| |
CX2SA > SATDIG 14.07.20 04:30l 1058 Lines 38491 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : AMSATBB15249
Read: GUEST
Subj: AMSAT-BB-digest V15 249
Path: IW8PGT<IZ3LSV<DB0ERF<DB0RES<ON0AR<OZ5BBS<CX2SA
Sent: 200714/0227Z @:CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM #:34913 [Salto] FBB7.00e $:AMSATBB15249
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Brief summary of the "unauthorized expenses" claim
(Michelle Thompson)
2. Re: Brief summary of the "unauthorized expenses" claim
(Rich Gopstein)
3. Re: A question (W3AB/GEO)
4. Re: A question (W3AB/GEO)
5. Large AZ/El disk rotors (Ollie Eisman)
6. Re: Reading is fundamental (Jeff Moore)
7. Re: Reading is fundamental (Peter)
8. Re: AMSAT Member Mailing list (egon)
9. Re: children (sean fay)
10. Re: huskysat-1 (Don KB2YSI)
11. Re: Mr David Swanson..... (Tucker McGuire)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 14:58:03 -0700
From: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle@?????.???>
To: Steve Kristoff <skristof@???????.???>
Cc: Amsat - BBs <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Brief summary of the "unauthorized expenses"
claim
Message-ID:
<CACvjz2UBgkg0xja-y8ea4FtmOjkJfcESB47f-xmr0kgAkvcaQQ@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Yes. That's the problem.
Some AMSAT board members claim the expenses are authorized. They wrote a 3
page letter about it to AMSAT-BB.
Neither a record of approval, nor a delegation of these expenses, ever
appear in the minutes. *Unlike the hiring of FD Associates, which was
legit, and appears in the minutes*
Even if we were objecting to boring expenses, instead of spicy personalized
vendetta advice having nothing to do with keeping amateur radio in space,
then they'd still be in the wrong.
This could have been resolved in less than a half hour.
The rest of the board denied it for most of a year, hid it almost the whole
time, and now are defending it to the death.
Please, send us people that we can work with, will agree to have meetings,
and will fix this sort of thing.
Those of you impatient to get back to working on space, we feel the exact
same way.
Oversight isn't optional, and financial health is required for doing large
and complex projects.
Secretly hiring law firms is not healthy.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 2:47 PM Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> But even in your own evaluation there are contradictions.
>
> Quote from your email: "If an expense went to the board for approval, it
> would show up in the
> minutes of that board meeting."
>
> Further down your email: "- In this case, the members of the AMSAT board
> at the time said that the
> expenses were authorized."
>
>
> Then, by your own evaluation of the by-laws, if the members of the board
> authorized the expenditures (second quote), shouldn't that authorization
> show up in the minutes of the board meeting? (first quote)
>
> Steve AI9IN
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb@?????.????
> Date: 07/13/20 15:25
> To: Amsat - BBs (AMSAT-BB@?????.????
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Brief summary of the "unauthorized expenses" claim
>
> First: I'm not a lawyer. These are my observations only.
>
> This is what I learned over the past few days while researching the claim
> that the AMSAT money spent on legal services related to the new directors
> was "unauthorized".
>
> - I read the AMSAT bylaws. They are very readable, BTW - and not long.
> - The bylaws say that expenses can be authorized either by the board
> itself or by the officers of AMSAT if the board delegates that authority.
> - If an expense went to the board for approval, it would show up in the
> minutes of that board meeting.
> - If an expense were authorized by an officer, then it wouldn't show up
> in the minutes of a board meeting.
> - The claim that the expenses were unauthorized was based on the
> observation that there was no record in the board meeting minutes of the
> authorization. However, as mentioned above, not everything has to go to
> the board for approval. And that decision is up to the board itself.
> - In this case, the members of the AMSAT board at the time said that the
> expenses were authorized.
> - Since the board has the authority to authorize expenditures (directly
> or indirectly) and they say the expenses were authorized, that indicates
> to
> me that the expenses were authorized.
>
> Note: Michelle and Patrick were not members of the board when this
> happened. They were analyzing this after the fact.
>
> Rich
> KD2CQ
> AMSAT Life Member
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 18:03:13 -0400
From: Rich Gopstein <rich@????????????.???>
To: Steve Kristoff <skristof@???????.???>
Cc: Amsat - BBs <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Brief summary of the "unauthorized expenses"
claim
Message-ID:
<CANsNeap=vWYZMOaQsmLHtu-asnSmf1O17faADiQgdTLgHk7OCg@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Let me clarify:
I said "the board said the expenses were authorized."
I didn't say "the board directly authorized the expenses"
The implication is that the officers authorized the expenses and the board
was OK with that. And since it's up to the board to decide what the
officers can or can't authorize, the fact that they said that the expenses
were authorized should be sufficient.
Rich
On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:46 PM Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> But even in your own evaluation there are contradictions.
>
> Quote from your email: "If an expense went to the board for approval, it
> would show up in the
> minutes of that board meeting."
>
> Further down your email: "- In this case, the members of the AMSAT board
> at the time said that the
> expenses were authorized."
>
>
> Then, by your own evaluation of the by-laws, if the members of the board
> authorized the expenditures (second quote), shouldn't that authorization
> show up in the minutes of the board meeting? (first quote)
>
> Steve AI9IN
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb@?????.????
> Date: 07/13/20 15:25
> To: Amsat - BBs (AMSAT-BB@?????.????
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Brief summary of the "unauthorized expenses" claim
>
> First: I'm not a lawyer. These are my observations only.
>
> This is what I learned over the past few days while researching the claim
> that the AMSAT money spent on legal services related to the new directors
> was "unauthorized".
>
> - I read the AMSAT bylaws. They are very readable, BTW - and not long.
> - The bylaws say that expenses can be authorized either by the board
> itself or by the officers of AMSAT if the board delegates that authority.
> - If an expense went to the board for approval, it would show up in the
> minutes of that board meeting.
> - If an expense were authorized by an officer, then it wouldn't show up
> in the minutes of a board meeting.
> - The claim that the expenses were unauthorized was based on the
> observation that there was no record in the board meeting minutes of the
> authorization. However, as mentioned above, not everything has to go to
> the board for approval. And that decision is up to the board itself.
> - In this case, the members of the AMSAT board at the time said that the
> expenses were authorized.
> - Since the board has the authority to authorize expenditures (directly
> or indirectly) and they say the expenses were authorized, that indicates
> to
> me that the expenses were authorized.
>
> Note: Michelle and Patrick were not members of the board when this
> happened. They were analyzing this after the fact.
>
> Rich
> KD2CQ
> AMSAT Life Member
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 15:29:45 -0700
From: W3AB/GEO <w3ab@?????.???>
To: Efrem Acosta <w2cz@?????????.???>
Cc: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] A question
Message-ID: <912e0b8c-a904-466a-8d73-76c3b4b48e22@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
No idea
?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?
On Jul 13, 2020, 15:22, at 15:22, Efrem Acosta via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>Is it true all posts now on this board are being held for approval by a
>moderator?
>
>
>
>73 De W2CZ
>Sent from my iPhone
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 15:30:37 -0700
From: W3AB/GEO <w3ab@?????.???>
To: Efrem Acosta <w2cz@?????????.???>
Cc: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] A question
Message-ID: <f10c748d-ff5a-415e-b6f8-2e1e783181fb@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
They don't appear to be.
?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?
On Jul 13, 2020, 15:22, at 15:22, Efrem Acosta via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>Is it true all posts now on this board are being held for approval by a
>moderator?
>
>
>
>73 De W2CZ
>Sent from my iPhone
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 15:59:51 -0600
From: Ollie Eisman <ollie@?????????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: [amsat-bb] Large AZ/El disk rotors
Message-ID: <842251bf-e5a5-bce9-6779-5ccc81ff82ed@?????????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Hi everyone,
I would like to attach a solid 8' fiberglass dish to an az/el rotor
system.? Does anyone have any experience with either Alfa Spid Big
RAK/RAEL system or the Sub Lunar EME rotor that Green Heron sells??
Curious to know how well they work, handle wind gusts, interface with a
PC, etc.
I like what M2 offers but their prices are a bit more than I can
afford.? I'm open to suggestions.
73,
Ollie AJ1O
AMSAT #19698
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 16:01:11 -0700
From: Jeff Moore <tnetcenter@?????.???>
To: Peter <pgprendergast@?????.???>
Cc: "amsat-bb@?????.???? <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Reading is fundamental
Message-ID:
<CALx_moQ9HC7GOn=nrRGeQQ0V5WchXBvzMbNGezuumQkqLas_vA@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Peter,
That's a pretty good assessment of what went on from everything I've seen
so far.
However, I disagree about the severity of the financial issues! I don't
know what the AMSAT-NA budget is, in reality, 4 or 5 dollars may not seem
like a big amount but when it is misappropriated it is still a crime and
someone needs to be made aware of the situation. We aren't talking 4 or 5
dollars here we're talking about 4 or 5 THOUSAND Dollars(or more) and that
IS NOT TRIVIAL - it is a major FELONY and needs to be addressed for anyone
to have confidence in AMSAT-NA's operations going forward.
My personal assessment of this at this point in time is along the lines of
the "good ole boy network" in charge doesn't like being caught making
questionable expenditures to the point that one of them felt it necessary
to RESIGN when all this came up. That suggests that something fishy is
going on and this all needs to be investigated by a 3rd party and if
necessary criminal charges need to be pursued against the responsible
parties.
On a slightly different related note - if the AMSAT-NA board is only
meeting once a year, how the hell is anything getting done???
If the incumbent board members are not willing to address these SERIOUS
issues - they should step down and let someone that will, take over!!
Trust me, it's NOT fun to remove a board member that is embezzling funds,
BUT IT HAS TO BE DONE REGARDLESS!!!
7 3
Jeff Moore -- KE7ACY
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 23:48:36 +0000 (UTC)
From: Peter <pgprendergast@?????.???>
To: Jeff Moore <tnetcenter@?????.???>
Cc: "amsat-bb@?????.???? <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Reading is fundamental
Message-ID: <257008219.1163130.1594684116824@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Jeff:? ? I am puzzled by the issue of crimes here?? No one embezzled monies
or at least no claim of that exists that I have read.Poor oversight, well a
good case for that could be made, but these other allegations are to much.?
? ? Putting some serious resources to an outside consultant firm like
?deloitte?and touche
|
|
| |
deloitte and touche - Google Search
|
|
|
?to come in, do a top to bottom?
evaluation of the functioning of the organization would be money well spent
in the long run.? Might be 75k, but without?a doubt the organization would
be more stable and accountable.? Proper on boarding training of board
members seemsto be long hanging fruit.??
? ?The current board has members who've got serious connections to the
aerospace industry.? Highly valued I would say,but that doesn't mean they
are qualified to run a business.? What would help tremendously here would be
to find folks to beon the board with serious business expertise, and use the
current human resources in a far more effective way than it appearsthey are
being used.
Peter
On Monday, July 13, 2020, 07:30:36 PM EDT, Jeff Moore
<tnetcenter@?????.???> wrote:
Peter,
That's a pretty good assessment of what went on from everything I've seen so
far.
However, I disagree about the severity of the financial issues!?? I don't
know what the AMSAT-NA budget is, in reality, 4 or 5 dollars may not seem
like a big amount but when it is misappropriated it is still a crime and
someone needs to be made aware of the situation. ? We aren't talking 4 or 5
dollars here we're talking about 4 or 5 THOUSAND Dollars(or more) and that
IS NOT TRIVIAL - it is a major FELONY and needs to be addressed for anyone
to have confidence in AMSAT-NA's operations going forward.
My personal assessment of this at this point in time is along the lines of
the "good ole boy network" in charge doesn't like being caught making
questionable expenditures to the point that one of them felt it necessary to
RESIGN when all this came up. ? That suggests that something fishy is going
on and this all needs to be investigated by a 3rd party and if necessary
criminal charges need to be pursued against the responsible parties.
On a slightly different related note - if the AMSAT-NA board is only meeting
once a year, how the hell is anything getting done???
If the incumbent board members are not willing to address these SERIOUS
issues - they should step down and let someone that will, take over!!
Trust me, it's NOT fun to remove a board member that is embezzling funds,
BUT IT HAS TO BE DONE REGARDLESS!!!
7? 3Jeff Moore? --? KE7ACY
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 17:54:14 -0600
From: "egon" <ve6egn@?????.???>
To: "Bob Liddy \(K8BL\)" <k8bl@?????????.???>, "Amsat"
<amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
Message-ID: <7BF45AECFCD94A7DA50457EF5A917FEB@??????>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
reply-type=original
Same here I have had it.
Egon VE6EGN/SA3EGN
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Liddy (K8BL) via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 2:50 PM
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Member Mailing list
AMSAT Membership,
OK.... I'm saturated!!!
AMSAT-BB is going to SPAM from this point on. My Mailbox has become filled
with non-stop posts about whatever this nightmare actually is and
whatcountless people are opining about it. I can't take any more and several
folksthat are long-time Members have told me the same. At this point, I
don't carehow it ends as long as it ends. I'll check back in a couple weeks.
73 & CUL, Bob K8BL (AMSAT #6593, Since 1979)
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 19:18:43 -0500
From: sean fay <spatrickfay@?????.???>
To: 73 Bob W7LRD <w7lrd@???????.???>
Cc: amsat-bb <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] children
Message-ID:
<CAEWsTrP3UZtiVk0Vk9nb3kQSNDU4A-_yrF_UWCHrpobKCG6Okw@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Do you think it's appropriate to infantilize a duly elected board member?
Sean Fay
AA0AN
On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 4:03 PM 73 Bob W7LRD via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> When my children were very young they would very occasionally get into
> fights and conflicts. I would put them both into a small room in the house
> and tell them, "you're not coming out until you can get along.
> > 73 Bob W7LRD
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 20:21:39 -0400
From: Don KB2YSI <kb2ysi@?????.???>
To: Jerry Buxton <n0jy@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] huskysat-1
Message-ID:
<CAAJiE8OWsC5YoZN5tRGdtimvwx_nyxDwPOPh6Za+7E+V34jTcQ@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
That is awesome, not the death of the bird, but the amazing amount of work
that went into getting the bird into space with an Amateur payload included.
The chance that more AMSAT LTMs will make it into space is awesome too!
More opportunities for passes during the times when I can work passes!
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 16:50 Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
> On 7/10/2020 09:47, Scott via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> > I have tried the linear transponder numerous times & as recently as a day
> > or two ago with nothing heard.
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 9:13 AM Rosa & Robert Fitzpatrick via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >> what is the latest status on huskysat-1.thank you bob/kb5sqgGranbury tx
> >>
> >
> While it is disappointing that the transponder did not see a longer
> period of use following the science missions, the overall
> HuskySat-1/HO-107 project and mission were quite beneficial for our
> partner and for AMSAT. The HuskySat-1 team were able to command their
> satellite and experiments and receive the telemetry they sought, and
> AMSAT was able to work through the extensive process of making a new
> design for a "black box" radio module that can be integrated into a
> non-AMSAT spacecraft and fly in the space environment.
>
> The LTM (Linear Transponder Module) on HO-107 worked for over three
> months after HuskySat-1 came alive following its deployment.
> The failure of the LTM came during or just after a period of full sun
> where LTM temperatures reached over 80 degrees Celsius.
>
> While licensed and operated as an amateur radio satellite by AMSAT
> during the transponder use, there are some facts that set HO-107 apart
> from our Fox-1 CubeSats and other AMSAT satellites.
>
> 1. It's not our satellite. We have no control and may not have any
> insight into how a partner actually uses the LTM. While we see the LTM
> temperatures and many of the other typical data fields that we downlink
> to FoxTelem regarding LTM health, data such as temperature of the host
> environment as well as other specific information like power and the
> state of the other systems in a host satellite may or may not be
> available to us. Whether LTM is operated within design limits is
> entirely up to the host.
>
> The University of Washington HuskySat Labs team was very cooperative
> with us on this mission, however there are things regarding their
> mission that we do not know because they are processing and studying
> their data for use in their thesis and classes and preparing it for
> release in a specific way typical of such an institution today. AMSAT
> is generally more forthcoming with information about our missions but
> what we can and have said about this mission is determined by UW.
> That is really no different to certain aspects of our own missions.
> Most members are likely familiar with the vague wording I provide for
> some of our launch timelines and that is the result of the same thing,
> in the owner of the launch vehicle or LSP/APIC determining what we can
> say to the public and when.
>
> 2. HO-107 was the first ever use of a new product, the AMSAT LTM. The
> LTM idea was first put forth at the AMSAT leadership strategic planning
> meeting in 2017 and is now coming into availability for other non-AMSAT
> CubeSats to fly amateur radio on their mission.
>
> HO-107 is the pilot production of LTM and was developed in partnership
> with UW HuskySat-1. It was the first CubeSat radio module designed and
> built by AMSAT for use in other host CubeSats, and UW was key in working
> with us through the design and processes needed to provide such a
> module. They did not buy it as, nor did we give it to them as an "off
> the shelf" product as we plan to for future LTM production. LTM was
> developed from the Fox-1E linear transponder design, and provided in a
> partnership with UW that started in November 2014 when we made an
> agreement with University of Washington to fly an amateur radio on their
> CubeSat mission. Overall, the HuskySat-1 team were quite happy with the
> telemetry and command performance even with the LTM anomalies showing up
> toward the end of their experiments. In the process of getting
> HuskySat-1 to orbit several students became interested in amateur radio,
> and we have already had preliminary discussions of future joint mission
> plans.
>
> The ability to provide more LTM to new and future partners will increase
> the number of orbiting satellites carrying amateur radio, at a low cost
> to AMSAT and the partner, keeping amateur radio in space even as we
> develop newer and more capable satellites. There is no doubt that
> HO-107 was a success in many ways beyond the operational life of the
> transponder.
>
> As usual, the AMSAT Engineering team of volunteers deserve the praise
> for putting yet another amateur radio in space be it in our own
> satellite, or in a partner satellite!
>
> Jerry Buxton, N?JY
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 20:37:42 -0400
From: Tucker McGuire <tucker@???????????.???>
To: Stefan Wagener <wageners@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Mr David Swanson.....
Message-ID:
<CA+gmQJRMrZkeYHFOzFRiXKOM0LeMgnRGa=s8BZ=mW5m2SONKtQ@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hey Stefan,
All of your annoying, and arrogant, and condescending comments on here over
the past few years are an embarrassment to the AMSAT community.
STOP IT!
Warm Regards,
Tucker
W4FS
On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 8:13 PM Stefan Wagener via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> Mr David Swanson,
>
> Your vicious, sarcastic, and personal attacks against a duly elected board
> member and more importantly another human being are totally uncalled
> for and a total embarrassment to yourself.
>
> STOP IT!
>
> Stefan VE4SW
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 2:28 PM David Swanson via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> > It's always fun to remind folks tripping over their own feat lying that
> the
> > internet is forever. From a Bruce Perens Tweet on July 13, 2020:
> >
> > "Please see my letter on the web, or the paper copy I've mailed to
> everyone
> > one of you".
> >
> > Of course the original tweet was deleted, but the wayback machine never
> > forgets. Don't Believe me? http://druidnetworks.com/2020-07-13.png
> >
> > If you still think the membership list wasn't compromised, I just heard
> > Director Thompson will be auctioning off their ocean front property in
> > Arizona to all the members this year to raise funds for their microwave,
> > digital only, strictly open source crowd funded, vegan, social justice
> > aware cubesat launch to Proxima Centauri. Of course this launch will only
> > come after 10 years of ground station development, but fueled with enough
> > hopes, dreams and promises it will become a reality!
> >
> > For the rest of us who actually want to keep amateur radio in (real)
> space
> > and are disgusted at the violations of privacy that occured by 3rd
> parties
> > working to get Director Thompson and Director Stoddard elected, well, you
> > should know what to do.
> >
> > -Dave, KG5CCI
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:24 AM Michelle Thompson <
> > mountain.michelle@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> > > No database went anywhere except to candidates. This is allowed in the
> > > bylaws.
> > >
> > > Then, an automated bulk mail printing server was used. I recommended
> the
> > > company to Brennan Price for this year's mailing. Good service,
> > > inexpensive.
> > >
> > > Return addresses don't magically transfer information.
> > >
> > > -Michelle W5NYV
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 04:32 David Swanson <dave@?????????????.???>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Spin Spin Spin. The simple truth here is Director Thompson took the
> > AMSAT
> > >> member database, and handed it over to a 3rd party competing entity
> for
> > the
> > >> purpose of solicitation. I know I did not give ORI my home address,
> yet
> > ORI
> > >> sent me a letter. This was a violation of my privacy, and for AMSAT
> > >> members living in the EU, this was a violation of the law. Any attempt
> > to
> > >> explain this away is just more lies and deceit from Director Thompson
> > about
> > >> the shady practices they have engaged in over the past few years. As I
> > keep
> > >> saying, this isn't a one time thing, this is a pattern of
> > >> reprehensible behavior that is unbecoming of an elected position and
> > this
> > >> community. Director Thompson and Director Stoddard should resign.
> > >>
> > >> -Dave, KG5CCI
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:33 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB <
> > >> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Yes, I can.
> > >>>
> > >>> That part of Clayton's letter is wrong and has been repeatedly
> > clarified
> > >>> before. Including at the 2019 annual board meeting, where Tom Clark
> > asked
> > >>> me about it, as part of the record.
> > >>>
> > >>> Clayton Coleman was secretary in 2019.
> > >>>
> > >>> He ran the election.
> > >>>
> > >>> He decided that candidate statements were limited in length to 350
> > words,
> > >>> would be subject to editorial control by AMSAT, and could not include
> > >>> links. These new rules were given to us right before the 4th of July
> > >>> holiday with a deadline of the 7th.
> > >>>
> > >>> This is different than any election before, where statements went
> > >>> directly
> > >>> to the printer from the candidate, were not limited in length, and no
> > one
> > >>> from AMSAT leadership (who might be running for reelection
> themselves)
> > >>> had
> > >>> any control over the content of their challengers' statements.
> > >>>
> > >>> We got these rules right before ballots went out. We (four
> challengers)
> > >>> already had normal-sized statements on the web and they had been up
> six
> > >>> weeks at that point. Those were the ones we wanted to use, and link
> to.
> > >>>
> > >>> We knew that as candidates, we had the right to request the mailing
> > list,
> > >>> and send our own statements, independent of the ballot.
> > >>>
> > >>> I requested the address list and got the DBASE4 export.
> > >>>
> > >>> Bruce Perens had already written a letter of support and distributed
> it
> > >>> widely on the web. It introduced us and included our four full bios
> and
> > >>> statements.
> > >>>
> > >>> I asked Bruce if we could use his letter in the mailing. He said yes.
> > >>> Since
> > >>> he was President of Open Research Institute at the time, he wanted
> the
> > >>> return address to not be his private home address, but a business
> > >>> address.
> > >>> That was ORI's address. He was the author of the endorsement, so I
> used
> > >>> his
> > >>> preferred return address.
> > >>>
> > >>> I converted the DBASE4 to a more useful format, fixed the 50 or so
> > >>> undeliverable addresses, and found an inexpensive printer. Then I
> sent
> > >>> the
> > >>> letter from Bruce to the printer, with the bios and statements.
> > >>>
> > >>> That turned out to be a good thing. Bios and statements were not
> > included
> > >>> with the ballots mailed out, at all.
> > >>>
> > >>> If we had not sent the letter, then name recognition would be the
> > primary
> > >>> factor. We were running against well-known people.
> > >>>
> > >>> We complained about this. It was unusual departure from the past and
> > >>> seemed
> > >>> set up to let leadership benefit from being incumbents.
> > >>>
> > >>> The original proposal from Clayton was for an electronic only ballot.
> > >>> Patrick said that the bylaws were a bit clunky here and it did need
> to
> > be
> > >>> mailed out on paper. Paper was required.
> > >>>
> > >>> This is a big reason why I made a motion at our one board meeting,
> in
> > >>> March, for a bylaws committee.
> > >>>
> > >>> This bylaw isn't hard to fix. There's lots of examples out there of
> > >>> organizations doing electronic voting with working published bylaws.
> > >>>
> > >>> Bruce made it very clear, when the incumbents stirred up the pot
> about
> > >>> the
> > >>> return address, that it was an endorsement from him, this was
> commonly
> > >>> done
> > >>> in political campaigns, and it would be grossly improper for me to
> use
> > >>> AMSATs return address because that would make it look like Bruce was
> > >>> speaking for or was from AMSAT. That was not going to happen. *That*
> > >>> would
> > >>> be improper.
> > >>>
> > >>> No one candidate wanted their personal address used as a return
> > address.
> > >>> We
> > >>> were mailing this as a slate and splitting the cost. We didn't have
> > time
> > >>> or
> > >>> funds to make an organization or rent a box for one letter on short
> > >>> notice.
> > >>> The printer required a real return address.
> > >>>
> > >>> No one had the address list except the candidates. Namely me because
> I
> > >>> contracted the printer and handled the DBASE4 address conversion.
> That
> > >>> is a
> > >>> neat story in and of itself,, for another time.
> > >>>
> > >>> Bruce only sent the text to me and chipped in some money for postage.
> > >>>
> > >>> The printing was automated in Van Nuys, CA.
> > >>>
> > >>> All of this is known to Clayton Coleman and his friends on the board
> > that
> > >>> signed the statement from this week. It has been explained by Bruce
> > >>> publicly, and by me several times on social media. Tom Clark brought
> it
> > >>> up
> > >>> at the 2019 annual board meeting because of the return address
> > >>> pot-stirring. I explained it there too. Like I said, it's on the
> > record.
> > >>>
> > >>> I think insinuating the addresses were mishandled is a deliberate
> > >>> twisting
> > >>> of honest efforts to scramble to get uncensored candidate statements
> > out
> > >>> to
> > >>> voters on short notice. We just didn't have a lot of time, and Bruce
> > was
> > >>> very generous in writing a cover letter.
> > >>>
> > >>> Again, candidates are allowed the use of the mailing lists for
> election
> > >>> purposes.
> > >>>
> > >>> So, no, there was no breach. Clayton knows all this.
> > >>>
> > >>> Saying it the way he did is a cheap shot at me, Patrick, Bruce
> Perens,
> > >>> and
> > >>> ORI.
> > >>>
> > >>> -Michelle W5NYV
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 19:11 Kevin via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> > Hello All,
> > >>> >
> > >>> > In a previous email to the BB I posted the link to the letter we
> > all
> > >>> > received as members.
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>>
> >
>
https://www.amsat.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200710_AMSAT_Lead
ership_Explains_Legal_Expenses.pdf
> > >>> >
> > >>> > I was re-reading it and something caught my eye that I had missed
> > >>> before.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > "AMSAT did not provide a copy of its membership mailing addresses
> to
> > >>> > Open Research Institute."
> > >>> >
> > >>> > Just how was our mailing list compromised? This seems like a
> > >>> serious
> > >>> > breech of security, was this a hack? was any other information
> lost?
> > >>> > was it ever found out how it happened? is our mailing list as they
> > say
> > >>> > "out in the wind"?
> > >>> >
> > >>> > Michelle could you possibly check from the ORI side and backtrack
> how
> > >>> > ORI came into possession of the AMSAT mailing list, was it
> something
> > >>> > that was procured online?
> > >>> >
> > >>> > AMSAT needs to follow up on this privacy issue and report back what
> > it
> > >>> > found and any steps that were taken to prevent this from happening
> in
> > >>> > the future.
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> > I look forward to an answer
> > >>> >
> > >>> > 73 Kevin WA7FWF #19623
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> > _______________________________________________
> > >>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> > available
> > >>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > >>> Opinions
> > >>> > expressed
> > >>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views
> > >>> of
> > >>> > AMSAT-NA.
> > >>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > >>> program!
> > >>> > Subscription settings:
> > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >>> >
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> > >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > >>> Opinions expressed
> > >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> > of
> > >>> AMSAT-NA.
> > >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > >>> program!
> > >>> Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >>>
> > >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 249
*****************************************
Read previous mail | Read next mail
| |
