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CX2SA > SATDIG 16.07.20 00:51l 751 Lines 31461 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Candidate for BOD (Bob Hammond)
2. Re: Who I'm voting for (long) (Bruce Perens)
3. Re: AMSAT Open Source Policy (Michelle Thompson)
4. Re: AMSAT Open Source Policy (Bruce Perens)
5. Re: Who I?m NOT Voting For (Short) (RickW)
6. AMSAT Open Source Policy (Stephen DeVience)
7. Re: Who I?m NOT Voting For (Short) (John Spasojevich)
8. Re: Who I?m NOT Voting For (Short) (Bruce Perens)
9. Re: Who I?m NOT Voting For (Short) (sean fay)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 12:09:57 -0700
From: Bob Hammond <propgrinder@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Candidate for BOD
Message-ID:
<CAKoB7OrqB2GTHWZprStNS=HDJpnUMrqsxp8a9-Nnw9HuSKninA@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Thanks Steve.
I think, in general, candidates would be sharing their backgrounds with the
AMSAT voters without us doing Google search.
Bob W7OTJ
On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 11:47 AM Steve Kristoff via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> A quick Google search came up with this:
> https://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Candidate%20Statement%20HD.pdf
>
> Steve AI9IN
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Hammond via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb@?????.????
> Date: 07/15/20 09:14
> To: amsat-bb@?????.???
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Candidate for BOD
>
> Howie,
>
> I'd like a bit more background, please. What do you do in real life?
> Employment, education, etc?
>
> Bob W7OTJ
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 1:53 AM Howie DeFelice via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 13:08:17 -0700
From: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
To: Robert Bankston <ke4al@?????.???>, Robert Bankston
<ke4al@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who I'm voting for (long)
Message-ID:
<CAK2MWOvVSx-Uixgr8dQKwSihMLsp8EXZd-3o=nTBbsZ+i-bb1w@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 8:33 AM Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> I would think someone as learned as you would at least provide the proper
> citation.
>
The statement was properly attributed to you. If you had made your report
to the membership I would have the whole thing, as it is I must rely on an
incomplete report.
> you would know that we were discussing the economic uncertainty at the
> very beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic.
>
That was always obvious. I would not expect that AMSAT even *could *be
doing excellently when we would not be getting the people walking up to the
booth at Hamvention, etc. And I would encourage members to pony up! I just
renewed my membership through 2022, and put $120 in the President's Circle.
But Robert, if I understand the Salary Protection Program, AMSAT is now
carrying debt, and this will increase for a while. I trust you to do
everything necessary to get the government to forgive that debt, and to
impress on the board that this is one thing that they just can't allow to
fail.
Thanks
Bruce
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 13:24:09 -0700
From: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle@?????.???>
To: Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>, "Stephen E. Belter"
<seb@??????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Open Source Policy
Message-ID:
<CACvjz2VwvHBxX3WHgdhPrOoTv2_1okr+i8DJBObHKcPJ4n+Ueg@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Here are the answers.
1) It allows free and open international collaboration.
2) It removes bankruptingly expensive data management requirements intended
for proprietary companies.
3) It is the best way to reduce legal liability for volunteers in
non-commercial settings.
Taking advantage of the public domain carve outs is safe, sane, legal, and
will galvanize AMSAT engineering.
It requires publishing work as it is created, at minimal cost to an
organization.
It has been repeatedly recommended to AMSAT by experts as the way to go,
for over 10 years.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 1:03 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> You did not really answer the first question: "How does AMSAT benefit
> by pursuing an open source policy?" The question is really unrelated
> to EAR/ITAR. What i'm wondering is, if AMSAT published all of its
> hardware and software designs for everything, how does this benefit
> AMSAT? This is probably the most important question from an
> organizational standpoint.
>
> I had been through a similar discussion with a private company that I
> worked for about a 3D visualization / Earth rendering product that was
> developed by the company. It was a product that was similar to Google
> Earth and could easily compete with it from a rendering / efficiency /
> user experience standpoint. The question was: Do we open source the
> software and give it out to the world to attract more people to the
> product / generate a new ecosystem for publicity, or do we keep it
> closed and generate revenue off custom software services. The company
> chose option 2. The bottom line was, if we put all the source out in
> the open, most engineering types would not pay us anything, even if we
> did an open/commercial licensing scheme. Because, let's be honest,
> generally speaking, no-one wants to pay for anything, and that is
> especially true in the OSS world. And even when you ask people to pay
> for something, they find clever ways to work around licensing and rip
> you off. I think consulting services become more practical, when the
> technology that is being utilized is more technically challenging and
> there are deadlines involved. That's why certain OSS products can use
> that model (of course, there are not many consulting opportunities for
> libtiff know-how :-).
>
> One comment on what you said about GPL "you use the GPL where you want
> companies to participate more, rather than just take your stuff and
> modify it in private, never returning anything." This is a common
> misunderstanding / mis-representation of what the GPL does. Companies
> are not required to 'return anything'. It only protects the rights of
> down-stream recipients, not up-stream. Examples in case others
> reading are not aware of this:
>
> - If an organization downloads, compiles and integrates a GPL
> libWhatever onto a chip in a satellite and the satellite is launched
> into space, there is no downstream recipient of the binaries. The
> changes can remain within the private organization ad-infinitum. The
> hardware floats around in a vaccum, maybe burns up in the atmosphere
> and we end up breathing it, outside of that, nothing needs to be given
> back to the community.
>
> - If I download, compile and integrate a GPL libWhatever onto a chip
> and then deliver the binary to say a University team for integration
> or to a customer for use. Then, the University team or customer has a
> Right to be able to edit the source, etc... Their rights to
> edit/modify are protected. But, that still doesn't mean the creator
> of libWhatever is guaranteed to receive anything back.
>
> AMSAT could establish an open source policy that would only provide
> licensed code to parties/organizations that agreed to integrate
> according to their terms and conditions. These terms and conditions
> could be contingent upon AMSAT being a downstream-recipient of the
> software/hardware source/designs (work-products, etc...) This would
> establish a symbiotic relationship between AMSAT and others with
> mutual benefit. Others wish to utilize AMSATs software/hardware
> stack, integration know-how, etc... and AMSAT would be guaranteed to
> be on the receiving end of the changes. AMSAT could also establish
> something like others have, where they have a licensed version that is
> not-permitted-to-fly and a "Pay-For" version that allows you to fly
> it. It's an interesting idea and along the lines of what several
> other OSS projects do with dual oss, commercial options.
>
> On the whole protesting of ITAR/EAR and Defense Distributed, when you
> say the Federal Government lost, from a practical standpoint, that's
> not really true. Legal hardship is real. The end result was a
> private organization, unnecessarily being jerked around by the fed in
> a politically-motivated legal attack. And then, being jerked-around
> again, by several states. That cost them and it is still costing
> them, time and money. The organization could not function during that
> period and is now forced to function differently. Rules were
> re-written by the DOS, there was an ad-hoc "settlement" including an
> 'exclusive license'. Isn't that awesome that a company is given an
> 'exclusive license' after being jerked around vs, just being left
> alone in the first place? Also, Defcad requires you to create a
> login, submit Personally Identifiiable info (PII) to them (ID,
> etc...), etc... before you download anything from them. That's, NOT
> Open. I am not certain what they would do if a non-US Person
> attempted to sign up. It's antithetical to a true, public open source
> process really. If anything, this case is a shining example of why an
> organization Should:
>
> i) be very selective about what is publicized
> ii) work very cautiously with others in a way that reduces risk
>
> Basically, how AMSAT appears to operate right now. Why? Because if
> the wrong politically-motivated person in the Department of Whatever
> (or friend of a girlfriend of a mistress of whomever) gets an itch,
> they can make your life a living hell. And, while they sit back and
> collect a paycheck and have their pension well-funded during that time
> frame... You're left with a ruling in your favor (yaay!) but
> financially strapped, physically deteriorated due the stress and
> likely out of business. This doesn't just happen in the ITAR realm
> either, look at what happened to the buckyballs company that sold the
> little magnets that you could build little structures out of. They
> got dragged through the mud for years, for literally selling little
> round magnets...
>
> Joseph Armbruster
> KJ4JIO
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 10:20 PM Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???> wrote:
> >
> > Michelle, working for ORI, hired a lawyer to take up the ITAR matter
> with the Federal Government, so she probably has some interesting
> information.
> >
> > I have left your questions in, so that this will make sense to readers.
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 6:08 PM Joseph Armbruster <
> josepharmbruster@?????.???> wrote:
> >>
> >> 1) How does AMSAT benefit by pursuing an open source policy?
> >
> >
> > Both ITAR and EAR have a carve-out regarding published research. EAR
> says that things you publish on the Internet are not subject to the EAR.
> ITAR is a bit more difficult, they want you to publish it in a journal or
> put it in a library. There are lots of friendly college libraries who will
> put a blu-ray disk on a shelf for you. And then, you don't have to deal
> with ITAR regarding any digital data. You still have ITAR problems if you
> wish to ship a satellite across a national border, so it is best to
> fabricate it in the nation where it will be launched. And you must never
> provide defense services, not even to the USA. That means if someone you
> know is clearly working on a defense project asks a question on your
> mailing list, you need to explain nicely that they should get that
> information elsewhere because it would get you in trouble. And then tell
> the government. I think the last one I dealt with was from a defense
> company in Pakistan asking about Codec2. The government says thank
> you for reporting this, it's important, but doesn't tell us any more.
> >
> > The whole Open Source community operates this way, and has no problem
> with ITAR. They are much bigger than AMSAT. And they make AI, cryptography,
> and many other things that are listed on the United States Munitions List.
> >
> >> 2) What are the disadvantages of AMSAT pursuing an open source policy?
> >
> >
> > It's really difficult to see any at this late date. Michelle and I have
> been to NASA meetings where it is really clear that they embrace Open
> Source internally. So does SpaceX, ULA less but Tory (CEO) is very easy to
> talk with. ESA is all over Open Source and there is a Librespace guy in
> European Central Bank who can make introductions for us. Legally, we could
> even cooperate with nations on the embargoed list, but at that point I
> would want explicit permission, no need to antagonize the government just
> because the law allows you to do something.
> >
> >> 3) Say a new project was about to start, where should all the design
> >> files, source code files, presentations, virtual machines, etc...
> >> live?
> >
> >
> > It's really easy to put everything on Github or Gitlab, in public mode.
> I wrote a script that mirrors ORI's github repositories to its own server,
> and we can just burn a disc from that and put it in a library.
> >
> >> 4) What license would the items be released under (this one will be
> >> interesting to me)?
> >
> >
> > The important thing is that everyone have the right to read. Then, you
> satisfy the requirements in the ITAR and EAR carve-outs, if you also
> publish it on the internet and make it available in a library. Libraries
> often have web terminals, so I think that Internet is enough, but getting a
> library to host a disc is easy. So even a Creative Commons license would be
> adequate, but I suggest BSD if you want it to be available for commercial
> use without getting modifications returned to the community, or GPL if you
> would rather have modifications returned to the community. This is a short
> explanation of Open Source licensing, and I could go into subtleties at
> length.
> >
> > I generally prefer that hardware designs be placed in the public domain.
> Currently hardware is dubiously copyrightable due to 17 USC 102(b) and
> court cases I could discuss at length too. It is not to our advantage for
> courts to take our own example of attempting to copyright hardware designs
> and decide that hardware designs are actually copyrightable.
> >
> >> 4.a) Will the license be Free in a FreeRTOS or CGAL sortof way, where
> >> it's free for non-commercial use?
> >
> >
> > You can do that, since it is only necessary that it not be trade
> secret. But everyone else doing this goes 100% Open Source, and we want to
> be able to share their work and have them share ours. The fact that
> AMSAT-EA works with Librespace and AMSAT-NA does not is suboptimal.
> >
> >> 5) How can satellite security be mitigated if the source is in the
> >> public domain?
> >
> >
> > You mean command and control? The simplest answer is that you use
> encryption to command the satellite, and you don't have to publish your
> cryptographic key. It's data, not the software. However, I have a design
> for terrestrial cryptographic signature that fits the FCC rules that
> prohibit cryptography that obscures the message. Digital signature does not
> obscure the message, it just authenticates it.
> >
> > AMSAT used to use a secret data word and exclusive-OR to encrypt
> communications.Very primitive and implemented in discrete logic chips. This
> is explicitly permitted by FCC for satellites rather than terrestrial ham
> radio. I would hope that we could do digital signature today.
> >
> > > 6) Are you satisfied with the way AMSAT development currently takes
> place or do you feel there is a need to change development practices?
> >
> > My personal opinion is that a lot of the ITAR mess we are currently in
> would go away if AMSAT went to a 100% Open Source policy like most of the
> newer Amateur Space organizations. Unfortunately, we have engaged ITAR
> attorneys who have only worked with proprietary companies, where trade
> secret is necessary, and thus ITAR must apply. Open Source is new to them.
> >
> > One of the most difficult jobs of a manager is managing legal counsel.
> Most managers don't understand what counsel is saying OR what questions to
> ask. And I have seen few managers that are equipped to push back or who
> even understand that pushing back is possible. Sometimes you have to bring
> your lawyer into new areas they have never explored - although that is less
> so than 20 years ago when Open Source was new, and they are very likely to
> give you the determinations that they made for some proprietary corporation
> which are entirely wrong for your public benefit non-profit.
> >
> > In my consulting business, which mainly services law firms and their
> customers, I have met many attorneys who are up to speed on Open Source and
> intellectual property. There are fewer attorneys who are up to speed on
> Open Source and ITAR, and I would spend some time with them to discuss the
> issues.
> >
> >>
> >> 7) Do you think AMSAT would benefit by adopting an open source policy
> >> where all materials are placed in the public domain?
> >
> >
> > There are two "public domains". There is public domain in the sense of
> copyright abandonment and patent and copyright expiration, and then ITAR
> 121 uses the words "public domain" to mean "public knowledge". In general
> most Open Source communities do not use public domain, because the laws of
> many nations, including the United States, do not actually define that an
> affirmative dedication of a work to the public domain has legal meaning.
> They define public domain only in the sense of copyright and patent
> expiration. So, we have contrivances like the CC0 license to work around
> that, which is a public domain declaration if the national law and court
> likes that, but a liberal license otherwise. But most Open Source teams
> would choose a very liberal license like the BSD, where the only real
> requirements are that you preserve attribution (and everyone likes
> attribution) and the license text. Or, you use the GPL where you want
> companies to participate more, rather than just take your stuff
> and modify it in private, never returning anything.
> >
> >> 8) Can you see any landmines or pitfalls from doing so (technical,
> >> legal, etc...)?
> >
> >
> > I really put myself out there trying to attract the attention of the
> Federal Government in protesting ORI's ITAR/EAR policy, and got no
> interest. This may have been because of the Defense Distributed case, which
> was about gun plans online, and I don't want to get into a 2nd amendment
> discussion, but once the Federal Government lost that they didn't have much
> to go after _us_ about.
> >
> > The landmine is that if you need lawyers. If you don't do this, you also
> need lawyers :-)
> >
> >> I wanted to ask about this, since it's mentioned constantly, but
> >> OpenSource is a reasonably loose term that means different strokes to
> >> different folks.
> >
> >
> > The Open Source Definition at Opensource.org is the one I wrote.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Bruce
> > --
> > Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
> eventually :-)
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 13:30:43 -0700
From: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
To: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle@?????.???>
Cc: "Stephen E. Belter" <seb@??????.???>, AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Open Source Policy
Message-ID:
<CAK2MWOumyAcCcOzaQDr263Gg5oSi_+53LWJ8yWEAN7kKaBDv5g@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I should also note that our request for the government to clarify that our
interpretation of their rules is "valid" (in quotes because courts have the
final say) has been delayed by COVID-19 issues in their offices.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 20:43:01 +0000 (UTC)
From: RickW <rwyrwas48@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???? Clint Bradford <clintbradford@???.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who I?m NOT Voting For (Short)
Message-ID: <2012708814.1602970.1594845781271@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
And in the great scheme of things, who cares what you think??
RickWA9JBQ
On Wednesday, July 15, 2020, 09:10:58 AM CDT, Clint Bradford via
AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
Patrick and Jeff created a Web site In 2018 using my Web site?s name - but
added the plural of my work-sat.com - they used ?Sats.?
The site was solely created to demean myself and Gordon West. The posts were
obscene, vile, insulting, and vicious in their attacks. Most of their posts
are too objectionable to post on a public forum like this: posts like two
rats fornicating and writing that my satellite inquiry phone number of
800-999-SATS could also use the alpha characters, 800-999-RATS.
If anyone is interested in reading screenshots of their work, I will
privately email them to you.
Stoddard and Johns will not be receiving my vote.
Clint Bradford K6LCS
909-999-SATS
PS They let the GoDaddy domain name expire after a year. I registered it
immediately - and it is now redirected to my site.
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 15:48:49 -0500
From: Stephen DeVience <sjdevience@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Open Source Policy
Message-ID:
<CAMPfQQC7VU18Oy9nFvwvuk+DiFmci9f-YbzNrP=qudO2vSNaWg@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Bruce, thank you for this explanation of the ITAR issues. It looks like
AMSAT is at a fork in the road here regarding how to deal with it.
I see the positives of having an open-source policy as
1) AMSAT will be able to work with international partners, which would
probably not be allowed under a proprietary ITAR policy.
2) It may help keep old satellites running in the future. AO-27 required an
extensive software fix to be brought online. I'm not sure if this was open
source or not, but having the software and hardware information public
would definitely give more people a chance to develop solutions.
3) It's in the spirit of amateur radio and helps avoid debates regarding
proprietary hardware and software, like the never-ending arguments over
PACTOR.
I can see negatives as well
1) Manufacturers of space-rated hardware may want certain aspects kept
private, and it might not be possible to easily find or make an open-source
replacement. How extensive is the ITAR carve-out? If you use just one
proprietary component, does that take you out of the carve-out?
2) It may force AMSAT to abandon long-standing relationships (whatever's in
those NDAs), which could greatly affect ongoing projects.
I'd like to hear a response from those wanting to keep a proprietary
policy. What about it outweighs an open policy? Would an open policy work,
but maybe further down the road?
If AMSAT won't call BOD meetings to have civilized discussions, maybe we
can do it over the BB :)
-Stephen, N8URE
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 14:36:39 -0700
From: John Spasojevich <johnag9d@?????.???>
To: Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a@?????.???>
Cc: Clint Bradford <clintbradford@???.???>, "amsat-bb@?????.????
<amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who I?m NOT Voting For (Short)
Message-ID:
<CA+qbou46tNd-gkC29XUT4aJXbe-hR=kCUX4bSGWWU_sEvwSnDg@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I took a tour...man what the hell...it reminds me of the old ham sexy
website in some ways.
What?s the point.
John AG9D
On Wednesday, July 15, 2020, Mike Diehl via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
> Clint,
>
> No need to send screenshots, everyone can just use the Wayback Machine
> here http://web.archive.org/web/20181227011914/http://work-sats.com/
>
> 73,
> Mike Diehl
> W8LID/VE6LID
>
> > On Jul 15, 2020, at 10:10, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> > ?Patrick and Jeff created a Web site In 2018 using my Web site?s name -
> but added the plural of my work-sat.com - they used ?Sats.?
> >
> > The site was solely created to demean myself and Gordon West. The posts
> were obscene, vile, insulting, and vicious in their attacks. Most of their
> posts are too objectionable to post on a public forum like this: posts like
> two rats fornicating and writing that my satellite inquiry phone number of
> 800-999-SATS could also use the alpha characters, 800-999-RATS.
> >
> > If anyone is interested in reading screenshots of their work, I will
> privately email them to you.
> >
> > Stoddard and Johns will not be receiving my vote.
> >
> > Clint Bradford K6LCS
> > 909-999-SATS
> >
> > PS They let the GoDaddy domain name expire after a year. I registered it
> immediately - and it is now redirected to my site.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 14:43:32 -0700
From: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
To: John Spasojevich <johnag9d@?????.???>
Cc: Clint Bradford <clintbradford@???.???>, "amsat-bb@?????.????
<amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who I?m NOT Voting For (Short)
Message-ID:
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You're going to bring the moderator down on the list again.
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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 17:33:23 -0500
From: sean fay <spatrickfay@?????.???>
To: Greg <almetco@???????.???>
Cc: Clint Bradford <clintbradford@???.???>, amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who I?m NOT Voting For (Short)
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Yes the racist lid that this website describes should not be voted for
Glad you agree
AA0AN
On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 5:26 PM Greg via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
> LID/LCS
>
> Wow, that is so chidish it borders on issues with emotional IQ ?glad you
> brought that to my attention because it will influence my vote..
>
> N3MVF
>
>
>
> On Jul 15, 2020, at 11:17 AM, Mike Diehl via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
> wrote:
>
> Clint,
>
> No need to send screenshots, everyone can just use the Wayback Machine
> here http://web.archive.org/web/20181227011914/http://work-sats.com/
>
> 73,
> Mike Diehl
> W8LID/VE6LID
>
> > On Jul 15, 2020, at 10:10, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> > ?Patrick and Jeff created a Web site In 2018 using my Web site?s name -
> but added the plural of my work-sat.com - they used ?Sats.?
> >
> > The site was solely created to demean myself and Gordon West. The posts
> were obscene, vile, insulting, and vicious in their attacks. Most of their
> posts are too objectionable to post on a public forum like this: posts like
> two rats fornicating and writing that my satellite inquiry phone number of
> 800-999-SATS could also use the alpha characters, 800-999-RATS.
> >
> > If anyone is interested in reading screenshots of their work, I will
> privately email them to you.
> >
> > Stoddard and Johns will not be receiving my vote.
> >
> > Clint Bradford K6LCS
> > 909-999-SATS
> >
> > PS They let the GoDaddy domain name expire after a year. I registered it
> immediately - and it is now redirected to my site.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 259
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