, whether hyperbole or not, are usually
wrong and often unhelpful.
On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 11:28 AM KC9SGV via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
>
> Echostar 9
> Here she is:
> 32 FSS transponders in the Ku band.
> 120 Watt...
>
> https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/echostar-9.htm
>
> KC9SGV
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Aug 21, 2019, at 8:34 PM, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> > An arrangement on Echostar9 for 1MHz of bandwidth for up to 4 years of
> > USA+Mexico+Canada coverage is on offer for $2000 a month.
> >
> > I'm putting together a grant proposal for ARRL, FEMA, and others to pay
for
> > at least year of access. I've gotten some positive feedback already. I
> > think we can make this happen with some fundraising effort. I'm willing to
> > provide the human resources and whatever incidental financing needs to
> > happen to secure a grant for rental.
> >
> > The main purpose of this type of system would be to enable field
deployment
> > of "legacy mode" aggregators, like the Phase 4 Ground ARAP (Amateur Radio
> > Access Point). This is where traffic on any ham band, using FM or analog
> > gear, is digitized by a local "collecting" repeater, and is then sent to a
> > satellite from that repeater. FEMA and ARRL have expressed a lot of
> > interest and support for this in the past. Phase 4 Ground needs an ARAP in
> > order to support legacy radios.
> >
> > You don't have to personally have a microwave digital uplink. The
> > aggregator equipment does that part for you.
> >
> > This is most useful for public service and emergency communications. A
> > communications emergency is declared, someone (FEMA, Red Cross, motivated
> > ham volunteer) drops in the aggregator, and all ham traffic it hears is
> > sent to the satellite and then transmitted to the entire footprint.
> >
> > The downlink is 12-14GHz. This is not 10GHz, but is receivable by
> > individuals using very inexpensive gear. Traffic can be repeated over the
> > internet.
> >
> > What does this get us?
> >
> > An opportunity to do all the R&D for the aggregator and get some
experience
> > with uplinks.
> >
> > What do we not have?
> >
> > A true ham band downlink. You can still receive the downlink yourself, or
> > you can get it over the internet from an earth station distributor.
> >
> > That's where we're at with *this* proposal.
> >
> > I think it's worth it to provide a US-based way to design, deploy, test,
> > and use real world aggregator equipment. We learn a lot about GEO comms
and
> > figure out a lot of the ins and outs.
> >
> > Comment and critique welcome and encouraged.
> >
> > More soon!
> > -Michelle W5NYV
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 11:18:05 -0500
From: Joe <nss@???.???>
To: peter@??????.???
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US
Message-ID: <569e3511-7d78-eb67-4427-cb6dce8a0fc2@???.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Yup that's it, and it's still very busy!
Joe WB9SBD
Sig
The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com
On 8/22/2019 10:58 AM, Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) wrote:
> Joe,
>
> Your referring to QO-100 the websdr can be found at
> https://eshail.batc.org.uk/
>
> 73,
>
> Peter, 2M0SQL
>
> On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 at 16:44, Joe <nss@???.??? <mailto:nss@???.???>>
> wrote:
>
> There is that Geo bird over Africa.
>
> I had the URL for a site that lets you listen to the whole bird
> passband.
>
> When it first went up I listened to it a LOT and was amazed at all
> the different modes and coverage.
>
> But I can't find the URL anymore. I was gonna go and listen to see
> what the activity level is now like since it is much older and the
> newness has worn off.
>
> Joe WB9SBD
>
> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
> Idle Tyme
> Idle-Tyme.com
> http://www.idle-tyme.com
> On 8/22/2019 10:04 AM, Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> Hi Michelle,
>>
>> Excellent that they came back with the price and while the project
>> sounds potentially interesting it's of course, not an amateur radio
>> satellite, has anyone considered any risks for example, does this have
>> the potential to raise questions when AMSAT approaches gov/orgs for
>> discount launches for satellites we build that they might say that we
>> could just go rent some transponder space.
>>
>> I know in the states disaster comms is a huge point (weirdly not
>> something that's pushed in Europe), but agencies could already access
>> this kind of technology just by purchasing sat phones, for example, I
>> have an iridium unit that lets me make calls and access the internet
>> although slowly but handy in highlands of Scotland with poor mobile
>> coverage.
>>
>> By the sounds of this, it will be access points that then aggregate
>> into a central point via probably internet backhaul then its dumped up
>> to the satellite, to me that doesn't really feel within the ham
>> spirit, although I'm sure tons would argue :)
>>
>> I know there's a big desire for GEO over North America, but do ops
>> really think this is the ultimate solution? we're talking 96000 USD
>> over 4 years.
>>
>> Think it really requires some heavy thought before just jumping on
the idea.
>>
>> Just my thoughts, and I know I'm on the other side of the pond in the
>> QO-100 footprint.
>>
>> Peter, 2M0SQL
>>
>> On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 at 02:36, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB
>> <amsat-bb@?????.???> <mailto:amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>> An arrangement on Echostar9 for 1MHz of bandwidth for up to 4 years of
>>> USA+Mexico+Canada coverage is on offer for $2000 a month.
>>>
>>> I'm putting together a grant proposal for ARRL, FEMA, and others to
pay for
>>> at least year of access. I've gotten some positive feedback already. I
>>> think we can make this happen with some fundraising effort. I'm
willing to
>>> provide the human resources and whatever incidental financing needs to
>>> happen to secure a grant for rental.
>>>
>>> The main purpose of this type of system would be to enable field
deployment
>>> of "legacy mode" aggregators, like the Phase 4 Ground ARAP (Amateur
Radio
>>> Access Point). This is where traffic on any ham band, using FM or
analog
>>> gear, is digitized by a local "collecting" repeater, and is then
sent to a
>>> satellite from that repeater. FEMA and ARRL have expressed a lot of
>>> interest and support for this in the past. Phase 4 Ground needs an
ARAP in
>>> order to support legacy radios.
>>>
>>> You don't have to personally have a microwave digital uplink. The
>>> aggregator equipment does that part for you.
>>>
>>> This is most useful for public service and emergency communications. A
>>> communications emergency is declared, someone (FEMA, Red Cross,
motivated
>>> ham volunteer) drops in the aggregator, and all ham traffic it hears
is
>>> sent to the satellite and then transmitted to the entire footprint.
>>>
>>> The downlink is 12-14GHz. This is not 10GHz, but is receivable by
>>> individuals using very inexpensive gear. Traffic can be repeated
over the
>>> internet.
>>>
>>> What does this get us?
>>>
>>> An opportunity to do all the R&D for the aggregator and get some
experience
>>> with uplinks.
>>>
>>> What do we not have?
>>>
>>> A true ham band downlink. You can still receive the downlink
yourself, or
>>> you can get it over the internet from an earth station distributor.
>>>
>>> That's where we're at with *this* proposal.
>>>
>>> I think it's worth it to provide a US-based way to design, deploy,
test,
>>> and use real world aggregator equipment. We learn a lot about GEO
comms and
>>> figure out a lot of the ins and outs.
>>>
>>> Comment and critique welcome and encouraged.
>>>
>>> More soon!
>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent viaAMSAT-BB@?????.??? <mailto:AMSAT-BB@?????.???>. AMSAT-NA
makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
>>> Subscription settings:https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent viaAMSAT-BB@?????.??? <mailto:AMSAT-BB@?????.???>. AMSAT-NA
makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
>> Subscription settings:https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>>
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 11:19:43 -0500
From: Zach Metzinger <zmetzing@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US
Message-ID: <97dc8e93-3a77-445f-7b39-ce14d3e43f92@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 2019-08-22 07:36, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Uplink Requirements from Echostar have been outlined to me, but detailed
> discussions on how independent we can get have not yet been held. Worst
> case it?s their modem in an aggregator, multiple uplinks would have to been
> carefully coordinated (or scheduled).
I've done some thinking on this, and I don't think it is something that
Amateur Radio funds should be spent on. Others have made similar
arguments, and here are mine.
> This is indeed much more restrictive than the ham-only 4B (Virginia Tech,
> they have renewed their search for a launch) and Phase 4 Space (ORI, in
> development and actively fundraising). But, this is a relatively
> inexpensive way to test and learn a lot of new things.
I don't see that the Amateur Radio community learns anything from this
exercise that couldn't be done with a ground-based system on our own
bands. There is no Doppler correction to be done, and path loss can be
simulated with attenuation and/or lower power operation. Most of the
link is hidden from the operator, and the underlying information
encoding is ridiculously complex, far more than is required for a KISS
EMCOMM system.
> We have 4 years until end of life of Echostar9. That is more than the
> guaranteed mission time for WFOV ended up being at the end of that
> rideshare offer. For an order of magnitude less money.
But how could that $96,000, over 4 years, benefit the AMSAT mission of
Greater Orbit Larger Footprint? I think quite a bit, but I'm biased:
De-orbit devices, required for the GOLF missions, are expensive, and
testing facility fees need to be paid before launch. How about research
into amateur-developed cold gas or hybrid oxidizer thrusters?
Development of a complementary ground "package" which could get
prospective new satellite operators on the air for (pick a number -- I'm
guessing < $200). Might not be a contest station, but would provide the
early success to kindle interest in this aspect of the hobby.
> If there is a serious show stopper in here somewhere, then we fully
> document and move on.
As others have noted, we are now a stop-gap in EMCOMM. We have plenty of
1st responders in our current society, but education and learning the
technology has fallen by the wayside. Before long, no-one will know how
to make the machines work anymore.[1] If we want to keep Amateur Radio
relevant, we should focus on an under-served area that was part of our
founding principles:
"(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to
contribute to the advancement of the radio art.
(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules
which provide for advancing skills in both the communication and
technical phases of the art.
(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service
of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts."
We're sorely lacking in these areas, as evidenced by the plethora of new
licensees who only know how to press the PTT on an FM rig. Real
knowledge takes an investment of time and mentoring from those who have
gone before. I do not see that your proposal encourages a new ham to
build a microwave antenna, develop receivers and transmitters for our
sparsely-used microwave bands, or debug why they can't hear or be heard
on an amateur bird.
Sincerely,
--- Zach
N0ZGO
[1] ST:TOS "The Cage"
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 11:44:26 -0500
From: "JoAnne K9JKM" <joanne.k9jkm@?????.???>
To: "'AMSAT-BB'" <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US
Message-ID: <5d5ec669.1c69fb81.72ec6.6ea7@??.??????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> But I can't find the URL anymore. I was gonna go and listen to see what
> the activity level is now like since it is much older and the newness
> has worn off.
Try https://eshail.batc.org.uk/
--
73 de JoAnne K9JKM
k9jkm@?????.???
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 12:48:41 -0400
From: John Brier <johnbrier@?????.???>
To: Joe <nss@???.???>
Cc: "Peter Goodhall \(2M0SQL\)" <peter@????????.??.??>, AMSAT BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US
Message-ID:
<CALn0fKNQoeaZKNjp42m+1DDgkcBzOjGD3-7VC_y6L6h3ixyBYw@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
https://eshail.batc.org.uk/nb/
They have a wideband webSDR too now which I hadn't seen yet:
https://eshail.batc.org.uk/wb/
On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 12:40 PM Joe via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> There is that Geo bird over Africa.
>
> I had the URL for a site that lets you listen to the whole bird passband.
>
> When it first went up I listened to it a LOT and was amazed at all the
> different modes and coverage.
>
> But I can't find the URL anymore. I was gonna go and listen to see what
> the activity level is now like since it is much older and the newness
> has worn off.
>
> Joe WB9SBD
> Sig
> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
> Idle Tyme
> Idle-Tyme.com
> http://www.idle-tyme.com
> On 8/22/2019 10:04 AM, Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > Hi Michelle,
> >
> > Excellent that they came back with the price and while the project
> > sounds potentially interesting it's of course, not an amateur radio
> > satellite, has anyone considered any risks for example, does this have
> > the potential to raise questions when AMSAT approaches gov/orgs for
> > discount launches for satellites we build that they might say that we
> > could just go rent some transponder space.
> >
> > I know in the states disaster comms is a huge point (weirdly not
> > something that's pushed in Europe), but agencies could already access
> > this kind of technology just by purchasing sat phones, for example, I
> > have an iridium unit that lets me make calls and access the internet
> > although slowly but handy in highlands of Scotland with poor mobile
> > coverage.
> >
> > By the sounds of this, it will be access points that then aggregate
> > into a central point via probably internet backhaul then its dumped up
> > to the satellite, to me that doesn't really feel within the ham
> > spirit, although I'm sure tons would argue :)
> >
> > I know there's a big desire for GEO over North America, but do ops
> > really think this is the ultimate solution? we're talking 96000 USD
> > over 4 years.
> >
> > Think it really requires some heavy thought before just jumping on the
idea.
> >
> > Just my thoughts, and I know I'm on the other side of the pond in the
> > QO-100 footprint.
> >
> > Peter, 2M0SQL
> >
> > On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 at 02:36, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB
> > <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >> An arrangement on Echostar9 for 1MHz of bandwidth for up to 4 years of
> >> USA+Mexico+Canada coverage is on offer for $2000 a month.
> >>
> >> I'm putting together a grant proposal for ARRL, FEMA, and others to pay
for
> >> at least year of access. I've gotten some positive feedback already. I
> >> think we can make this happen with some fundraising effort. I'm willing
to
> >> provide the human resources and whatever incidental financing needs to
> >> happen to secure a grant for rental.
> >>
> >> The main purpose of this type of system would be to enable field
deployment
> >> of "legacy mode" aggregators, like the Phase 4 Ground ARAP (Amateur Radio
> >> Access Point). This is where traffic on any ham band, using FM or analog
> >> gear, is digitized by a local "collecting" repeater, and is then sent
to a
> >> satellite from that repeater. FEMA and ARRL have expressed a lot of
> >> interest and support for this in the past. Phase 4 Ground needs an ARAP
in
> >> order to support legacy radios.
> >>
> >> You don't have to personally have a microwave digital uplink. The
> >> aggregator equipment does that part for you.
> >>
> >> This is most useful for public service and emergency communications. A
> >> communications emergency is declared, someone (FEMA, Red Cross, motivated
> >> ham volunteer) drops in the aggregator, and all ham traffic it hears is
> >> sent to the satellite and then transmitted to the entire footprint.
> >>
> >> The downlink is 12-14GHz. This is not 10GHz, but is receivable by
> >> individuals using very inexpensive gear. Traffic can be repeated over the
> >> internet.
> >>
> >> What does this get us?
> >>
> >> An opportunity to do all the R&D for the aggregator and get some
experience
> >> with uplinks.
> >>
> >> What do we not have?
> >>
> >> A true ham band downlink. You can still receive the downlink yourself, or
> >> you can get it over the internet from an earth station distributor.
> >>
> >> That's where we're at with *this* proposal.
> >>
> >> I think it's worth it to provide a US-based way to design, deploy, test,
> >> and use real world aggregator equipment. We learn a lot about GEO comms
and
> >> figure out a lot of the ins and outs.
> >>
> >> Comment and critique welcome and encouraged.
> >>
> >> More soon!
> >> -Michelle W5NYV
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 11:57:19 -0500
From: KC9SGV <kc9sgv@?????.???>
To: Joe <nss@???.???>
Cc: "Peter Goodhall \(2M0SQL\)" <peter@????????.??.??>, AMSAT BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US
Message-ID: <7C74B264-B9DA-4A20-86DC-535E4B0D64F0@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Here is the narrow band WebSDR for QO-100 over Africa.
Very active with all the latest sound card digital modes.
From the Goonhilly ground station in England.
We will hopefully have the same type of WebSDR for our 1 MHz bandwidth on
Echostar 9.
https://eshail.batc.org.uk/nb/
Bernard,
KC9SGV
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 22, 2019, at 10:44 AM, Joe via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> There is that Geo bird over Africa.
>
> I had the URL for a site that lets you listen to the whole bird passband.
>
> When it first went up I listened to it a LOT and was amazed at all the
different modes and coverage.
>
> But I can't find the URL anymore. I was gonna go and listen to see what
the activity level is now like since it is much older and the newness has
worn off.
>
> Joe WB9SBD
> Sig
> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
> Idle Tyme
> Idle-Tyme.com
> http://www.idle-tyme.com
>> On 8/22/2019 10:04 AM, Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>> Hi Michelle,
>>
>> Excellent that they came back with the price and while the project
>> sounds potentially interesting it's of course, not an amateur radio
>> satellite, has anyone considered any risks for example, does this have
>> the potential to raise questions when AMSAT approaches gov/orgs for
>> discount launches for satellites we build that they might say that we
>> could just go rent some transponder space.
>>
>> I know in the states disaster comms is a huge point (weirdly not
>> something that's pushed in Europe), but agencies could already access
>> this kind of technology just by purchasing sat phones, for example, I
>> have an iridium unit that lets me make calls and access the internet
>> although slowly but handy in highlands of Scotland with poor mobile
>> coverage.
>>
>> By the sounds of this, it will be access points that then aggregate
>> into a central point via probably internet backhaul then its dumped up
>> to the satellite, to me that doesn't really feel within the ham
>> spirit, although I'm sure tons would argue :)
>>
>> I know there's a big desire for GEO over North America, but do ops
>> really think this is the ultimate solution? we're talking 96000 USD
>> over 4 years.
>>
>> Think it really requires some heavy thought before just jumping on the
idea.
>>
>> Just my thoughts, and I know I'm on the other side of the pond in the
>> QO-100 footprint.
>>
>> Peter, 2M0SQL
>>
>> On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 at 02:36, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB
>> <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>> An arrangement on Echostar9 for 1MHz of bandwidth for up to 4 years of
>>> USA+Mexico+Canada coverage is on offer for $2000 a month.
>>>
>>> I'm putting together a grant proposal for ARRL, FEMA, and others to pay
for
>>> at least year of access. I've gotten some positive feedback already. I
>>> think we can make this happen with some fundraising effort. I'm willing to
>>> provide the human resources and whatever incidental financing needs to
>>> happen to secure a grant for rental.
>>>
>>> The main purpose of this type of system would be to enable field
deployment
>>> of "legacy mode" aggregators, like the Phase 4 Ground ARAP (Amateur Radio
>>> Access Point). This is where traffic on any ham band, using FM or analog
>>> gear, is digitized by a local "collecting" repeater, and is then sent to a
>>> satellite from that repeater. FEMA and ARRL have expressed a lot of
>>> interest and support for this in the past. Phase 4 Ground needs an ARAP in
>>> order to support legacy radios.
>>>
>>> You don't have to personally have a microwave digital uplink. The
>>> aggregator equipment does that part for you.
>>>
>>> This is most useful for public service and emergency communications. A
>>> communications emergency is declared, someone (FEMA, Red Cross, motivated
>>> ham volunteer) drops in the aggregator, and all ham traffic it hears is
>>> sent to the satellite and then transmitted to the entire footprint.
>>>
>>> The downlink is 12-14GHz. This is not 10GHz, but is receivable by
>>> individuals using very inexpensive gear. Traffic can be repeated over the
>>> internet.
>>>
>>> What does this get us?
>>>
>>> An opportunity to do all the R&D for the aggregator and get some
experience
>>> with uplinks.
>>>
>>> What do we not have?
>>>
>>> A true ham band downlink. You can still receive the downlink yourself, or
>>> you can get it over the internet from an earth station distributor.
>>>
>>> That's where we're at with *this* proposal.
>>>
>>> I think it's worth it to provide a US-based way to design, deploy, test,
>>> and use real world aggregator equipment. We learn a lot about GEO comms
and
>>> figure out a lot of the ins and outs.
>>>
>>> Comment and critique welcome and encouraged.
>>>
>>> More soon!
>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 12:31:51 -0500
From: Scott Millick <smillick@??????.???>
To: AMSAT-BB@?????.???
Subject: [amsat-bb] Disaster
Message-ID: <780B4C33-99D3-4E79-AA62-C169C5BF1BAA@??????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
What happens ift he disaster is the communications sats are destroyed. Then
what
Scott k9SM
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 13:32:50 -0400
From: John Brier <johnbrier@?????.???>
To: David Swanson <dave@?????????????.???>
Cc: "<,amsat-bb@?????.???????? <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Update: Rent GEO bandwidth for US
Message-ID:
<CALn0fKPO3Tp=p7D7u6XYHXzTteejHYmJ_+eLVaNL9pSLMGqypg@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
in line response...
On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 1:19 PM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> You have approached this
> mailing list with a price and hype trying to convince folks this would be
> our own QO-100 over North America when it is certainly not. Have
> discussions, talk to folks, see if you can find some funding but be honest
> about what you're pitching.
She did not try to convince anyone this would be a QO-100 over NA. She
said the main thing it got us was R&D for the "aggregator" and that it
did NOT get us a true ham band downlink.
> In short, this is playing around with electronics. It is probably
> interesting to some folks on this list, but it is NOT Amateur Radio in any
> way shape or form. Please stop trying to pass it off as such.
If you build an aggregator as described it is similar to how many use
DMR or D-Star hotspots, which is partially ham radio, and more radio
than those because the downlink is RF.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 17:34:56 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ev Tupis <w2ev@?????.???>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Va. Tech Launch help [was: Update: Rent GEO
bandwidth for US]
Message-ID: <981885513.609273.1566495296867@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hey Michelle,
................................................
On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 8:36:29 AM EDT, Michelle Thompson
<mountain.michelle@?????.???> wrote:
... the ham-only 4B (Virginia Tech, they have renewed their search for a
launch) and Phase 4 Space (ORI, in development and actively
fundraising)..................................................................
.....................
Does Va. Tech have this "under control" or would they like some "6-degrees
of separation" help?
Ev, W2EV
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 12:43:49 -0500
From: Zach Metzinger <zmetzing@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: [amsat-bb] ARISS funding
Message-ID: <3abbe8b0-ad65-55fd-1790-72aa8116438c@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 2019-08-22 10:58, Frank Karnauskas via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Before anyone writes a check for a rented transponder, please
> consider sending your check to help keep the ARISS Outreach for
> Students program funded.
>
> A total of $150,000 is needed to replace and upgrade the aging
> equipment on the ISS. After eight months, the amateur radio
> community has contributed only $33,000 of which $6,500 came from
> AMSAT-UK and another $6,000 came from AMSAT officers.
Frank-
I suspect that this will generate a plethora of responses, so I've
changed the thread title.
Respectfully, I've considered the use case for ARISS, both now and in
the past, and I don't see a huge value proposition. The equipment seems
to be rarely used, as evidenced by the crowd-sourced data:
https://www.amsat.org/status/
Even the AMSAT web page lists most of the services as "rarely used":
https://www.amsat.org/amateur-radio-on-the-iss/
It is important to have school outreach and get youngsters introduced to
the hobby, but it seems that $150k isn't going to work for us 24/7/365
like a repeater or linear transponder. Imagine how cool it would be to
say to students "Yes, we are going to bounce our signals off the ISS. An
astronaut might also be around to say hello too!" at any time of the day
or night?
If you told me that ARISS is going to put up a 5G/10G package on the ISS
and open it up for near-continuous access (subject to power budget), I'd
be the first to donate. However, if you are asking for a sizeable chunk
of change that is used sporadically at the whim of whatever astronaut
happens to be there, I can't see myself donating.
How can we get a more usable (and automatic) station on the ISS?
73,
--- Zach
N0ZGO
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 14, Issue 325
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