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CX2SA > SATDIG 20.06.20 13:15l 750 Lines 25253 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Satellite Users on Macs (Douglas B Tabor)
2. GEO sats (Michael Tondee)
3. GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was
need HEO..please..) (Joe Leikhim)
4. GEO sats (Joe Leikhim)
5. Re: GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was
need HEO..please..) (Paul Stoetzer)
6. Re: GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was
need HEO..please..) (Joe Leikhim)
7. GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no whining....(Was need
HEO..please..) (Joe Leikhim)
8. Re: GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was
need HEO..please..) (Matthias Bopp)
9. Re: GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was
need HEO..please..) (Lucio I0LYL)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 15:07:10 -0600
From: Douglas B Tabor <dtabor52@??????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Satellite Users on Macs
Message-ID: <16719111-D4B3-4ACF-8BE7-F7DB75F5B037@??????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
A comment about Java on Macs was made ? I find using the G0KLA tracker
application quite easy and very useful.
No problems running this Java app.
Someday when my Tuit changes to circular, I?ll play with FoxTelem and maybe
then feel the same about Apple?s interpretation of Java.
73,
Doug, N6UA
Douglas Tabor
dtabor52@??????.???
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 23:55:21 -0400
From: Michael Tondee <mat_62@???????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: [amsat-bb] GEO sats
Message-ID: <f1f9ab0c-5962-d496-10ec-b3d2efdc50ad@???????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Rather than respond to the other thread and have it construed as
negativity or "whining" I'll just put this here. Honestly, while I
recognize the emcomm value of a Ham Geosat, I have absolutely no
interest in it otherwise. Why? Although not active in it now, I got into
this side of the hobby for the challenge. At one time I much enjoyed
building my own tracking device and rotator and interfacing them to my
PC and radio. I also enjoyed building? and experimenting with a variety
of homebrew antennas. I even enjoyed the challenge of doppler tuning!
Somehow, the point the antenna once and forget about it nature of a Geo
sync satellite just doesn't appeal to me and I don't think it ever will.
I also used to bristle at the term "Easysat" and the constant efforts by
AMSAT to convince rank and file amateurs how "easy" it is to work FM
sats. "Easy" isn't why I got into this. Unfortunately I missed AO-40 and
it appears P3-E will never fly but I think that part of sats is where my
passion will always lie. Something along the lines of "We choose to got
to the moon....not because it's easy....but because it's hard" is what
drives me. Just my two cents, I mean to each their own, and all that
being said, I did buy an SDR Play awhile back with the idea of
begrudgingly getting back on the FM sats and being active in this part
of the hobby again despite being extremely unhappy with the direction of
AMSAT over at least the last decade. I guess I'm coming back, but I'm
coming back kicking and screaming...LOL
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 00:01:14 -0400
From: Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@???????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no,
whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Message-ID: <d675828d-333b-4996-2b45-f258f2b77f56@???????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Robert;
AMSAT has been in HEO before and can get there again.
The idea of my proposal is to piggy back on a willing commercial
satellite. The owner of that satellite would be handling the necessary
regulatory issues/problems.? This idea has been proposed before but
convincing a commercial satellite owner to attach unproven payload has
always been an negative argument. No longer, because OSCAR-100 is proven
hardware and it should be considered.
Meanwhile GOLF-TEE can continue to take baby steps.
Looking for ideas to promote this idea. Be positive.
--
Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
JLeikhim@???????.???
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 00:20:24 -0400
From: Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@???????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: [amsat-bb] GEO sats
Message-ID: <934506f6-9e82-d3c7-c407-4147d420a609@???????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Michael;
I have no particular interest in EMCOMM, but is silly to think that LEO
satellites have much value for that. A GEO would in fact be useful for
EMCOMM.
I have built an earth station, worked all sorts of satellites AO-10,
AO-13, etc. negotiating Doppler etc. In my station had no automatic
positioning of the rotors. It was up to me to point to the correct AZ
EL. I only more recently got controllers and really it was for the
challenge of making them work. So I was pretty busy when there was a
pass. But then, those satellites had an apogee where they appeared to
stand still and the band would open up for a long time. It was bliss.
I never did get to work AO-40. I did have the pleasure of hearing its
engineering beacon full quieting on a tiny Standard C508 inside my car
on a road trip.
Lets be honest, none of that work putting an earth station together is
as challenging as putting together AO-40 or any of the predecessor
satellites.? But those days and those folks are gone. AMSAT in my
opinion is in a rut of negative thinking. I have seen the same cycle of
projects for years since AO-40. There are a ton of reasons why we cannot
do something which is why I want that thread to be a positive one.
--
Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
JLeikhim@???????.???
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 00:20:45 -0400
From: Paul Stoetzer <n8hm@????.???>
To: Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@???????.???>
Cc: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no,
whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Message-ID:
<CABzOSOqo5fv=6Sib32hh-ejeMYYURMdPRo4yQ--0pyTYuMEGyg@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Joe,
It?s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all. The
two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified to
tune to amateur frequencies. And, of course, there?s the risk that the
spares may be needed for commercial service some day.
The issue is that to get an American company to do this, you need millions
of dollars up front and then probably millions of dollars a year to support
it. It?s been looked into multiple times over the years and no one is
willing to just give that away or even quote a price that?s remotely
reasonable.
I do take issue with your choice of words in describing GOLF-TEE as ?baby
steps.? GOLF is a project that AMSAT has committed a large amount of money
and man-hours to. It is a very significant project and will lead us back to
HEO. Our engineering team is doing tremendous work and deserves the full
support and encouragement of the amateur community. Sadly, I feel that
support is often lacking and, frankly, our volunteers deserve better than
that.
If you want a HEO, support AMSAT and GOLF in any way that you can. AMSAT is
100% committed and I am personally 100% committed to making this happen for
the community.
73,
Paul Stoetzer, N8HM
Executive Vice President
AMSAT
On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 00:01 Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
> Robert;
>
> AMSAT has been in HEO before and can get there again.
>
> The idea of my proposal is to piggy back on a willing commercial
> satellite. The owner of that satellite would be handling the necessary
> regulatory issues/problems. This idea has been proposed before but
> convincing a commercial satellite owner to attach unproven payload has
> always been an negative argument. No longer, because OSCAR-100 is proven
> hardware and it should be considered.
>
> Meanwhile GOLF-TEE can continue to take baby steps.
>
> Looking for ideas to promote this idea. Be positive.
>
>
> --
> Joe Leikhim
>
>
> Leikhim and Associates
>
> Communications Consultants
>
> Oviedo, Florida
>
> JLeikhim@???????.???
>
> 407-982-0446
>
> WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 01:01:48 -0400
From: Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@???????.???>
To: "amsat-bb@?????.???? <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no,
whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Message-ID: <32188b44-c518-db6a-d624-2f752475669a@???????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Paul;
I fully understand that the transponder is commercial item, which I
point out in the thread. Though there is contention from others that the
transponders or TWT's are not "spares". I really don't know.
The point is, it was done, it works, it is a success and therefore it
can be done again. There can be no objection that it is not proven
design. Why the negativity that it is not an "amateur (built?)? payload?
Maybe the next GEO amateur satellite can shoehorn some custom experiment?
I anticipated that my words "baby steps" might rankle some. But that
indeed is how this return to HEO is being described. Nothing wrong with
that, but why not do both?
I am trying to blast through this mindset that we cannot do this or that
because of debris mitigation, ITAR, money, politics etc.
AO-40 was the last big effort in 16 years. There has been really no
project approaching the capabilities of AO-40 or any of the P3. AO-40
was audacious and impressive. I got to see it in the clean room in
Orlando. it was huge. It was a super car in the world of amateur
satellites.? It was exciting, I sent a few bucks toward the project,
don't tell my wife.
For some of us a cubesat is just not enough.
On 6/20/2020 12:20 AM, Paul Stoetzer wrote:
> Joe,
>
> It?s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all.
> The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares
> modified to tune to amateur frequencies. And, of course, there?s the
> risk that the spares may be needed for commercial service some day.
>
> The issue is that to get an American company to do this, you need
> millions of dollars up front and then probably millions of dollars a
> year to support it. It?s been looked into multiple times over the
> years and no one is willing to just give that away or even quote a
> price that?s remotely reasonable.
>
> I do take issue with your choice of words in describing GOLF-TEE as
> ?baby steps.? GOLF is a project that AMSAT has committed a large
> amount of money and man-hours to. It is a very significant project and
> will lead us back to HEO. Our engineering team is doing tremendous
> work and deserves the full support and encouragement of the amateur
> community. Sadly, I feel that support is often lacking and, frankly,
> our volunteers deserve better than that.
>
> If you want a HEO, support AMSAT and GOLF in any way that you can.
> AMSAT is 100% committed and I am personally 100% committed to making
> this happen for the community.
>
> 73,
>
> Paul Stoetzer, N8HM
> Executive Vice President
> AMSAT
>
> On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 00:01 Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb@?????.??? <mailto:amsat-bb@?????.???>> wrote:
>
> Robert;
>
> AMSAT has been in HEO before and can get there again.
>
> The idea of my proposal is to piggy back on a willing commercial
> satellite. The owner of that satellite would be handling the
> necessary
> regulatory issues/problems.? This idea has been proposed before but
> convincing a commercial satellite owner to attach unproven payload
> has
> always been an negative argument. No longer, because OSCAR-100 is
> proven
> hardware and it should be considered.
>
> Meanwhile GOLF-TEE can continue to take baby steps.
>
> Looking for ideas to promote this idea. Be positive.
>
>
> --
> Joe Leikhim
>
>
> Leikhim and Associates
>
> Communications Consultants
>
> Oviedo, Florida
>
> JLeikhim@???????.???
>
> 407-982-0446
>
> WWW.LEIKHIM.COM <http://WWW.LEIKHIM.COM>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.??? <mailto:AMSAT-BB@?????.???>. AMSAT-NA
> makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campa
ign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
> Virus-free. www.avg.com
>
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campa
ign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>
>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
--
Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
JLeikhim@???????.???
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 01:41:18 -0400
From: Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@???????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no
whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Message-ID: <2ee8b8ee-40f3-18be-c45b-e9d0d0edf151@???????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Thank you!
"Thank you for the positive thread.
Open Research Institute received news today about an additional $15,000
grant. This will help pay for work on GEO/HEO/Lunar payload transmit chain.
This brings the Phase 1 fundraising total to $65,000.
All of the work product is donated without charge to the general public.
This means primarily AMSAT and ARISS/AREx.
ORI has started on Phase 2 fundraising. The goal is $400,000 and will
finance multiple end-to-end engineering models.
Phase 3 is space-rated hardware.
Phase 4 is any costs related to any launch.
There is a path forward. Yes it's hard, but it's not impossible. Besides,
things worth doing are rarely easy!
-Michelle W5NYV"
--
Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
JLeikhim@???????.???
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 08:29:35 +0000
From: Matthias Bopp <matthias.bopp@?????.??>
To: "amsat-bb@?????.???? <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no,
whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Message-ID:
<LEXPR01MB0493EDC52BDD9AF09EDA61BFDE990@?????????????.????????.????.???????.??
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Paul,
With all due respect. I already tried to explain to you less than 48 hours
ago: this is not just a simple retuned hardware on QO-100
You stated "It?s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at
all."
The payload was specified by AMSAT and during the design AMSAT did
participate in all critical design reviews. AMSAT indeed first intended to
build the transponders themselves.
The owner of the satellite did trust the technical knowhow of AMSAT but for
safety and insurance reasons the hardware was built by a professional company.
Of course, QO-100 was coordinated via IARU and fully qualifies as an amateur
satellite (payload). Therefore, it got the number 100 (from AMSAT-NA).
You stated "The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial
spares modified to tune to amateur frequencies."
Let me explain it in simple words so you understand: you cannot simply
retune a WCDMA cellphone and use it as a 2m FM handheld transceiver
The hardware in commercial satellite transponders is not meant to be a
linear transponder with an AGC etc.
In addition, there are no 2.4GHz/10GHz transponders on commercial satellites.
Thus, the hardware had to be custom built for QO-100. The same is true for
the uplink and downlink antennas. The only parts which are reused are the
TWT PAs.
So please, if you need help to understand the architecture or the published
block diagram of the amateur payload please contact the responsible people
of AMSAT-DL and they will be happy to help you.
But please stop commenting about a satellite you have apparently no clue
about or you do not understand the underlying technology.
In any case, meanwhile there more than 1000 happy users in more than 100
countries who are enjoying QO-100 using many different operating modes.
QO-100 has stimulated a lot of technical activities in the microwave bands
and a lot of radio amateurs, who never used the microwave bands, learned how
to build and operate a station with 13cm uplink and 10 GHz downlink.
Kind regards
Matthias
www.dd1us.de
-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???> Im Auftrag von Paul Stoetzer via
AMSAT-BB
Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Juni 2020 06:21
An: Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@???????.???>
Cc: amsat-bb@?????.???
Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no,
whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Joe,
It?s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all. The two
transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified to tune
to amateur frequencies. And, of course, there?s the risk that the spares may
be needed for commercial service some day.
The issue is that to get an American company to do this, you need millions
of dollars up front and then probably millions of dollars a year to support
it. It?s been looked into multiple times over the years and no one is
willing to just give that away or even quote a price that?s remotely
reasonable.
I do take issue with your choice of words in describing GOLF-TEE as ?baby
steps.? GOLF is a project that AMSAT has committed a large amount of money
and man-hours to. It is a very significant project and will lead us back to
HEO. Our engineering team is doing tremendous work and deserves the full
support and encouragement of the amateur community. Sadly, I feel that
support is often lacking and, frankly, our volunteers deserve better than
that.
If you want a HEO, support AMSAT and GOLF in any way that you can. AMSAT is
100% committed and I am personally 100% committed to making this happen for
the community.
73,
Paul Stoetzer, N8HM
Executive Vice President
AMSAT
On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 00:01 Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
> Robert;
>
> AMSAT has been in HEO before and can get there again.
>
> The idea of my proposal is to piggy back on a willing commercial
> satellite. The owner of that satellite would be handling the necessary
> regulatory issues/problems. This idea has been proposed before but
> convincing a commercial satellite owner to attach unproven payload has
> always been an negative argument. No longer, because OSCAR-100 is
> proven hardware and it should be considered.
>
> Meanwhile GOLF-TEE can continue to take baby steps.
>
> Looking for ideas to promote this idea. Be positive.
>
>
> --
> Joe Leikhim
>
>
> Leikhim and Associates
>
> Communications Consultants
>
> Oviedo, Florida
>
> JLeikhim@???????.???
>
> 407-982-0446
>
> WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all
interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 13:00:53 +0200
From: Lucio I0LYL <lucio.i0lyl@?????.???>
To: Paul Stoetzer <n8hm@????.???>, Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@???????.???>
Cc: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no,
whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Message-ID: <30cda8e9-1168-3bc5-b3ed-8615e279e5bb@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Hi Paul,
I believe Amsat-DL cannot respond due to an NDA.
As far as I could follow as a user, there is no risk that Es'HailSat
will "take over" the transponders. They were donated to the radio
amateurs community when the satellite was still in the planning stage.
The whole project for the amateur part was followed, planned and
coordinated by Amsat-DL. There are at least 600 kg of materials built by
Amsat-DL in the ground control station of the Es'HailSat-2 satellite.
In China, radio amateurs are held in high regard and supported by
universities and public bodies. This is just an example.
http://lilacsat.hit.edu.cn/wp/?page_id=844
The problem, forgive me, concerns only the United States, public and
private bodies, which no longer believe in the contribution of radio
amateurs in social life. Radio amateurs have always had an edge. Fior of
technicians were trained thanks to amateur satellites. Experiences and
skills that are then brought back to the commercial world.
Either American commercial companies and public bodies believe in this
contribution or do not believe it. Donations are important, but without
public / private contributions, you don't go anywhere.
73, Lucio I0LYL
Il 20/06/2020 06:20, Paul Stoetzer via AMSAT-BB ha scritto:
> Joe,
>
> It?s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all. The
> two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified to
> tune to amateur frequencies. And, of course, there?s the risk that the
> spares may be needed for commercial service some day.
> ...
>
> 73,
>
> Paul Stoetzer, N8HM
> Executive Vice President
> AMSAT
>
> On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 00:01 Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
> wrote:
>
>> Robert;
>>
>> AMSAT has been in HEO before and can get there again.
>>
>> The idea of my proposal is to piggy back on a willing commercial
>> satellite. The owner of that satellite would be handling the necessary
>> regulatory issues/problems. This idea has been proposed before but
>> convincing a commercial satellite owner to attach unproven payload has
>> always been an negative argument. No longer, because OSCAR-100 is proven
>> hardware and it should be considered.
>>
>> Meanwhile GOLF-TEE can continue to take baby steps.
>>
>> Looking for ideas to promote this idea. Be positive.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joe Leikhim
>>
>>
>> Leikhim and Associates
>>
>> Communications Consultants
>>
>> Oviedo, Florida
>>
>> JLeikhim@???????.???
>>
>> 407-982-0446
>>
>> WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 207
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