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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Who I'm voting for (long) (W3AB/GEO)
2. Re: Who I'm voting for (long) (Jeff Davis)
3. Re: Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message (Daniel Schultz)
4. Re: Who I'm voting for (long) (Steve Kristoff)
5. Re: Who I'm voting for (long) (Bruce Perens)
6. Re: Who I'm voting for (long) (Tucker McGuire)
7. Re: Who I'm voting for (long) (Michelle Thompson)
8. Re: Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message (Michael Walker)
9. Re: Who I'm voting for (long) (Bruce Perens)
10. Re: Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
(Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 13:40:23 -0700
From: W3AB/GEO <w3ab@?????.???>
To: "Stephen E. Belter" <seb@??????.???>
Cc: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
Message-ID: <6b4ff523-0839-484f-ad51-a832c4d75c32@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Thank you Steve. That WAS a long read but well worth it. Learning more of
the history and G2 about all the individuals connected to Amsat & the BOD
without attached emotion was enlightening.
?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?
On Jul 14, 2020, 13:32, at 13:32, "Stephen E. Belter via AMSAT-BB"
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>The ballots for the annual election of members of the AMSAT Board of
>Directors will arrive in members' mailboxes soon. My vote is no more
>important than any other member's vote. However, I'm privileged to
>know personally all of the candidates, as well as all of the board
>members, all of the officers, and the previous 4-5 presidents of AMSAT.
>
>
>With one exception, I call all of them my friends. (I don't know one
>of them that well.) None of my friends are perfect, but I feel
>fortunate that they are contributing their time and efforts to AMSAT.
>
>If you don't know all of the candidates personally, I hope you find the
>following useful when you are casting your ballot.
>
>For readers that don't know me, I've been a member of AMSAT since 1993
>and I'm a Life Member. I also contribute financially to AMSAT beyond
>membership dues. I like operating the satellites, with 635 confirmed
>grids, and 487 of the 488 continental USA grids. I also like operating
>portable with over 150 reverse grids, that is, I've made confirmed
>satellite QSOs from 150 grids while traveling through the US and
>Canada.
>
>I've also volunteered for AMSAT, helping with the AMSAT booth at the
>Dayton Hamvention on multiple occasions, including being the AMSAT
>Dayton Team Leader from 2013 through 2017. I'm also part of a small
>team of individuals that has rewritten, reorganized, and updated
>annually the AMSAT "Getting Started With Amateur Satellites" book from
>2013 through 2020. I've also attended a number of the AMSAT Symposia.
>
>Here are the candidates for this year's three open seats:
>
>Mark Hammond, N8MH -- Mark has served on the AMSAT BoD for a number of
>years and has invested countless hours and money as a Control Op for
>AMSAT's satellites. He likes collecting telemetry and often answers
>questions about SatPC32 and digital operations on the AMSAT-BB. In
>addition to being very smart, he works well with people, and is Provost
>at Campbell University. Mark is a very good friend and I have full
>confidence in him and his judgement.
>
>Paul Stoetzer, N8HM -- Paul has served as Secretary and as Executive
>Vice President of AMSAT. He is a great operator, having given me a
>number of grids around Washington, DC and in Michigan. I think he is
>at 486 confirmed of the 488 grids in the continental USA. He has been
>a huge asset to AMSAT, getting the day-to-day work of the organization
>done, working on the website and store, filling in during Presidential
>absences, and assisting in the AMSAT Office in Kensington. He is very
>smart and often answers questions on the AMSAT-BB and Twitter. Paul is
>a good friend and I have full confidence in him and his judgement.
>
>Bruce Paige, KK5DO -- Bruce has handled the AMSAT awards for years and
>is a member of the BoD. He also hosts a regular AMSAT net in Houston
>which is available over the Internet. Now that he has retired from his
>day job, he is devoting additional time to supporting AMSAT and
>tutoring new operators. Bruce is a friend and I have full confidence
>in him and his judgement.
>
>Howie DeFelice, AB2S -- I've met Howie at Dayton and have seen his
>posts on the AMSAT-BB and the Ground-Station mail lists. I don't know
>Howie well enough to claim him as a friend, but I respect his technical
>expertise and appreciate the time he volunteers.
>
>Bob McGwier, N4HY -- Bob has a long history with AMSAT, having served
>as VP of Engineering and as a member of the BoD. He is incredibly
>smart. He was one of the inventors of software-defined modems and
>software-defined radios. Bob is a friend and I listen carefully when
>he speaks (or writes). I'm uncertain where he wants to take AMSAT now.
>
>Jeff Johns, WE4B -- Jeff has given me a number of grids and I've
>returned the favor when I've been roving. He has mentored his two
>young daughters who do a great job operating satellites. It is always
>a thrill hearing them operate. Jeff is a friend and I'm always happy
>when we make contact.
>
>
>There has been lots of discussion, some quite heated and not always
>accurate, about transparency, legal expenses, and who isn't being
>cooperative. As a result of attending parts of board meetings at the
>AMSAT Symposia, occasionally delivering reports to the BoD about Dayton
>on BoD teleconferences, and private conversations with AMSAT officers
>and BoD members, I feel I have a good understanding of the workings of
>the board and the issues at the core of the disagreements. I share my
>observations below.
>
>To get to the point, I plan to vote for Mark Hammond, Paul Stoetzer,
>and Bruce Paige.
>
>
>The other members of the BoD are Jerry, Drew, Patrick, and Michelle.
>
>Jerry Buxton, N0JY -- Jerry is a member of the Board and is VP of
>Engineering. He does a great job of organizing a bunch of engineering
>volunteers, supervising progress on a wide number of aspects of our
>designs, implementations, and launches. There are far more engineering
>volunteers than you might imagine, and the technical challenges and
>regulatory requirements for new satellites going to higher orbits are
>daunting. He is also our primary contact for unmanned launches by
>NASA. Jerry is a friend and I have full confidence in him and his
>judgement.
>
>Drew Glasbrenner, KO4MA -- Drew is VP of Operations and a member of the
>board. He vets potential launch providers and negotiates the fees for
>paid launches. He also has invested countless hours and money as a
>Control Op for AMSAT's satellites. He is also a regular operator and
>has collected over 1750 grids. Drew is a friend and I have full
>confidence in him and his judgement.
>
>Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK -- My first QSO with Patrick was in 2011.
>He's given me lots of grids and I've returned the favor by giving
>Patrick several grids while I've been roving. He is constantly roving
>the southwest and represents AMSAT at numerous hamfests and club
>meetings. He is one of our hardest working representatives for AMSAT.
>Unfortunately, he got into a pointless conflict with Drew, KO4MA, over
>what should have been a trivial matter. When Drew wouldn't capitulate,
>Patrick took his beef to Joe Spier, K6WAO, then the President of AMSAT.
>When Joe wouldn't discipline Drew, Patrick decided that Joe should be
>fired. The situation went further downhill from there. Patrick should
>be a tremendous asset to the BoD from his experience as a satellite
>operator and an AMSAT representative. Unfortunately, that hasn't been
>the case, as he's fixated on revenge for perceived wrongs. He's been a
>major contributor to the dysfunctional board meetings. With a change
>of attitude, he could still be a major contributor to the board. I
>still consider Patrick to be a friend.
>
>Michelle Thompson, W5NYV -- I met Michelle at Dayton in 2008 and was
>immediately impressed. She is a very intelligent individual with a
>wide range of interests. She is highly organized and excellent at
>engaging volunteers for her projects. I was so impressed that I asked
>her to be the dinner speaker for the AMSAT/TAPR Banquet at Dayton in
>2016.
>
>Unfortunately, Michelle sometime chooses to "Do what you want and ask
>forgiveness later." She did it to me and put me in a terrible
>position.
>
>I asked Michelle for help in creating a 3D printer design for a model
>of the Fox satellites. I requested and received a CAD file of AO-85
>from AMSAT Engineering to help with this project. Michelle and Paul
>Williamson, KB5MU, created the 3D printer model. Michelle said they
>wanted to post the file on the Internet so others could use it. I
>asked her to wait to make it public until I received permission from
>the AMSAT Board of Directors, since AMSAT is governed by ITAR. She
>said OK, then posted it without waiting for permission. This put me in
>a terrible position with AMSAT Engineering and the BoD. As a result, I
>was really mad. Fortunately for me, it worked out OK with Engineering
>and the BoD. I'm not mad now, but I learned an important lesson about
>working with Michelle.
>
>Michelle has been a major contributor to the dysfunctional board
>meetings. With a change of attitude, Michelle could still be a huge
>asset to the board. I still consider her to be a friend.
>
>
>I learned from others that similar problems, "Do what you want and ask
>forgiveness later," had occurred before between AMSAT and Michelle.
>So why the dirty laundry now? Michelle gets elected to the board, then
>demands a list of all of the Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDAs) AMSAT has
>signed (for example, with NASA, launch providers, and potential
>satellite partners) *and* that they be made public. Some, if not all
>of the NDAs state that the content of the NDA and its existence will
>not be disclosed by AMSAT. (By the way, I know AMSAT has signed NDAs,
>but I don't know how many or with whom.)
>
>This puts the Board and the Officers in a terrible dilemma. Do they
>share these confidential NDAs with the new board members who have
>publicly stated that they don't think NDAs need to be kept private?
>What is the impact on AMSAT if NASA or a launch provider or another
>partner decides that AMSAT isn't a reliable organization that can be
>trusted not to share private information? How do we get future AMSAT
>satellites to orbit if the free launches from NASA or paid launches
>from providers are no longer available to us?
>
>Of course, Michelle and Patrick spin this as the Board being
>uncooperative and not being transparent.
>
>
>Officers who are not elected board members:
>
>Joe Spier, K6WAO, past President -- Joe agreed to serve as President of
>AMSAT when Barry Baines, WD4ASW, decided to retire after a decade of
>leading AMSAT. Joe threw himself into the position, did an excellent
>job of succeeding Barry, and moved the organization forward. In
>addition to his huge time investment, Joe also contributed a
>significant amount of money to AMSAT and covered a lot of expenses he
>incurred traveling and promoting AMSAT. I don't know why Joe resigned,
>but it wouldn't surprise me if he decided he didn't need to defend
>himself from lawsuits from new board members that didn't like the job
>he was doing. This is, after all, a volunteer position. Joe is a
>friend.
>
>Clayton Coleman, W5PFG, President -- After Joe resigned, Clayton
>stepped forward to fill the vacancy and was elected by the board.
>Clayton was Secretary and a past member of the board. He took the job
>of President to try to resolve the problems with a dysfunctional board
>and to try to save AMSAT. (Yes, the situation is that dire.) He has
>made some changes for the better, but is still struggling to solve the
>problems. Clayton is a good friend and I have full confidence in him
>and his judgement.
>
>Robert Bankston, KE4AL, Treasurer and VP of User Services -- Robert is
>a relatively new member of AMSAT, but he's jumped in with both feet and
>made a huge contribution to the organization. He hosted the Huntsville
>Symposium, roves on a regular basis, has resuscitated User Services,
>and also took over the job of Treasurer when Keith Baker, KB1SF,
>decided to retire. He also spearheaded the new member portal,
>membership database, and online website for new and renewing
>membership. Robert is a good friend and I have full confidence in him
>and his judgement.
>
>
>To conclude this too long dissertation, despite considerable headwinds
>and misinformation, AMSAT is making progress. I plan to vote for Mark
>Hammond, Paul Stoetzer, and Bruce Paige with the expectation that AMSAT
>can continue to make additional progress.?
>
>73, Steve N9IP
>--
>Steve Belter, seb@??????.???
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 17:11:50 -0400
From: Jeff Davis <jeffrey.davis@???.???>
To: "Stephen E. Belter" <seb@??????.???>
Cc: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
Message-ID: <14EE9298-3221-49F4-8197-680DAC1D4712@???.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Great summation Steve. Thanks for taking time to thread all the pieces
together. I agree with your conclusions and will be voting accordingly.
73, Jeff KE9V
> On Jul 14, 2020, at 4:08 PM, Stephen E. Belter via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> To conclude this too long dissertation, despite considerable headwinds and
misinformation, AMSAT is making progress. I plan to vote for Mark Hammond,
Paul Stoetzer, and Bruce Paige with the expectation that AMSAT can continue
to make additional progress.?
>
> 73, Steve N9IP
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 16:24:21 -0400
From: "Daniel Schultz" <n8fgv@???.???>
To: <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
Message-ID: <628ygNuXV7824Set.1594758261@?????.???.???.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> The benefit to Slack is having channels for each topic. In this case,
> discussion about Board Membership can be in it's own channel. People who
> are not interested are not required to read.
That is the basic problem with American politics today. Each of us can choose
our own news sources so that we hear only the news that we want to hear. When
the whole country tuned in to Uncle Walt (that's Walter Cronkite for you
younger folk) every night at 6:30, we still had disagreements but at least we
started out with the same facts.
I'm sorry if you find these political matters distracting, but as I said
before, these satellites are not going to build themselves. They take extreme
effort and dedication from a lot of passionate people, and any time you have
more than a few of these type-A personalities assembled together, there will
be disagreements.
Your support of AMSAT through your dues is important, but paying dues once a
year is not enough. You have to be an involved citizen of YOUR organization,
you have to keep up with issues, even political issues, and you have to cast
your vote wisely. And if you care enough to read Amsat-bb every day but you
are not an AMSAT member, why the heck not? We need your money, but more
importantly, we need your active participation.
73, Dan Schultz N8FGV
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 17:32:47 -0400
From: "Steve Kristoff" <skristof@???????.???>
To: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
Message-ID: <4a39c79fcd8fd39498365686cfe4e19b@???????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
As Stephen has painted them in a negative light, I hope we can hear from
Patrick and Michelle concerning their perceptions of the events described by
Stephen.
Steve AI9IN
?
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen E. Belter via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb@?????.????
Date: 07/14/20 16:30
To: AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb@?????.????
Subject: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 14:39:17 -0700
From: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
To: "Stephen E. Belter" <seb@??????.???>
Cc: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
Message-ID:
<CAK2MWOvswX23Z=-hVErSjR8WkNVf3NNmY-YQmCEfxvA8+QEU1A@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I see a lot of "old space" vs. "new space" in what you wrote, Steve. To
start with:
Some, if not all of the NDAs state that the content of the NDA and its
existence will not be disclosed by AMSAT.
The big difference here is confidentiality vs. transparency. New space is
represented by organizations that are extremely transparent. LibreSpace
<https://libre.space/> is a good example: everything they do is 100% Open
Source, and they built the satellites that AMSAT-EA is launching, and a
huge worldwide ground station network. Those Genesis N and L satellites
<http://perens.com/static/AppliedIon/AMSAT-EA-Newsletter_11-2019.pdf> have
electric thrusters by Applied Ion Systems <https://appliedionsystems.com/>,
A USA-based researcher, also 100% Open Source. ORI is similar: USA based,
100% open.
About those thrusters. Those AMSAT-EA satellites are going to
Then, there is AMSAT. You imply (if not confirm) that AMSAT has agreements
so secret that they can't tell the membership that they exist.
Why are all of the other guys open? Because 100% openness is the only
strategy that protects you from ITAR/EAR and its equivalents in other
nations. It is proprietary research that is protected by ITAR, not the
stuff you publish. Ask commercial companies like 3D Robotics
<https://www.3dr.com/>, who have the US Government as *their major
customer,* and participate in Dronecode <https://www.dronecode.org/>
because 100% public disclosure is the only good way to get around ITAR.
There used to be a justification for AMSAT's secrecy, in that we thought
that nobody would launch our satellites if we didn't act like old space.
But those other organizations are getting more satellites launched than
AMSAT has been. They are also building more, and designing more.
It illustrates the problem that you were made afraid, by AMSAT's ITAR
preoccupation, to publicly distribute the plans for *a plastic model of the
appearance of a cubesat.* There just can't be anything that isn't public
knowledge about that.
If we all continue to vote for more of the same old stuff, I am convinced
that AMSAT will continue its slide toward bankruptcy and irrelevance, and
will have a smaller and smaller working group, and eventually there won't
be an AMSAT and the open guys will take over anyway. It would be much
better for AMSAT to join the present.
I will be voting for Bob and Howie, because they are unquestionable space
professionals with a long history of innovation, and after Tom steps down
we won't have anyone else who is close to Bob and Howie's level. And Jeff,
because while he's more of a regular ham than a rocket scientist, he is
open to the future where others are not.
Thanks
Bruce
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 17:42:49 -0400
From: Tucker McGuire <tucker@???????????.???>
To: Steve Kristoff <skristof@???????.???>
Cc: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
Message-ID:
<CA+gmQJR1KG0F6O7aovxx_ezQOWQ1UyuCDZD+0sbR-OGbJwJqhA@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Thanks Steve for that post.
Well worth the read. I trust Steve's judgement, as in the couple years I've
gotten to know him, he's the kind of guy that'd give you the shirt off of
his own back. Well spoken.
Best,
Tucker
W4FS/VE9FS
On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 5:34 PM Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> As Stephen has painted them in a negative light, I hope we can hear from
> Patrick and Michelle concerning their perceptions of the events described
> by Stephen.
>
> Steve AI9IN
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Stephen E. Belter via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb@?????.????
> Date: 07/14/20 16:30
> To: AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb@?????.????
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 15:26:04 -0700
From: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle@?????.???>
To: Steve Kristoff <skristof@???????.???>, AMSAT BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
Message-ID:
<CACvjz2V2=qtPA=wgYcT9nn62CJLKGVAYR3PhqVdSP943yOy=uw@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
OK.
I replied privately to Stephen.
He's wrong about some facts.
No "ITAR" issues were involved with that model. That is not how ITAR works.
He did not like the fact that it was intended to be posted for free for
anyone to use. Some wanted to assert "copyright" over it, put "AMSAT.ORG"
on the side of it, and control it in other ways. There were multiple
conversations about this, and legal consultation over the "copyright"
issue. I got a go-ahead from enough people on the board to publish it as
originally proposed and went on to the next thing.
The model since then has been used very effectively, remixed, augmented
with electronics, turned into a satellite tracker where one side is an LCD
display, entered in art shows, "launched" at a trebuchet event, and
thoroughly enjoyed.
It has also been completely ignored by leadership.
I am sorry Stephen's feelings were hurt by the open sourcing of a project.
These issues of control and hurt feelings surrounding control are
unfortunate.
After it was up, and there was some after-the-fact scramble, I offered to
take it back down. He left out that part.
The fact that this is brought up as a reason for voting any particular way
(I'm not even on the ballot) is a bit odd.
He endorses people that have shut down AMSAT board meetings entirely and
are completely unapologetic about it.
Is publishing a useful model - faster than he preferred - somehow worse
than derailing all deliberative venues for the entire organization, going
way over the authorized amount for FD Associates, and secretly hiring
lawyers?
There are some extremely high standards for some people, and very low ones
for others, in the letter Stephen wrote.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 2:44 PM Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> As Stephen has painted them in a negative light, I hope we can hear from
> Patrick and Michelle concerning their perceptions of the events described
> by Stephen.
>
> Steve AI9IN
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Stephen E. Belter via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb@?????.????
> Date: 07/14/20 16:30
> To: AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb@?????.????
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 18:35:44 -0400
From: Michael Walker <va3mw@??????????.???>
To: Daniel Schultz <n8fgv@???.???>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
Message-ID:
<CA+33ts6Hbe8dBOUQpFKy8kX6tBBaQ9y0bdK8ZGfwMC_fZRzmKg@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I agree 100% with the Slack solution.
We use it for VHF Scatter and it is far superior to any other solution.
Unfortunately, you can't judge it until you have tried it. You can't use
Email for real time coordination.
There already is a Slack Satellite channel setup on the VHF-Chat Channel
and it is active.
Mike va3mw
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 14:46:23 -0700
From: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
To: "Stephen E. Belter" <seb@??????.???>
Cc: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
Message-ID:
<CAK2MWOviRUcG6O0H2ONQwOZ7gEyyiB4SN_4Q4ZDhstX9zjBK=w@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Oops, sorry to leave a piece out:
> About those thrusters. Those AMSAT-EA satellites are going to
They will do:
Orbit change.
Orbit maintenance.
Collision avoidance.
Deorbit.
That is not coming from AMSAT-NA or any non-Open organization.
On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 2:39 PM Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???> wrote:
> I see a lot of "old space" vs. "new space" in what you wrote, Steve. To
> start with:
>
> Some, if not all of the NDAs state that the content of the NDA and its
> existence will not be disclosed by AMSAT.
>
> The big difference here is confidentiality vs. transparency. New space is
> represented by organizations that are extremely transparent. LibreSpace
> <https://libre.space/> is a good example: everything they do is 100% Open
> Source, and they built the satellites that AMSAT-EA is launching, and a
> huge worldwide ground station network. Those Genesis N and L satellites
> <http://perens.com/static/AppliedIon/AMSAT-EA-Newsletter_11-2019.pdf> have
> electric thrusters by Applied Ion Systems <https://appliedionsystems.com/>,
> A USA-based researcher, also 100% Open Source. ORI is similar: USA based,
> 100% open.
>
> About those thrusters. Those AMSAT-EA satellites are going to
>
> Then, there is AMSAT. You imply (if not confirm) that AMSAT has agreements
> so secret that they can't tell the membership that they exist.
>
> Why are all of the other guys open? Because 100% openness is the only
> strategy that protects you from ITAR/EAR and its equivalents in other
> nations. It is proprietary research that is protected by ITAR, not the
> stuff you publish. Ask commercial companies like 3D Robotics
> <https://www.3dr.com/>, who have the US Government as *their major
> customer,* and participate in Dronecode <https://www.dronecode.org/>
> because 100% public disclosure is the only good way to get around ITAR.
>
> There used to be a justification for AMSAT's secrecy, in that we thought
> that nobody would launch our satellites if we didn't act like old space.
> But those other organizations are getting more satellites launched than
> AMSAT has been. They are also building more, and designing more.
>
> It illustrates the problem that you were made afraid, by AMSAT's ITAR
> preoccupation, to publicly distribute the plans for *a plastic model of
> the appearance of a cubesat.* There just can't be anything that isn't
> public knowledge about that.
>
> If we all continue to vote for more of the same old stuff, I am convinced
> that AMSAT will continue its slide toward bankruptcy and irrelevance, and
> will have a smaller and smaller working group, and eventually there won't
> be an AMSAT and the open guys will take over anyway. It would be much
> better for AMSAT to join the present.
>
> I will be voting for Bob and Howie, because they are unquestionable space
> professionals with a long history of innovation, and after Tom steps down
> we won't have anyone else who is close to Bob and Howie's level. And Jeff,
> because while he's more of a regular ham than a rocket scientist, he is
> open to the future where others are not.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce
>
>
--
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 23:46:56 +0100
From: "Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL)" <peter@????????.??.??>
To: Michael Walker <va3mw@??????????.???>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>, Daniel Schultz <n8fgv@???.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Slack vs. eMail -- The medium is the message
Message-ID:
<CAFvUair1scEbgD-Ek1L+_BA839t4rZbysQdPDF3sZ5pWprKtVA@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
While I'm not a big slack fan, it's just yet another system you need to
monitor although works well perhaps when discussing satellite launches,
roves in real time, bit like the days of IRC.
Slack do offer non profits deals which I'm guessing AMSAT could look into
https://slack.com/intl/en-gb/help/articles/204368833-Slack-for-Charities
Peter, 2M0SQL
On Tue, 14 Jul 2020, 23:36 Michael Walker via AMSAT-BB, <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
> I agree 100% with the Slack solution.
>
> We use it for VHF Scatter and it is far superior to any other solution.
> Unfortunately, you can't judge it until you have tried it. You can't use
> Email for real time coordination.
>
> There already is a Slack Satellite channel setup on the VHF-Chat Channel
> and it is active.
>
> Mike va3mw
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 254
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