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CX2SA > SATDIG 13.07.20 01:16l 1482 Lines 58205 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : AMSATBB15237
Read: GUEST
Subj: AMSAT-BB-digest V15 237
Path: IW8PGT<IZ3LSV<DB0ERF<DB0RES<ON0AR<OZ5BBS<CX2SA
Sent: 200712/2312Z @:CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM #:34835 [Salto] FBB7.00e $:AMSATBB15237
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 233 (Gailen Marshall)
2. Re: Directors Stoddard and Thompson (Chad KG0MW)
3. Re: Members Please Read (Chad KG0MW)
4. Re: AMSAT Leadership Explanation ... (Rich Gopstein)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 15:50:47 -0500
From: Gailen Marshall <gdm2md@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 233
Message-ID: <92CBBC69-47D9-46E3-A39C-4B8DBD8482F5@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Yes! Can we stick to the birds and let those interested in structural
squabbling have their own venue? Gailen N5GDM
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 12, 2020, at 10:33, amsat-bb-request@?????.??? wrote:
>
> ?Send AMSAT-BB mailing list submissions to
> amsat-bb@?????.???
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> amsat-bb-request@?????.???
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> amsat-bb-owner@?????.???
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of AMSAT-BB digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: WA9JBQ Request (Kevin) (W3AB/GEO)
> 2. Re: Proposal for new list (bernd1peters@?????.????
> 3. Re: Foolishness (Michelle Thompson)
> 4. Re: WA9JBQ Request (Kevin) (Michelle Thompson)
> 5. Re: Proposal for new list (Matthias Bopp)
> 6. Re: Proposal for new list (Alan)
> 7. Re: Proposal for new list (Jean Marc Momple)
> 8. Re: Proposal for new list (Daniel Schultz)
> 9. Re: AMSAT Leadership Explanation ... (Michelle Thompson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 20:53:55 -0700
> From: W3AB/GEO <w3ab@?????.???>
> To: "Mac A. Cody" <maccody@???.???>
> Cc: amsat-bb@?????.???
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
> Message-ID: <6011b4bf-88be-47a9-9ca1-839966207b04@?????.???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Well stated Mac.
>
> ?___
> Sent from my two way wrist watch
> 73 de W3AB/GEO?
>
>> On Jul 11, 2020, 19:55, at 19:55, "Mac A. Cody via AMSAT-BB"
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>> As a means of affirming what Jerry has stated here, I'll comment
>> about my own experiences.? A few years ago, I volunteered to
>> help out on the AMSAT-SDR project.? Unfortunately, I had to bow
>> out because my employer was concerned about possible conflict of
>> interest.? It sucked, but I didn't want to place AMSAT, or the
>> other individuals that had volunteered to help, in a situation that
>> might impact the use of the technologies that were developed. If
>> anything, it spurred AMSAT to draw up a policy document on how to
>> address this type of conflict of interest.
>>
>> I used to be a relatively frequent presence on the FM satellites,
>> but my involvement has pretty much ceased due to my work.? Let's
>> just say that I have developed some technologies in recent years,
>> some supporting the field of satellite networking, that are
>> starting to take off.? Consequently, my free time has become more
>> dominated by other priorities.
>>
>> Sometimes life gets in the way.? Sometimes the reasons are good
>> and other times they are not.? We just have to be patient when it
>> happens to us and understanding when it happens to others.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Mac Cody / AE5PH
>>
>>> On 7/11/20 7:26 PM, Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>>> On 7/11/2020 17:16, Jeff via AMSAT-BB wrote:
>>>> I'm thinking Joe just had enough of all this BS, and I certainly
>> don't blame him....
>>> I will say that just like everyone, there are "real life" things that
>>> come up and demand and deserve the attention even if it impacts our
>>> hobby.? AMSAT Officers really are very dedicated volunteers and the
>>> hours are long (as my wife liked to say, "I saw more of you when you
>> got
>>> paid to work.")? Real life can slam what hours we have grown used to
>>> giving our hobby and that easily causes the appearance of neglect or
>>> wondering why an Officer appears to have gone AWOL.? Since the real
>> life
>>> stuff is often personal, despite the amount of sharing or appearances
>>> any volunteer is known for most are not willing to share their
>> personal
>>> life and problems with fellow hams everywhere via the same media they
>>> usually use.? Most probably don't even happen to think about any
>>> unexplained absence perceived by anyone beyond letting our other
>>> Officers and team leads know.? And when it gets too deep something's
>>> gotta give, and it will be hobby/volunteer time spent toward others
>> but
>>> the information shared publicly is often "personal reasons" for the
>>> obvious reason.? I don't think Joe or anyone else who has had to step
>>> down or step back from any position and effort they have been
>>> volunteering to AMSAT take that decision lightly or without
>> reluctance
>>> when it comes.
>>> Having had enough is certainly something that would be understandable
>>> since this is "just a hobby" but the reason for departure is not as
>>> likely to be a somber "personal reasons".? It's probably a much more
>>> lively response, I would imagine!?? hihi
>>>
>>> Jerry Buxton, N?JY
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>>> Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 21:13:47 -0700
> From: <bernd1peters@?????.???>
> To: <johnv@????????.???>, "'Zach Metzinger'" <zmetzing@?????.???>,
> <amsat-bb@?????.???>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
> Message-ID: <0b4e01d65802$d79b5af0$86d210d0$@?????.???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Agree, one list for radio and another one for politics and lawyers
>
> Bernd - KB7AK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???> On Behalf Of johnv--- via
AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2020 5:04 PM
> To: amsat-bb@?????.???? Zach Metzinger <zmetzing@?????.???>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
>
> I tend to agree since I have no idea what administrative problem(s) there
alleged to be. It can be handled elsewhere.
> This seems to be very minor when you compare it to how the individual
states are being "run" and as we go down the hole in a hand basket.
>
> I will not reply to anyone else since I will remove myself from this list
serve.
> I'm not mad, just going away.
>
> John
> N7AME
>
>
> Faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not
see.
>
>
> On Saturday, July 11, 2020, 2:57:16 PM PDT, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> I propose that a new list be created, separate from amsat-bb, for
> discussion of administrative issues regarding AMSAT. This would improve
> the SNR of amsat-bb for those of us who just want to play radio and work
> satellites.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --- Zach
> N0ZGO
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 22:14:33 -0700
> From: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle@?????.???>
> To: Rich Gopstein <rich@????????????.???>
> Cc: Amsat - BBs <amsat-bb@?????.???>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Foolishness
> Message-ID:
> <CACvjz2XuYCvWsoEqjUETnMO1sUxtduv-khM2a=yEQb6at_2M+Q@????.?????.???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> The only agenda is to serve the members.
>
> I want to work with people that provide basic corporate oversight, support
> the ITAR/EAR public domain carve outs, and see the value in microwave
> broadband digital payload work.
>
> That won't happen with the incumbents.
>
> They can't even be bothered to hold meetings.
>
> Therefore, I and others have spoken up.
>
> Please send us a team that can get ambitious things done.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 14:25 Rich Gopstein <rich@????????????.???> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Michelle. I did not intend to imply that people associated with
>> ORI shouldn't be on the AMSAT board. I'm trying to understand if there's
>> an agenda behind a multi-year attempt at getting a majority on the AMSAT
>> board - including very public accusations against the existing board and
>> leadership.
>>
>> I think that would help people make up their mind about how to vote.
>>
>> Rich
>> KD2CQ
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 2:23 PM Michelle Thompson <
>> mountain.michelle@?????.???> wrote:
>>
>>> I can speak to this. Thank you for the opportunity.
>>>
>>> It's the other way around. ORI provides all engineering to the general
>>> public, free of charge.
>>>
>>> We've pledged our successful fundraising to directly benefit AMSAT in
>>> every way we know how. We've done significant legal and regulatory work to
>>> reduce ITAR/EAR burden, produced a wide variety of software and firmware,
>>> and now have the funds to prototype the hardware required for microwave
>>> broadband communications payloads.
>>>
>>> We've published open source implementations of the best forward error
>>> correction codes that exist. We just bought a full Vivado floating license
>>> that anyone in the community can use.
>>>
>>> The board and associate members (we have no paid members, so we don't
>>> even compete there) have been completely transparent about the intent and
>>> purpose of the engineering done by ORI.
>>>
>>> ORI is a Member Society of AMSAT.
>>>
>>> It's odd how ORI is portrayed here, yet Directors current and previous
>>> that have dual roles - such as working for NASA, working at Universities
>>> with commercial satellite projects, and working for commercial satellite
>>> companies - simply never get any criticism for using AMSAT to help their
>>> career or projects. In many cases, AMSAT has been used to further outside
>>> or commercial careers. Many of these people are unquestionably celebrated.
>>>
>>> When someone (like myself) that starts a successful 501(c)(3) that works
>>> in the opposite direction - freely giving to the organization and
>>> supporting it whenever possible - one would hope it would be perceived
as a
>>> positive.
>>>
>>> All of this engineering and fundraising was the exact sort of thing I was
>>> doing within AMSAT engineering. When Joe Spier shut down the entire
>>> project, the dozens of people on the team asked if we could keep going.
>>> Bruce Perens was instrumental here in helping set up a 501(c)(3) that
could
>>> operate as a research institute. And the rest is documented on our
website.
>>>
>>> While people like me shouldn't have to set up an entirely independent
>>> formal structure to volunteer for the AMSAT community, it has turned out
to
>>> be fun, successful, and quite complementary to AMSAT's aims and purposes.
>>>
>>> ORI is not a membership organization. It's not in competition for
>>> members. We sign up AMSAT members at every event we hold. We promote AMSAT
>>> publicly.
>>>
>>> If the leadership of AMSAT really wants to view organizations like ORI as
>>> some sort of threat or crisis, then they are deliberately choosing to be
>>> anti-collaborative.
>>>
>>> If you have to have Directors that don't have any other interests outside
>>> AMSAT, then you will end up with people that don't bring things like a
>>> strong network, experiences, or other organizational assets to the job.
>>>
>>> Should Tom Clark have been thrown off the AMSAT board because he was also
>>> on the Virginia Tech Space Advisory Board? Should Brennan Price not be
>>> Secretary because he works for Inmarsat?
>>>
>>> The opposite is also true. Ordinary people with ordinary common sense
>>> should also be in leadership. Diversity on the board can only improve it.
>>>
>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 1:43 PM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB <
>>> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm guessing it's more complex than that. I suspect this is really about
>>>> ORI and trying to get AMSAT to outsource their satellite engineering to
>>>> ORI. MIchelle Thompson is the CEO of ORI...
>>>>
>>>> https://openresearch.institute/board-of-directors/
>>>>
>>>> Rich, KD2CQ
>>>> AMSAT life member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM John Spasojevich via AMSAT-BB <
>>>> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> All reads to me like a couple people broke into the old boys club and
>>>>> weren?t welcomed to the playground. AMSAT has been run by the same
>>>> people
>>>>> for years and years and years. Then again not many run for office so
>>>> our
>>>>> choices are limited.
>>>>>
>>>>> John AG9D
>>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, July 11, 2020, Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a hobby
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Spending money on lawyer instead of satellite is dumb
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My hope is you get on a Zoom call and put the fire out and take us
>>>> to HEO
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nickk k5qxj
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cell 337 258 2527
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Helping UL become a world Class Engineering and Educational School
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Disagree I Learn
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>>> available
>>>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>>> Opinions
>>>>>> expressed
>>>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>>> views of
>>>>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>>> program!
>>>>>> Subscription settings:
>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> Opinions
>>>>> expressed
>>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>>> of
>>>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> program!
>>>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>> Opinions expressed
>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>>>> AMSAT-NA.
>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> program!
>>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>
>>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 22:25:57 -0700
> From: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle@?????.???>
> To: Robert Bankston <ke4al@?????.???>, Robert Bankston
> <ke4al@?????.???>
> Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] WA9JBQ Request (Kevin)
> Message-ID:
> <CACvjz2XZ+vv1O9-Ujx=TU5MRucLN=E9ZAo4Foo1xX5LRquUyzg@????.?????.???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> That isn't true.
>
> What you are saying is an easily disproven lie.
>
> It took a demand letter, spelling out DC corporate code, to get access to
> ordinary corporate documents and communications.
>
> That is a simple legal fact, confirmed by Clayton Coleman himself.
>
> You can have your own opinions, but you do not get to have your own facts.
>
> If the members reading this want change, then please change the leadership.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 13:41 Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???>
> wrote:
>
>> Patrick Stoddard and Michelle Thompson were emplaced on the Board as
>> Directors and aforded the same rights and privileges as the the other
>> elected and standing Directors. No one treated them as "second class"
>> Directors. In fact, every effort was made to welcome them on the Board.
>> Stoddard and Thompson had the ability to make motions, lead discussions
>> and vote, just as the other five directors, and they did. At no time were
>> either of them prevented from doing their elected duties. To say otherwise
>> is a completely FALSE statement. AMSAT is a nonprofit corporation with the
>> purpose of designing, building, launching, operating and promoting amateur
>> radio satellites and space communications. AMSAT's leadership and
>> volunteers work every day to do this. We have a lot of opportunities on
>> the horizon with GOLF-TEE, GOLF-1, our return to high Earth Orbits, and
>> AREx. AMSAT is no place for politics and political rhetoric. Let's get
>> back to work. Robert, KE4AL
>> TreasurerVice-President, User ServicesDirector, AMSAT AmbassadorsRadio
>> Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
>>
>> On Saturday, July 11, 2020, 01:58:16 PM CDT, Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>
>> <And how would you describe the ethics of the two newest boardmembers
>> each creating online blogs where they cast doubt on AMSAT andthe people
>> running it? A little over a month on the BOD and in Octalready on that blog
>> posting grievances.>
>> Rememnber, the new members were duly elected and then discriminated
>> against because the board didn't like the fact that they won. So, they were
>> given a "junior' status, which is not what we elected them to be. That is
>> dirty pool. Very unethical.
>> Brad KC9UQR
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 09:21:55 +0000
> From: Matthias Bopp <matthias.bopp@?????.??>
> To: "amsat-bb@?????.???? <amsat-bb@?????.???>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
> Message-ID:
>
<LEXPR01MB049322C02B524499682BE3F4DE630@?????????????.????????.????.???????.??
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi,
>
> My understanding is that the AMSAT-BB was meant to be an international
forum for AMSAT members and people interested in it, not just for AMSAT-NA.
>
> Presently it seems to me that it is dominantly an AMSAT-NA forum dealing
with internal problems in a way, which is harming the image of AMSAT
worldwide.
> Many people might confuse "AMSAT-NA" with "AMSAT" worldwide respectively
other national AMSAT organizations.
>
> Therefore, I support the proposal from Zach to move the AMSAT-NA internal
non-technical discussions to a separate "AMSAT-NA" forum.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Matthias
>
> www.dd1us.de
>
>
>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 4:57 PM Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I propose that a new list be created, separate from amsat-bb, for
>> discussion of administrative issues regarding AMSAT. This would
>> improve the SNR of amsat-bb for those of us who just want to play
>> radio and work satellites.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --- Zach
>> N0ZGO
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
>> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to
all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 06:40:15 -0500
> From: "Alan" <wa4sca@?????.???>
> To: <amsat-bb@?????.???>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
> Message-ID: <000001d65841$368bf9f0$a3a3edd0$@?????.???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I sympathize about concerns for discussion forums which become monopolized
> by something which is profoundly uninteresting or even offensive. Going
> offline until it dies down or moving to another venue are viable solutions,
> and I have utilized both. However, in some cases that is a double edged
> sword.
>
> I used to be a member of an international social/hobby organization which
> dwarfs AMSAT and even the ARRL in membership and finances. Paraphrasing and
> compressing the situation somewhat, we had an initially very small but
> focused group of "reformers" who wished to make changes to the organization
> to modernize it, and to push "the old guard" out. There were many soothing
> words, and the "reformers" became very adept at using the organizations own
> rules in creative ways to further their cause. Many of the local chapters
> explicitly or implicitly discouraged any discussions of the issues since
> that always resulted in "conflict." It came to pass that the reformers
> achieved their goals, and set about instituting their enlightened policies.
> Despite all the honeyed words, nothing which was promised about new members
> and projects came to pass. The organization currently still exists, but with
> cratering membership and finances.
>
> So how does that apply here? I encounter people I used to know there who are
> wondering what happened, and how? "Why didn't somebody warn us?!" Some had
> been the most adamant in keeping anything which would cause "conflict" out.
> For me, a classic case of not being sure whether to laugh or cry. Of course
> what can take a generation in a large organization can happen in the blink
> of an eye in a small one. If you don't pay attention now, you may well be
> wondering what happened sooner rather than later. A true cautionary tale
> that sometimes what you do not wish to deal with is what you should give the
> most attention. Choose wisely.
>
> 73,
>
> Alan
> WA4SCA
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 18:49:01 +0400
> From: Jean Marc Momple <jean.marc.momple@?????.???>
> To: Zach Metzinger <zmetzing@?????.???>
> Cc: "amsat-bb@?????.???? <amsat-bb@?????.???>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
> Message-ID: <54EF6DBA-9A1C-466A-BA91-0B36506B73FD@?????.???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Zach,
>
> I also support your proposal or suggest to the AMSAT-NA (I am a member)
leaders to stop asap the politics on the BB which to my humble opinion is
not an electoral platform were the mud should be thrown, but a platform for
international exchange of ideas, sharing infos and friendship. I also agree
with Matthias that all this is tarnishing our image worldwide thus reducing
our chances for sponsorship and towards authorities such as regulators
across the globe. The harm has already be made but let's try to mitigate the
consequences by acting ?professionally? and try to correct things now.
>
> The opponents have other means such as direct mail, the blogs, facebook
etc? to make their point to AMSAT-NA members for the coming elections, my
opinion is already made about all this dispute and I will vote accordingly.
>
> 73
>
>
> Jean Marc (3B8DU)
>
>
>
>> On Jul 12, 2020, at 1:21 PM, Matthias Bopp via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> My understanding is that the AMSAT-BB was meant to be an international
forum for AMSAT members and people interested in it, not just for AMSAT-NA.
>>
>> Presently it seems to me that it is dominantly an AMSAT-NA forum dealing
with internal problems in a way, which is harming the image of AMSAT
worldwide.
>> Many people might confuse "AMSAT-NA" with "AMSAT" worldwide respectively
other national AMSAT organizations.
>>
>> Therefore, I support the proposal from Zach to move the AMSAT-NA internal
non-technical discussions to a separate "AMSAT-NA" forum.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Matthias
>>
>> www.dd1us.de
>>
>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 4:57 PM Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I propose that a new list be created, separate from amsat-bb, for
>>> discussion of administrative issues regarding AMSAT. This would
>>> improve the SNR of amsat-bb for those of us who just want to play
>>> radio and work satellites.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> --- Zach
>>> N0ZGO
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
>>> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to
all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 23:32:04 -0400
> From: "Daniel Schultz" <n8fgv@???.???>
> To: <amsat-bb@?????.???>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Proposal for new list
> Message-ID: <433ygLDfe8576Set.1594524724@?????.???.???.???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>> I propose that a new list be created, separate from amsat-bb, for
>> discussion of administrative issues regarding AMSAT. This would improve
>> the SNR of amsat-bb for those of us who just want to play radio and work
>> satellites.
>>
>> There are various areas of interest for me, and mud-slinging is not one
>> of them. Building stuff is what I'm here for, and I'm heavily engaged in
>> that.
>
>
> These satellites don't just build themselves. If you choose not to get
> involved with YOUR organization, then don't post on amsat-bb someday
wondering
> why there are no more satellites available for you to "play radio" with.
>
> For some, this may be "just a hobby", for those who volunteer to serve AMSAT
> with their personal time and effort, it is much more than "just a hobby". I
> believe that every volunteer comes to AMSAT to serve the cause of keeping
> amateur radio in space, but may see different ways to move the organization
> forward toward that goal.
>
> There is a Board election coming up very soon. Like all elections, it
behooves
> you as a good citizen of AMSAT to be informed of the issues and make a wise
> choice in voting for your elected representatives. As my high school civics
> teacher (and probably yours) said, "if you don't vote, you don't have a
right
> to complain".
>
> 73, Dan Schultz N8FGV
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 08:16:07 -0700
> From: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle@?????.???>
> To: APBIDDLE@???????.???? Alan <wa4sca@?????.???>
> Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
> Message-ID:
> <CACvjz2V9uqxTaa6x5361+WCMJ+SyKuzrLGy8xnWdZu_Omn+_Bw@????.?????.???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
>
> Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally have
> been made.
>
> This failed.
>
> Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what we did
> along the way.
>
> This worked.
>
> Patrick and I are in the clear.
>
> The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
>
> They claim the entire board knew about it.
>
> There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when we
> joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election can
> solve.
>
> Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
>
> Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before an
> election, is simply the right thing to do.
>
> I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were announced.
>
> Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly
> unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though. This
> is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
>
> Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not have
> to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and easily
> resolved reasons.
>
> Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending definitely is.
>
> If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will vote to
> return the same people to their jobs.
>
> I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates that
> will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward.
> Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
>
> We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.
>
> Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>
>> I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of
>> improper
>> behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with concern, but
>> also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred in the
>> 30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution, because
>> the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a holiday
>> week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical
>> political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they believed
>> the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have
>> brought
>> them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations were
>> either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the most
>> charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but egregious
>> errors in judgement by the accusers.
>>
>> I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these unwarranted
>> accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so grievously
>> misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused AMSAT. It
>> would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken trust
>> with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum they
>> should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they represent a
>> vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified
>> candidates to replace them without their baggage.
>>
>> Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board
>> candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors, or
>> been
>> endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
>>
>> Alan Biddle
>> WA4SCA
>> Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
> AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons
worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 233
> *****************************************
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 17:10:39 -0500
From: Chad KG0MW <chad.kg0mw@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Directors Stoddard and Thompson
Message-ID: <42E0BD45-9C32-40D4-8F07-EF5C0C3D1705@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
In my opinion what the membership wants is a productive organization that is
actively working on the next generation of sats. I believe they also want
better education of how to work satellites and sat communication in general.
They also want a BoD they can trust in (Which they do and have).
The incumbents have done a tremendous job keeping an organization with low
overall funds alive and kicking.
Trying to say the President or any other Director has done anything to hurt,
defund, embarrass AMSAT is wrong. There was not misspending of funds.
EVERYONE involved was on the lookout and protection of this great
organization.
MIchelle, you are right in that we need to send volunteers to the board who
will support AMSAT. That includes its future AND legacy. Through all of
this, one thing I think and hope has happened is that more people will stand
up to volunteer in any capacity. AMSAT has cried for volunteers for a long
time. We all send in our minimum $44 and expect a satellite will magically
appear in orbit. It cannot be done without constructive communication and
behavior.
Because you call someone out on misspending of funds, does not automatically
make them guilty and proves nothing.
You are also correct in that we need a better volunteer experience. In my
opinion that includes conversation and communications should be between the
directors. Not necessarily always made public. Doing so has done nothing but
stain our reputation and push members away. Sadly the legal funds spent were
needed. If we compare the cost of how many memberships that equates to, then
lets try to compare that to how many members have we lost the support of. Or
how about new members it scares away!?
Have a blessed day. To be continued I am sure?
Chad
Chad Phillips
KG0MW
Amsat Ambassador
www.kg0mw.com
> On Jul 11, 2020, at 1:37 PM, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> I recommend researching the bios of the people running for the Board for
> 2020 election.
>
> The incumbents have tried to make this about currently serving Directors,
> as if it's a referendum on our oversight. If that's the case, then good.
> Let them.
>
> If the membership wants clean and transparent financial behavior, then
> please replace the men that secretly hired a law firm and blocked access to
> corporate records and communications.
>
> They have admitted they secretly hired this firm, admitted that the
> demand letter was the only reason they restored access, and have halted
> regular meetings.
>
> How can one productively work with people that refuse to even meet?
>
> Please send volunteers to the board that won't act like this. There will be
> significant and long-lasting improvement. This will take a lot of work.
> However, everyone will get increased benefit from your membership dues,
> better communications, and a better volunteer experience across the
> organization.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 2:43 PM Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???>
> wrote:
>
>> I am able to find Director Thompson's bio but I'm unable to find anything
>> about Director Stoddard. Is there a bio with work history, background,
>> education, volunteer work, and so on?
>>
>> I'm curious.
>>
>> Bob W7OTJ
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 17:15:13 -0500
From: Chad KG0MW <chad.kg0mw@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
Message-ID: <B56205F9-8D49-470B-88FC-BEE714A42F85@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I did read and do not believe what they are accusing the board of. I feel I
know that board members well enough to put my support behind them. I have
never met anyone involved with AMSAT that wanted to hurt the organization in
any way. To say they misspent the money I feel is wrong. They did so to
protect the organization. Sadly lawyers are not cheap and the money had to
be spent. The accusations is what will tear us at the seams?
chad
Chad Phillips
KG0MW
Amsat Ambassador
www.kg0mw.com
> On Jul 12, 2020, at 4:03 PM, Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> Brad,
>
> What transparency and progress has been brought to the organization
> from the members that you speak of? Specifically? It appears that
> since they were voted in, everyone in the organization is now walking
> on egg-shells. The BB is now plastered with emails asking which words
> mean what feelings, name calling and chasing after the organization
> using whatever legal means the wizards-of-smart can conjure up all in
> the name of almighty, all-righeous, '''transparency'''. It all seems
> rather insincere and unproductive to me. People like this should do
> the organization a favor, and leave, run their own competing
> organization and take whatever people and dollars happen to follow
> them.
>
> I would honestly like to return to the ARISSat-1 days, where it was
> just full-speed-ahead engineering and not all this talk all about
> 'saving AMSAT' and ORI garbage. All this ORI promotion on the BB, is
> absolute garbage. No rational AMSAT member should be OK with that,
> especially from an AMSAT BOD member. ORI is a separate, competing
> organization and their bylaws are..... telling. If AMSATs bylaws were
> ever amended to be anything like those, you can kiss your membership
> goodbye, ref: https://openresearch.institute/organization-documents.
> Their bylaws literally say "Membership shall consist of the Board of
> Directors.". Quite an Open organization, indeed!
>
> But I digress... The more of these kinds of people you vote in, the
> more the organization is going to be hurt, guaranteed. Because not
> only is nothing going to get done, obviously some people don't want to
> work with them for whatever-reasons and THAT actually is important.
> And, the reasons are important too. Have you wondered why...? I do!
> As a small business owner, when I hear such-and-such doesn't want to
> work with so-and-so, I immediately want to ask "What happened"? From
> what the email traffic looks like, it seems like you may have to worry
> about legal action for everything you say or do around them or, maybe
> there was some pre-election history that most of the people that voted
> for them, didn't know about. I have no clue, but this all does make
> me wonder.
>
> Either way, it seems like the state of things right now is Much Worst
> than it was prior-to the last election, so... Not sure why anyone
> would want more of this. For me, the socio-political environment is
> just as important as the engi-nerding portion.. At the very least,
> BOD members need to be promoting the organization they are on the
> board of and noone should have to worry about legal retaliation over
> every little thing.
>
> Joseph Armbruster
> KJ4JIO
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 3:58 PM Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>
>> If you care about the AMSAT organization continuing to help hams in space
communications, please read and reread Patrick's and Michelle's
explanations. They layout exactly what happened. Now we learn that the
expenditure is over 16k. That is 363 memberships, if this retired engineer's
math is correct. This is money wasted to beat down two members who want
transparency and progress. This was not right. Our money was wasted! I am
anxious for the election.
>>
>> Again, I ask that members do not resign over this. That helps nobody and
hurts out hobby, which has already taken a huge hit. Solve this with your
voting privilege.
>>
>> 73 Brad KC9UQR
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 18:15:46 -0400
From: Rich Gopstein <rich@????????????.???>
To: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Leadership Explanation ...
Message-ID:
<CANsNeaqHjwHAodCpN9pH+BC=JxOQ0SicNxGtZmc8gjBazcrN8A@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Thanks. That helps. I appreciate your willingness to answer my questions.
Rich
KD2CQ
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 4:50 PM Michelle Thompson <
mountain.michelle@?????.???> wrote:
> I understand and appreciate your questions and interest. I don't take
> offense at any of the questions. I know it's not a fun subject, not very
> pleasant, and many people do not care or find the entire thing annoying.
> Yes, it's annoying.
>
> The minutes are the record of board activity.
>
> If an expense is not in the record, and it's not an ordinary expense, it
> is unauthorized. This could have been easy to rectify.
>
> This wasn't printer cartridges or annual travel or catering for an annual
> dinner. It was not handled like the hiring of FD Associates, the consulting
> firm, which was providing things that help the mission of the organization.
> It was the hiring of a Manhattan law firm, whose work products were, among
> other things, advice on how to slow down or obstruct access to records.
> That does not help the mission of the organization.
>
> These were not ordinary business expenses. The responsibility of oversight
> lies with the Directors. It's our job to ask questions about things like
> this. We are just doing our jobs.
>
> Board members that got together and did this before we were elected
> completely refused to talk about it and refused to meet to resolve it.
> Criticism is not an existential threat. Nuking people from orbit with
> lawyers because you don't like their complaints creates very bad karma.
>
> One could take an extremely broad view of legal expenses and accept any
> legal expenditure as ok. We don't think that view serves any organization
> very well, and it is not how AMSAT handled other expenses, like FD
> Associates. Therefore we spoke up.
>
> If Patrick and I were completely wrong about this, then the legal letter
> we commissioned would have had no effect. It would have been answered
> differently.
>
> Once confronted with a letter summarizing why AMSAT was in the wrong, and
> asking for specific relief citing specific case law, Joe Spier resigned.
> There was a phone conference between the law firms and the AMSAT lawyer
> backed down and agreed to all the contents of the letter. Clayton Coleman
> took over as President and addressed the access to records within, I
> believe, a week. He acknowledged the problem and we got to work on several
> overdue items. Things were looking very good, we were moving forward.
> Clayton does not deserve calls for his resignation, hate mail, or anything
> like that. He is President during a very difficult time, in several ways. I
> told him he had my support.
>
> If we had gotten an acknowledgement that this was a bad decision, and
> accounted for it and reconciled internally, we would not have gone to the
> membership with the report. This is a problem that an apology could have
> fixed. The majority wanted an election instead.
>
> If you (or anyone else) has any further questions, please feel free to
> call. I'm in the volunteer directory. Or, you can email me for my home
> phone.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:51 AM Rich Gopstein <rich@????????????.???>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks. I think we're getting closer :)
>>
>> It sounds like the "unauthorized expenses" were incurred before you and
>> Patrick were on the board. And the belief that they were unauthorized is
>> based solely on reading the AMSAT board meeting minutes? So if those
>> expenses were authorized through some day-to-day operational procedure,
>> then they wouldn't have shown up in the board meeting minutes?
>>
>> Note - I'm not defending the actions, just trying to understand if they
>> were outside of the bylaws. So far, there isn't any direct evidence that
>> they were - unless I'm misunderstanding something.
>>
>> Rich
>> KD2CQ
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 1:26 PM Michelle Thompson <
>> mountain.michelle@?????.???> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, I can try. You are correct. There is, and definitely should be,
>>> latitude for ordinary day to day budgeted expenditures.
>>>
>>> An unauthorized expense is when money was spent for something it was
>>> not allocated for, or if the amount spent goes over a set amount.
>>>
>>> Both cases occur here. There was a $4k overage to a consulting firm. The
>>> first $10k was properly authorized. But, officers just kept spending past
>>> the limit.
>>>
>>> Hiring a law firm needs to be carefully documented, especially when
>>> historically legal expenses are often zero.
>>>
>>> Authorized and expected costs include things like trademark and
>>> regulatory consulting and review.
>>>
>>> Anything out of the ordinary, an unusual or unanticipated reason, or
>>> something regarding liability, loss, and many personnel decisions, needs
>>> authorization.
>>>
>>> The authorization for FD Associates appears in AMSAT meeting minutes.
>>>
>>> Hiring Hurwit does not appear in the minutes.
>>>
>>> A variety of unusual and personally motivated expenses followed.
>>>
>>> Targeting individual members (the denial of access, the NDA runaround,
>>> the false claims of conflicts of interest were all advised by Hurwit) and
>>> then attempting to move these expenses to "overhead", is an unauthorized
>>> and improper use of member money.
>>>
>>> Mentioning us by name in payments, and grossly mischaracterizing mild
>>> complaints and requests for help as deserving of a nuclear response, is an
>>> unethical use of money.
>>>
>>> The board needed to go on the record about this contract, given the very
>>> unusual nature of the expenses which did not fit into a budgeted or
>>> recurring category, but they did not.
>>>
>>> I understand you may discount my opinion.
>>>
>>> That is why we hired a corporate governance specialist who reviewed
>>> everything. She also wrote the demand letter that finally got me and
>>> Patrick access to records in early February, four and a half months after
>>> we were supposed to start our terms.
>>>
>>> She reviewed the additional documents we now had access to and explained
>>> that some expensss were unauthorized and improper.
>>>
>>> We made our case to the board, looking to resolve this. They were silent
>>> and completely uncooperative, until recently.
>>>
>>> The change happened when we asked to see copies of all the Hurwit checks.
>>>
>>> I campaigned for transparency. Without financial transparency, many
>>> other things simply don't work well.
>>>
>>> I'm optimistic there can be meaningful improvement.
>>>
>>> -Michelle W5NYV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 09:14 Rich Gopstein <rich@????????????.???> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Could you clarify "unauthorized"? Not disclosing the expenditure after
>>>> the fact is different from authorization. Just trying to understand why
>>>> the expenditures were not authorized. I took a look at the bylaws, and
>>>> it's clear that officers can be given latitude to make expenditures on
>>>> behalf of AMSAT without board approval for each expenditure (as you would
>>>> expect - it would be impractical for the board to have to approve every
>>>> expenditure).
>>>>
>>>> Rich
>>>> KD2CQ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 11:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
>>>> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The unauthorized expenditures have been admitted to.
>>>>>
>>>>> Months of attempts to call a board meeting and address it internally
>>>>> have
>>>>> been made.
>>>>>
>>>>> This failed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Legal advice was sought. We proceeded carefully, and documented what
>>>>> we did
>>>>> along the way.
>>>>>
>>>>> This worked.
>>>>>
>>>>> Patrick and I are in the clear.
>>>>>
>>>>> The officer and employee who signed these checks are not.
>>>>>
>>>>> They claim the entire board knew about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are no records of this contract. It was not disclosed to us when
>>>>> we
>>>>> joined. Adding in denial of access, we have problems only an election
>>>>> can
>>>>> solve.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unlike other things we do, this isn't rocket science.
>>>>>
>>>>> Speaking up to give members a chance to get a functional board, before
>>>>> an
>>>>> election, is simply the right thing to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't select the weekend the nominations to the board were
>>>>> announced.
>>>>>
>>>>> Preferring I resign instead of allowing a large amount of unrepentantly
>>>>> unauthorized spending to continue is a mistake. Understandable though.
>>>>> This
>>>>> is upsetting. Please try not to shoot the messengers too many times.
>>>>>
>>>>> Members should get real value out of the membership. They should not
>>>>> have
>>>>> to pay for secretly hired law firms. Especially for such trivial and
>>>>> easily
>>>>> resolved reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>> Criticism isn't an existential crisis. Unauthorized spending
>>>>> definitely is.
>>>>>
>>>>> If members agree with spending their money this way, then they will
>>>>> vote to
>>>>> return the same people to their jobs.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have faith in great potential for improvement. There are candidates
>>>>> that
>>>>> will follow the law and the bylaws and were willing to step forward.
>>>>> Robert, Howie, and Jeff.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are fortunate to have a choice. This year it makes a big difference.
>>>>>
>>>>> Michelle W5NYV
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 00:52 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > I read the recent allegations by Directors Stoddard and Thompson of
>>>>> > improper
>>>>> > behavior on the part of some AMSAT Officers and Directors with
>>>>> concern, but
>>>>> > also caution. Concern, because nothing remotely similar has occurred
>>>>> in the
>>>>> > 30+ years I have been a Member and sometimes Board Member. Caution,
>>>>> because
>>>>> > the nature of the accusations and particularly the timing during a
>>>>> holiday
>>>>> > week in the AMSAT election cycle had all the hallmarks of a cynical
>>>>> > political hit. That is now the most plausible explanation. If they
>>>>> believed
>>>>> > the serious allegations to be true, it was irresponsible not to have
>>>>> > brought
>>>>> > them to the attention of the Members before now. These accusations
>>>>> were
>>>>> > either carefully crafted for maximum political effect, or to put the
>>>>> most
>>>>> > charitable face on it, represent genuinely honest concern but
>>>>> egregious
>>>>> > errors in judgement by the accusers.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I call on Directors Thompson and Stoddard, in light of these
>>>>> unwarranted
>>>>> > accusations, to apologize publically to both those they have so
>>>>> grievously
>>>>> > misrepresented, and to the Members for the harm they have caused
>>>>> AMSAT. It
>>>>> > would be honorable to resign because of how badly they have broken
>>>>> trust
>>>>> > with the organization and its Members. Lacking that, at a minimum
>>>>> they
>>>>> > should pledge not to seek reelection. If as they claim they
>>>>> represent a
>>>>> > vision with wide support, surely they can find genuinely qualified
>>>>> > candidates to replace them without their baggage.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Hopefully AMSAT Members will consider carefully which current Board
>>>>> > candidates have either expressed support for these failed Directors,
>>>>> or
>>>>> > been
>>>>> > endorsed by them. There are other, better, proven candidates.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Alan Biddle
>>>>> > WA4SCA
>>>>> > Past Board Member and Corporate Secretary
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>>>>> available
>>>>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>>> Opinions
>>>>> > expressed
>>>>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>>>>> views of
>>>>> > AMSAT-NA.
>>>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>>> program!
>>>>> > Subscription settings:
>>>>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>> >
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>>>>> Opinions expressed
>>>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>>>>> of AMSAT-NA.
>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>>> program!
>>>>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>>
>>>>
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 237
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