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Sent: 200712/2030Z @:CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM #:34830 [Salto] FBB7.00e $:AMSATBB15235
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: WA9JBQ Request (Kevin) (GEO Badger)
2. Re: AMSAT Leadership Explanation ... (Rich Gopstein)
3. Re: AMSAT Leadership Explanation ... (David Swanson)
4. Re: FoxDelta ST2-0417 USB setup help (Jim Walls)
5. Re: AMSAT Leadership Explanation ... (Kevin)
6. Members Please Read (Brad Smith)
7. WA9JBQ Request (Kevin) (Stephen DeVience)
8. Re: AMSAT Leadership Explanation ... (Fernando Ramirez)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 18:43:12 +0000 (UTC)
From: GEO Badger <w3ab@?????.???>
To: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>, <amsat-bb@??????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
Message-ID: <1600328320.483550.1594579392984@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Thank you Patrick, you saved me a long email to write. Many many do not
understand what a non-profit is or how it is to operate. A 501 (c) (3) has a
very specific set of rules to operate by in order to maintain its
incorporation. They are listed in the organization's bylaws, which are to be
a public document. All those points you mentioned are correct..
Additionally, the General Membership, GM, may normally attend BOD meets but
have no voting rights. There are to be minutes taken at each BOD meeting
that may be requested by the GM.
Another very important point I would like to point out is that the BOD are
personally responsible for any financial liabilities incurred by the
organization they serve.
---??
Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ????
http://www.w3ab.org
You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 14:51:23 -0400
From: Rich Gopstein <rich@????????????.???>
To: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
Message-ID:
<CANsNeao+OkYEoieZMDAaBzdqkrKiVby2eAqLFv1oyUxsV4ehGQ@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Thanks. I think we're getting closer :)
It sounds like the "unauthorized expenses" were incurred before you and
Patrick were on the board. And the belief that they were unauthorized is
based solely on reading the AMSAT board meeting minutes? So if those
expenses were authorized through some day-to-day operational procedure,
then they wouldn't have shown up in the board meeting minutes?
Note - I'm not defending the actions, just trying to understand if they
were outside of the bylaws. So far, there isn't any direct evidence that
they were - unless I'm misunderstanding something.
Rich
KD2CQ
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 1:26 PM Michelle Thompson <
mountain.michelle@?????.???> wrote:
> Yes, I can try. You are correct. There is, and definitely should be,
> latitude for ordinary day to day budgeted expenditures.
>
> An unauthorized expense is when money was spent for something it was not
> allocated for, or if the amount spent goes over a set amount.
>
> Both cases occur here. There was a $4k overage to a consulting firm. The
> first $10k was properly authorized. But, officers just kept spending past
> the limit.
>
> Hiring a law firm needs to be carefully documented, especially when
> historically legal expenses are often zero.
>
> Authorized and expected costs include things like trademark and regulatory
> consulting and review.
>
> Anything out of the ordinary, an unusual or unanticipated reason, or
> something regarding liability, loss, and many personnel decisions, needs
> authorization.
>
> The authorization for FD Associates appears in AMSAT meeting minutes.
>
> Hiring Hurwit does not appear in the minutes.
>
> A variety of unusual and personally motivated expenses followed.
>
> Targeting individual members (the denial of access, the NDA runaround, the
> false claims of conflicts of interest were all advised by Hurwit) and then
> attempting to move these expenses to "overhead", is an unauthorized and
> improper use of member money.
>
> Mentioning us by name in payments, and grossly mischaracterizing mild
> complaints and requests for help as deserving of a nuclear response, is an
> unethical use of money.
>
> The board needed to go on the record about this contract, given the very
> unusual nature of the expenses which did not fit into a budgeted or
> recurring category, but they did not.
>
> I understand you may discount my opinion.
>
> That is why we hired a corporate governance specialist who reviewed
> everything. She also wrote the demand letter that finally got me and
> Patrick access to records in early February, four and a half months after
> we were supposed to start our terms.
>
> She reviewed the additional documents we now had access to and explained
> that some expensss were unauthorized and improper.
>
> We made our case to the board, looking to resolve this. They were silent
> and completely uncooperative, until recently.
>
> The change happened when we asked to see copies of all the Hurwit checks.
>
> I campaigned for transparency. Without financial transparency, many other
> things simply don't work well.
>
> I'm optimistic there can be meaningful improvement.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 09:14 Rich Gopstein <rich@????????????.???> wrote:
>
>> Could you clarify "unauthorized"? Not disclosing the expenditure after
>> the fact is different from authorization. Just trying to understand why
>> the expenditures were not authorized. I took a look at the bylaws, and
>> it's clear that officers can be given latitude to make expenditures on
>> behalf of AMSAT without board approval for each expenditure (as you would
>> expect - it would be impractical for the board to have to approve every
>> expenditure).
>>
>> Rich
>> KD2CQ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>
>>> The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
>>>
>>> Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally have
>>> been made.
>>>
>>> This failed.
>>>
>>> Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what we
>>> did
>>> along the way.
>>>
>>> This worked.
>>>
>>> Patrick and I are in the clear.
>>>
>>> The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
>>>
>>> They claim the entire board knew about it.
>>>
>>> There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when we
>>> joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election can
>>> solve.
>>>
>>> Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
>>>
>>> Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before an
>>> election, is simply the right thing to do.
>>>
>>> I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were announced.
>>>
>>> Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly
>>> unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though.
>>> This
>>> is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
>>>
>>> Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not have
>>> to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and
>>> easily
>>> resolved reasons.
>>>
>>> Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending definitely
>>> is.
>>>
>>> If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will vote
>>> to
>>> return the same people to their jobs.
>>>
>>> I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates
>>> that
>>> will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward.
>>> Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
>>>
>>> We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.
>>>
>>> Michelle W5NYV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of
>>> > improper
>>> > behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with
>>> concern, but
>>> > also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred
>>> in the
>>> > 30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution,
>>> because
>>> > the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a
>>> holiday
>>> > week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical
>>> > political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they
>>> believed
>>> > the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have
>>> > brought
>>> > them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations were
>>> > either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the
>>> most
>>> > charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but egregious
>>> > errors in judgement by the accusers.
>>> >
>>> > I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these
>>> unwarranted
>>> > accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so
>>> grievously
>>> > misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused
>>> AMSAT. It
>>> > would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken
>>> trust
>>> > with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum they
>>> > should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they represent a
>>> > vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified
>>> > candidates to replace them without their baggage.
>>> >
>>> > Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board
>>> > candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors, or
>>> > been
>>> > endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
>>> >
>>> > Alan Biddle
>>> > WA4SCA
>>> > Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions
>>> > expressed
>>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>> of
>>> > AMSAT-NA.
>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 14:03:56 -0500
From: David Swanson <dave@?????????????.???>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
Message-ID:
<CANq+eyX6NY4yB+JaJ3XzK5-oxcRXh+11BYs_cmQo_MNFA5jW1A@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Director Thompson,
You and Director Stoddard harassed and intimidated members of the board
pre-2019 election. Fact.
The pre-2019 Election board hired attorneys to deal with your intimidation
and harassment. Fact.
Every member of the pre-2019 Election board signed a letter, stating they
were aware of the legal expenses. Fact.
After you and Director Stoddard were elected to the board in 2019 you
continued to harass and intimidate officers and board members of AMSAT.
Fact.
No matter what type of spin you put on this, no matter how many times you
repeat your lies, you and director Stoddard are in the wrong here, and
should resign immediately.
Members of AMSAT that are reading this and wanting to know what they can
do, it's simple. Do not vote for the candidates endorsed by Director
Thompson and Director Stoddard in 2020. Call on Director Thompson and
Director Stoddard publicly to resign. If they do not resign, do not return
them to the board in 2021. With these simple steps AMSAT can return
spending your membership dollars on keeping amateur radio in space, instead
of defending against disgruntled former volunteers with bones to pick.
-Dave, KG5CCI
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 12:30 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> Yes, I can try. You are correct. There is, and definitely should be,
> latitude for ordinary day to day budgeted expenditures.
>
> An unauthorized expense is when money was spent for something it was not
> allocated for, or if the amount spent goes over a set amount.
>
> Both cases occur here. There was a $4k overage to a consulting firm. The
> first $10k was properly authorized. But, officers just kept spending past
> the limit.
>
> Hiring a law firm needs to be carefully documented, especially when
> historically legal expenses are often zero.
>
> Authorized and expected costs include things like trademark and regulatory
> consulting and review.
>
> Anything out of the ordinary, an unusual or unanticipated reason, or
> something regarding liability, loss, and many personnel decisions, needs
> authorization.
>
> The authorization for FD Associates appears in AMSAT meeting minutes.
>
> Hiring Hurwit does not appear in the minutes.
>
> A variety of unusual and personally motivated expenses followed.
>
> Targeting individual members (the denial of access, the NDA runaround, the
> false claims of conflicts of interest were all advised by Hurwit) and then
> attempting to move these expenses to "overhead", is an unauthorized and
> improper use of member money.
>
> Mentioning us by name in payments, and grossly mischaracterizing mild
> complaints and requests for help as deserving of a nuclear response, is an
> unethical use of money.
>
> The board needed to go on the record about this contract, given the very
> unusual nature of the expenses which did not fit into a budgeted or
> recurring category, but they did not.
>
> I understand you may discount my opinion.
>
> That is why we hired a corporate governance specialist who reviewed
> everything. She also wrote the demand letter that finally got me and
> Patrick access to records in early February, four and a half months after
> we were supposed to start our terms.
>
> She reviewed the additional documents we now had access to and explained
> that some expensss were unauthorized and improper.
>
> We made our case to the board, looking to resolve this. They were silent
> and completely uncooperative, until recently.
>
> The change happened when we asked to see copies of all the Hurwit checks.
>
> I campaigned for transparency. Without financial transparency, many other
> things simply don't work well.
>
> I'm optimistic there can be meaningful improvement.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 09:14 Rich Gopstein <rich@????????????.???> wrote:
>
> > Could you clarify "unauthorized"? Not disclosing the expenditure after
> > the fact is different from authorization. Just trying to understand why
> > the expenditures were not authorized. I took a look at the bylaws, and
> > it's clear that officers can be given latitude to make expenditures on
> > behalf of AMSAT without board approval for each expenditure (as you would
> > expect - it would be impractical for the board to have to approve every
> > expenditure).
> >
> > Rich
> > KD2CQ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> >> The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
> >>
> >> Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally
> have
> >> been made.
> >>
> >> This failed.
> >>
> >> Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what we
> >> did
> >> along the way.
> >>
> >> This worked.
> >>
> >> Patrick and I are in the clear.
> >>
> >> The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
> >>
> >> They claim the entire board knew about it.
> >>
> >> There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when
> we
> >> joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election
> can
> >> solve.
> >>
> >> Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
> >>
> >> Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before
> an
> >> election, is simply the right thing to do.
> >>
> >> I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were announced.
> >>
> >> Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly
> >> unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though.
> >> This
> >> is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
> >>
> >> Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not
> have
> >> to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and
> >> easily
> >> resolved reasons.
> >>
> >> Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending definitely
> >> is.
> >>
> >> If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will vote
> >> to
> >> return the same people to their jobs.
> >>
> >> I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates
> that
> >> will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward.
> >> Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
> >>
> >> We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.
> >>
> >> Michelle W5NYV
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of
> >> > improper
> >> > behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with
> concern,
> >> but
> >> > also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred
> in
> >> the
> >> > 30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution,
> >> because
> >> > the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a
> >> holiday
> >> > week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical
> >> > political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they
> >> believed
> >> > the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have
> >> > brought
> >> > them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations
> were
> >> > either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the
> >> most
> >> > charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but
> egregious
> >> > errors in judgement by the accusers.
> >> >
> >> > I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these
> unwarranted
> >> > accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so
> >> grievously
> >> > misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused
> AMSAT.
> >> It
> >> > would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken
> trust
> >> > with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum they
> >> > should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they represent
> a
> >> > vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified
> >> > candidates to replace them without their baggage.
> >> >
> >> > Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board
> >> > candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors,
> or
> >> > been
> >> > endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
> >> >
> >> > Alan Biddle
> >> > WA4SCA
> >> > Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions
> >> > expressed
> >> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> >> > AMSAT-NA.
> >> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >> program!
> >> > Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> >> AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 12:31:33 -0700
From: Jim Walls <jim@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FoxDelta ST2-0417 USB setup help
Message-ID: <2715fda5-ec7a-39f4-8924-69925e8e540a@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
A little follow up report.
Several people responded either direct to me or via the AMSAT-BB. Thank
you to each of you.? Between all the various responses I was eventually
able to both Nova for Windows and SatPC32 to be able to read the antenna
positions and control the rotors.? I have a very strong preference of
using Nova over SatPC32 so very happy I was able to get that working.? I
have enjoyed watching the antennas follow several passes of various
satellites over the past day or so.? Now I need to get new feedlines to
the antennas, and fix the radio.? One step at a time, but I'm getting there.
Jim
K6CCC
On 07/08/2020 19:20, Jim Walls via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> I recently bought a FoxDelta ST2-0417 USB rotor interface for my Yaesu
> G-5500 rotor.? I have the ST-2 communicating with the rotor just
> fine.? I can see the azimuth and elevation readout and using the ST2
> pushbuttons, I can control both just fine. ? However, I can't get it
> to communicate properly with my computer.? I am running a Dell desktop
> under Windows 10 and have installed the CH360G driver.? The ST2 shows
> as COM8 according the the device manager.? If I unplug the USB cable,
> the Device Manager confirms that COM8 goes away and when I plug the
> cable back in, COM8 returns.? I initially was trying to use Nova for
> Windows (which I have used for 20+ years).? I tried every software
> interface setting (using COM8) and the best I could get a couple weeks
> ago was Azimuth display and control (no elevation display, but it
> appeared that it tried to control elevation), but can't manage to
> replicate that today. Everything shows either 0.0 / 0.0 or ---- / ----
> for the rotor pointing in Nova.
> Somewhat out of desperation, I downloaded SatPC32 and can't even get
> that far.? As far as I can tell, every rotor type is expecting a
> parallel port interface.? Keep in mind that I have never seen SatPC32
> until an hour ago, so that may be my issue.
>
> My preference would be to use Nova for Windows, but if that can't be
> made to work, I CAN switch over to SatPC32.? In either case, the
> software will be used exclusively for rotor control and not doppler
> correction (not using a radio that supports that).
>
>
> Do you have any suggestions?
>
--
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
jim@?????.???
Ofc: 818-548-4804
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 12:45:12 -0700
From: Kevin <wa7fwf@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
Message-ID: <02cd1fa4-e037-e244-ad8a-a94a4e28d200@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Dave,
?? I agree with you 100%, and also call for both to resign.
Kevin WA7FWF #19623
On 7/12/2020 12:03 PM, David Swanson via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Director Thompson,
>
> You and Director Stoddard harassed and intimidated members of the board
> pre-2019 election. Fact.
> The pre-2019 Election board hired attorneys to deal with your intimidation
> and harassment. Fact.
> Every member of the pre-2019 Election board signed a letter, stating they
> were aware of the legal expenses. Fact.
> After you and Director Stoddard were elected to the board in 2019 you
> continued to harass and intimidate officers and board members of AMSAT.
> Fact.
>
> No matter what type of spin you put on this, no matter how many times you
> repeat your lies, you and director Stoddard are in the wrong here, and
> should resign immediately.
>
> Members of AMSAT that are reading this and wanting to know what they can
> do, it's simple. Do not vote for the candidates endorsed by Director
> Thompson and Director Stoddard in 2020. Call on Director Thompson and
> Director Stoddard publicly to resign. If they do not resign, do not return
> them to the board in 2021. With these simple steps AMSAT can return
> spending your membership dollars on keeping amateur radio in space, instead
> of defending against disgruntled former volunteers with bones to pick.
>
> -Dave, KG5CCI
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 12:30 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
>> Yes, I can try. You are correct. There is, and definitely should be,
>> latitude for ordinary day to day budgeted expenditures.
>>
>> An unauthorized expense is when money was spent for something it was not
>> allocated for, or if the amount spent goes over a set amount.
>>
>> Both cases occur here. There was a $4k overage to a consulting firm. The
>> first $10k was properly authorized. But, officers just kept spending past
>> the limit.
>>
>> Hiring a law firm needs to be carefully documented, especially when
>> historically legal expenses are often zero.
>>
>> Authorized and expected costs include things like trademark and regulatory
>> consulting and review.
>>
>> Anything out of the ordinary, an unusual or unanticipated reason, or
>> something regarding liability, loss, and many personnel decisions, needs
>> authorization.
>>
>> The authorization for FD Associates appears in AMSAT meeting minutes.
>>
>> Hiring Hurwit does not appear in the minutes.
>>
>> A variety of unusual and personally motivated expenses followed.
>>
>> Targeting individual members (the denial of access, the NDA runaround, the
>> false claims of conflicts of interest were all advised by Hurwit) and then
>> attempting to move these expenses to "overhead", is an unauthorized and
>> improper use of member money.
>>
>> Mentioning us by name in payments, and grossly mischaracterizing mild
>> complaints and requests for help as deserving of a nuclear response, is an
>> unethical use of money.
>>
>> The board needed to go on the record about this contract, given the very
>> unusual nature of the expenses which did not fit into a budgeted or
>> recurring category, but they did not.
>>
>> I understand you may discount my opinion.
>>
>> That is why we hired a corporate governance specialist who reviewed
>> everything. She also wrote the demand letter that finally got me and
>> Patrick access to records in early February, four and a half months after
>> we were supposed to start our terms.
>>
>> She reviewed the additional documents we now had access to and explained
>> that some expensss were unauthorized and improper.
>>
>> We made our case to the board, looking to resolve this. They were silent
>> and completely uncooperative, until recently.
>>
>> The change happened when we asked to see copies of all the Hurwit checks.
>>
>> I campaigned for transparency. Without financial transparency, many other
>> things simply don't work well.
>>
>> I'm optimistic there can be meaningful improvement.
>>
>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 09:14 Rich Gopstein <rich@????????????.???> wrote:
>>
>>> Could you clarify "unauthorized"? Not disclosing the expenditure after
>>> the fact is different from authorization. Just trying to understand why
>>> the expenditures were not authorized. I took a look at the bylaws, and
>>> it's clear that officers can be given latitude to make expenditures on
>>> behalf of AMSAT without board approval for each expenditure (as you would
>>> expect - it would be impractical for the board to have to approve every
>>> expenditure).
>>>
>>> Rich
>>> KD2CQ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>>> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
>>>>
>>>> Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally
>> have
>>>> been made.
>>>>
>>>> This failed.
>>>>
>>>> Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what we
>>>> did
>>>> along the way.
>>>>
>>>> This worked.
>>>>
>>>> Patrick and I are in the clear.
>>>>
>>>> The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
>>>>
>>>> They claim the entire board knew about it.
>>>>
>>>> There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when
>> we
>>>> joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election
>> can
>>>> solve.
>>>>
>>>> Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
>>>>
>>>> Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before
>> an
>>>> election, is simply the right thing to do.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were announced.
>>>>
>>>> Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly
>>>> unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though.
>>>> This
>>>> is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
>>>>
>>>> Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not
>> have
>>>> to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and
>>>> easily
>>>> resolved reasons.
>>>>
>>>> Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending definitely
>>>> is.
>>>>
>>>> If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will vote
>>>> to
>>>> return the same people to their jobs.
>>>>
>>>> I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates
>> that
>>>> will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward.
>>>> Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
>>>>
>>>> We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.
>>>>
>>>> Michelle W5NYV
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
>> wrote:
>>>>> I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of
>>>>> improper
>>>>> behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with
>> concern,
>>>> but
>>>>> also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred
>> in
>>>> the
>>>>> 30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution,
>>>> because
>>>>> the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a
>>>> holiday
>>>>> week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical
>>>>> political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they
>>>> believed
>>>>> the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have
>>>>> brought
>>>>> them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations
>> were
>>>>> either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the
>>>> most
>>>>> charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but
>> egregious
>>>>> errors in judgement by the accusers.
>>>>>
>>>>> I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these
>> unwarranted
>>>>> accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so
>>>> grievously
>>>>> misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused
>> AMSAT.
>>>> It
>>>>> would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken
>> trust
>>>>> with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum they
>>>>> should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they represent
>> a
>>>>> vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified
>>>>> candidates to replace them without their baggage.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board
>>>>> candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors,
>> or
>>>>> been
>>>>> endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alan Biddle
>>>>> WA4SCA
>>>>> Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> Opinions
>>>>> expressed
>>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of
>>>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> program!
>>>>> Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> Opinions expressed
>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 19:48:48 +0000 (UTC)
From: Brad Smith <corlissbs@???.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
Message-ID: <1712165007.494111.1594583328598@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
If you care about the AMSAT organization continuing to help hams in space
communications, please read and reread Patrick's and Michelle's
explanations.? They layout exactly what happened. Now we learn that the
expenditure is over 16k. That is 363 memberships, if this retired engineer's
math is correct. This is money wasted to beat down two members who want
transparency and progress. This was not right. Our money was wasted! I am
anxious for the election.
Again, I ask that members do not resign over this. That helps nobody and
hurts out hobby, which has already taken a huge hit. Solve this with your
voting privilege.
73 Brad KC9UQR
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 14:57:40 -0500
From: Stephen DeVience <sjdevience@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
Message-ID:
<CAMPfQQDb21oTOxOJzGKUKncsMKMhS1V0XmxfZVSXJD_aQqkb7A@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
"Additionally, the General Membership, GM, may normally attend BOD meets
but have no voting rights."
As a member, I was looking forward to receiving a Zoom link for the next
BOD meeting, but after a quick search online, this seems to only be true
for certain situations where government money is involved. We may need to
hire a lawyer to figure it out for sure...
I will just say that even as a non-profit, AMSAT is still like any other
corporation in that it provides a product (satellites, publications, etc.)
in return for compensation (donations, membership fees). Most members don't
care how the sausage is made, but they will care if there are no new
satellites because precious time and money are spent on internal conflict.
They will vote with their pocketbooks when they find something else
interesting to do. So the board needs to put aside its personal
differences, find some compromises to the legitimate grievances on both
sides, and focus on providing a good product that encourages people to
continue donating. Otherwise AMSAT will go the way of Sears and we will all
be stuck using cheap Chinese tools (satellites) instead.
-Stephen, N8URE
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 13:12:55 -0700
From: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
Message-ID:
<CAGHXx8gSM-m3bSz0MFD7ejsrNCfS76T7forZFPSBNHc=iOfpTQ@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Just because someone can't take public criticism, or be held accountable
for his actions, that means that he's being "harassed". The officers and
board prior to the election decided to place prior restrains on a member,
and now we know, look for legal advise in order to retaliate and possibly
remove said member from the organization. For what? Just to cuddle the
seemingly fragile ego of a director/officer?
The membership sent a clear message last year, we want transparency and
accountability. We expected regular updates from the new directors in
regards to the current status of the organization. If that's harassment
then I don't know what to say. Maybe is a 2020 thing.
We can't allow a group of people that think AMSAT is their private property
to use our membership dues to retaliate against members and obstruct the
responsibility of duly elected directors.
KF7R
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 12:22 PM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> Director Thompson,
>
> You and Director Stoddard harassed and intimidated members of the board
> pre-2019 election. Fact.
> The pre-2019 Election board hired attorneys to deal with your intimidation
> and harassment. Fact.
> Every member of the pre-2019 Election board signed a letter, stating they
> were aware of the legal expenses. Fact.
> After you and Director Stoddard were elected to the board in 2019 you
> continued to harass and intimidate officers and board members of AMSAT.
> Fact.
>
> No matter what type of spin you put on this, no matter how many times you
> repeat your lies, you and director Stoddard are in the wrong here, and
> should resign immediately.
>
> Members of AMSAT that are reading this and wanting to know what they can
> do, it's simple. Do not vote for the candidates endorsed by Director
> Thompson and Director Stoddard in 2020. Call on Director Thompson and
> Director Stoddard publicly to resign. If they do not resign, do not return
> them to the board in 2021. With these simple steps AMSAT can return
> spending your membership dollars on keeping amateur radio in space, instead
> of defending against disgruntled former volunteers with bones to pick.
>
> -Dave, KG5CCI
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 12:30 PM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> > Yes, I can try. You are correct. There is, and definitely should be,
> > latitude for ordinary day to day budgeted expenditures.
> >
> > An unauthorized expense is when money was spent for something it was not
> > allocated for, or if the amount spent goes over a set amount.
> >
> > Both cases occur here. There was a $4k overage to a consulting firm. The
> > first $10k was properly authorized. But, officers just kept spending past
> > the limit.
> >
> > Hiring a law firm needs to be carefully documented, especially when
> > historically legal expenses are often zero.
> >
> > Authorized and expected costs include things like trademark and
> regulatory
> > consulting and review.
> >
> > Anything out of the ordinary, an unusual or unanticipated reason, or
> > something regarding liability, loss, and many personnel decisions, needs
> > authorization.
> >
> > The authorization for FD Associates appears in AMSAT meeting minutes.
> >
> > Hiring Hurwit does not appear in the minutes.
> >
> > A variety of unusual and personally motivated expenses followed.
> >
> > Targeting individual members (the denial of access, the NDA runaround,
> the
> > false claims of conflicts of interest were all advised by Hurwit) and
> then
> > attempting to move these expenses to "overhead", is an unauthorized and
> > improper use of member money.
> >
> > Mentioning us by name in payments, and grossly mischaracterizing mild
> > complaints and requests for help as deserving of a nuclear response, is
> an
> > unethical use of money.
> >
> > The board needed to go on the record about this contract, given the very
> > unusual nature of the expenses which did not fit into a budgeted or
> > recurring category, but they did not.
> >
> > I understand you may discount my opinion.
> >
> > That is why we hired a corporate governance specialist who reviewed
> > everything. She also wrote the demand letter that finally got me and
> > Patrick access to records in early February, four and a half months after
> > we were supposed to start our terms.
> >
> > She reviewed the additional documents we now had access to and explained
> > that some expensss were unauthorized and improper.
> >
> > We made our case to the board, looking to resolve this. They were silent
> > and completely uncooperative, until recently.
> >
> > The change happened when we asked to see copies of all the Hurwit checks.
> >
> > I campaigned for transparency. Without financial transparency, many
> other
> > things simply don't work well.
> >
> > I'm optimistic there can be meaningful improvement.
> >
> > -Michelle W5NYV
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 09:14 Rich Gopstein <rich@????????????.???> wrote:
> >
> > > Could you clarify "unauthorized"? Not disclosing the expenditure after
> > > the fact is different from authorization. Just trying to understand
> why
> > > the expenditures were not authorized. I took a look at the bylaws, and
> > > it's clear that officers can be given latitude to make expenditures on
> > > behalf of AMSAT without board approval for each expenditure (as you
> would
> > > expect - it would be impractical for the board to have to approve every
> > > expenditure).
> > >
> > > Rich
> > > KD2CQ
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> > > amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> > >
> > >> The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
> > >>
> > >> Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally
> > have
> > >> been made.
> > >>
> > >> This failed.
> > >>
> > >> Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what
> we
> > >> did
> > >> along the way.
> > >>
> > >> This worked.
> > >>
> > >> Patrick and I are in the clear.
> > >>
> > >> The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
> > >>
> > >> They claim the entire board knew about it.
> > >>
> > >> There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when
> > we
> > >> joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election
> > can
> > >> solve.
> > >>
> > >> Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
> > >>
> > >> Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before
> > an
> > >> election, is simply the right thing to do.
> > >>
> > >> I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were
> announced.
> > >>
> > >> Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of
> unrepentantly
> > >> unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though.
> > >> This
> > >> is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
> > >>
> > >> Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not
> > have
> > >> to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and
> > >> easily
> > >> resolved reasons.
> > >>
> > >> Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending
> definitely
> > >> is.
> > >>
> > >> If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will
> vote
> > >> to
> > >> return the same people to their jobs.
> > >>
> > >> I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates
> > that
> > >> will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward.
> > >> Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
> > >>
> > >> We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big
> difference.
> > >>
> > >> Michelle W5NYV
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of
> > >> > improper
> > >> > behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with
> > concern,
> > >> but
> > >> > also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred
> > in
> > >> the
> > >> > 30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution,
> > >> because
> > >> > the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a
> > >> holiday
> > >> > week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical
> > >> > political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they
> > >> believed
> > >> > the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have
> > >> > brought
> > >> > them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations
> > were
> > >> > either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the
> > >> most
> > >> > charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but
> > egregious
> > >> > errors in judgement by the accusers.
> > >> >
> > >> > I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these
> > unwarranted
> > >> > accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so
> > >> grievously
> > >> > misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused
> > AMSAT.
> > >> It
> > >> > would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken
> > trust
> > >> > with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum
> they
> > >> > should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they
> represent
> > a
> > >> > vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified
> > >> > candidates to replace them without their baggage.
> > >> >
> > >> > Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board
> > >> > candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors,
> > or
> > >> > been
> > >> > endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
> > >> >
> > >> > Alan Biddle
> > >> > WA4SCA
> > >> > Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> > >> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > >> Opinions
> > >> > expressed
> > >> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views
> > of
> > >> > AMSAT-NA.
> > >> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > >> program!
> > >> > Subscription settings:
> > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >> >
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > >> Opinions expressed
> > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> > >> AMSAT-NA.
> > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > >> Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 235
*****************************************
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