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CX2SA > SATDIG 17.07.20 23:40l 812 Lines 32294 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Members Please Read (Chad KG0MW)
2. Re: Moderation and personal attacks (Fernando Ramirez)
3. Re: Members Please Read (Clint Bradford)
4. Re: NASA and Open Source (Joseph Armbruster)
5. Re: request detailed system diagram for remoting a satellite
station (Leffke, Zachary)
6. Re: Testing (Bruce Perens)
7. Re: Members Please Read (W3AB/GEO)
8. Re: Members Please Read (Chad KG0MW)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 19:46:41 +0000
From: Chad KG0MW <chad.kg0mw@?????.???>
To: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>, "Paul F. Merrill"
<marinesvcs@?????.???>
Cc: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
Message-ID:
<CH2PR12MB3893DEE9132C4692F862B7C1A97C0@?????????????.????????.????.???????.??
?>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Roberts Rules of Order are a great guideline. But they do not teach you how
to socially interact with one another or how to gain the trust of someone..
C
?On 7/13/20, 8:26 AM, "AMSAT-BB on behalf of Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB"
<amsat-bb-bounces@?????.??? on behalf of amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
Paul,
Roberts Rules are regarding parliamentary procedure. AMSAT's bylaws are at
https://www.amsat.org/bylaws-of-the-radio-amateur-satellite-corporation/ .
They do not specify parliamentary procedure. They are about
responsibilities of a director, elections, etc. And if you have the
choice,
Roberts is an antique, good parliamentarians use Sturgis.
Bruce
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:12 PM Paul F. Merrill via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> I agree that this mailing list has strayed from its strongest
contribution:
> satellite information, discussion, and mentoring.
>
> I come from, and have been on the BOD of, a professional organization
for a
> number of years now.
>
> FWIW, I know too well that an organization often lawyers up to protect
> itself, and in our issues, our attorney was engaged to act solely on
behalf
> of the Organization and not necessarily current management.
>
> This thread has turned in to a long, ugly diatribe filled with
accusations,
> counter-accusations, and painfully-obvious shills. I am a
recently-renewed
> member who doesn?t have a dog in the fight, so I just want what?s best
for
> AMSAT.
>
> Sadly, the stereotypes are starting to show - the members who contribute
> nothing but want to tear down those ?In power,? the members who
contribute
> nothing and don?t want anyone to make waves, and the few who actually do
> anything. As a number of people have commented, working in a
non-profit or
> unpaid leadership role is utterly thankless, which is lost on many
people -
> especially those who have never labored in this sort of endeavor.
>
> My favorite story from our times of trouble is when our Parliamentarian
> said, ?Roberts Rules are the last refuge of a scoundrel. Grown men and
> women should be able to comport themselves reasonably...but then I?d
be out
> of a job.? I?m taking a little license with his exact words, but the
> sentiment, along with my experience, formed my native distrust of
those who
> are right and everyone and everything before them is wrong.
So...there?s
> my bias. I will examine that, and all the information I can before I
> vote. I hope everyone else will take the time and expend the effort to
> vote as intelligently as they can.
>
> My overriding guidance to my Association is that we contribute to the
group
> so that we all benefit from the group. A strong organization should
> outlive us.
>
> Personally, I can?t wait to vote and hopefully put a fork in this.
>
> Paul / W7IV
>
>
>
> ????????-
>
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 19:27:24 -0700
> From: "Daron Wilson" <daron@??????.???>
> To: "'AMSAT BB'" <amsat-bb@?????.???>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
> Message-ID: <00b501d658bd$26119cc0$7234d640$@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Is there a bulletin board that discusses amateur radio satellites
> operations still? Asking for a friend. This is getting old.
>
>
> Daron N7HQR
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 12:49:12 -0700
From: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer@?????.???>
To: Ev Tupis <w2ev@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT -BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Moderation and personal attacks
Message-ID:
<CAGHXx8g7fTOKUbY8k3ekNA5uB35gVaSVO6rEaka2T3Yo3RXT5Q@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I don't have a problem with enforcing the established rules. I do have a
problem with arbitrarily enforcing those rules.
I do agree that politeness takes less effort than not being polite.
On Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 12:08 PM Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
> In reply to:
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> "It is best to not imagine. Avoid making up reasons. It is best to know
> that moderators will step in and act when they think it is in the best
> interests of the list. List members do not need to agree or disagree with
> their decision."
>
> Wow, I'm glad this is only an internet bulletin board and not a
> government!
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Exactly. This is not a government. It is an internet bulletin board
> system with a specific purpose that is known (and expected) to be moderated
> when its custodian believes message moderation is needed.
>
> There is nothing wrong with being polite. There is much wrong with not
> being polite.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 13:25:48 -0700
From: Clint Bradford <clintbradford@???.???>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
Message-ID: <9BED4E43-B35F-474B-A3AC-D7667D48E3F6@???.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Why are you comparing the legal expenditures with membership fees?
Di you discover that membership fees were used in any manner for those
expenses?
If not, then why don?t we compare that amount with, say, Apples or
Watermelons?
> On Jul 17, 2020, at 12:46 PM, amsat-bb-request@?????.??? wrote:
>
>> Now we learn that the expenditure is over 16k. That is 363 memberships,
if this retired engineer's math is correct.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 16:29:59 -0400
From: Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster@?????.???>
To: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] NASA and Open Source
Message-ID:
<CADkz4c8Y_VMAGMB3sU4hxSfkC5=2tFSoZaCgOudX9pOi-eD8qw@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Bruce,
Yeah, NASA (and other government agencies) have been promoting OSS for
quite some time and some even have some long-standing projects, ref:
WorldWind. And something worth noting, is that with the government,
what they mean by OSS can sometimes be misleading. There is GOTS
(Government Off The Shelf) OSS and non-GOTS OSS. Meaning, it could be
regular OSS lib, but accessible only in a repository that is only
accessible by government contractors / programs that have a need, and
never really return code to the public domain (but do maintain
changes). This is quite commonplace. I am not sure if that's what
they mean in this case of the grant, specifically. NASAs WorldWind,
has source repositories in the public domain and has for many years (I
may be in the commit logs somewhere), so some definitely do work that
way.
Projects like GDAL have benefited greatly from government / OSS
integration. But then, you have situations like LAS Tools Right Now,
where the main developer purportedly made some kind of a threat about
adding malicious code to it, so gov agencies are asking everyone to
immediately uninstall QGIS (open source GIS package, that utilizes las
tools out of the box). I don't know if this has been validated but
you can find bits and pieces around the net about it. Which brings me
to my next point.
Sometimes, if you're working a government contract and you want to use
a particular OSS library, they do not allow you to just download it
and use it. You can however, purchase it through a trusted
third-party company. All due to liability issues. As a result, you
can literally burn, box and sell, literally Free software. The
problem is, what if libtiff pokes a hole in the firewall every three
image opens? And, don't laugh, i've seen weird stuff happen over the
years. The funniest, was an API function to "create a folder" at a
path, that, if the folder already exists, it would actually traverse
the folder and delete all files / folders found underneath it. No
joke. Now, due to some bad // \\ path handling in the lib, when
passed a path like this: C://something//and//some//place, it
accidentally started wiping everything in the root of the C:/ drive.
The first tool user that experienced that, was not a happy camper :-)
The OSS path handling lib wasn't explicitly malicious, it was just bad
path handling in the lib causing the problem, but bygons. Liability
is a royal PITA.
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO
On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 2:18 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> I am reading a NASA Grant application today, and noticed this text:
>
> Program elements will give preference to proposals that include a plan for
> committing
> software as Open Source Software (OSS), beginning at the inception of the
> proposed
> work. This plan will include the identification of software components
> developed as part
> of the proposed work, and designate a permissive, widely accepted OSS
> license and a
> public repository hosting service for these components.
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 20:31:55 +0000
From: "Leffke, Zachary" <zleffke@??.???>
To: AMSAT <AMSAT-BB@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] request detailed system diagram for remoting a
satellite station
Message-ID:
<MN2PR05MB7037B82A1EB459A7EB4C2C4EDF7C0@?????????????.????????.????.???????.??
?>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
My 'Quick' answers (TL;DR version below):
1. Think about VPNs for secure access and 'freedom' to connect to various
devices in various ways all through an encrypted tunnel. By freedom I mean
avoiding weird port forwarding rules and such in the firewalls. We use
OpenVPN heavily in the VTGS, with our firewalls running the server side
(look into pfSense for an awesome firewall solution with native OpenVPN
support).
2. Numato Relays for low voltage control
((https://numato.com/product/8-channel-ethernet-relay-module). Both a
webserver interface and a low level telnet interface for control through
external programs. We use it to control things like LNA power, Polarization
switch control, radio power (SDRs for us), tracking control box power, etc.
(We also use a IP controllable AC strip, but mainly for the 'nuke it from
orbit' solution if we need to power cycle something). For anything high
current the numato relays also offer extra digital I/O ports on the same
relay boards via standard 0.1 inch headers that can be used to control
things like high current FET switches (W6PQL has a good example:
https://www.w6pql.com/high_current_solid-state_dc_switch.htm). This might
be handy for things like controlling rig power if it sucks more current
during TX than the numato relays can handle.
3. 'rigctl' and 'rotctl' for controlling radios and rotators
(respectively). Lots of support out there. As mentioned, SatNOGS is a good
resource for this. Both can run on an RPi with USB style interfaces to the
Rig / Rotator control box. We use IP controllable systems at VT (mostly
Spid MD-01s) which can be controlled by rotctl or via custom software.
4. We used to use 'ffmpeg' as an audio streaming server (winner of the
'lowest latency' contest when we were searching for this kind of solution,
compared to things like 'icecast'). On the 'receive side' we just used VLC
media player. A low cost USB audio card + an RPi (I think the RPi jack was
only audio out, no mic in, but I could be wrong about that) could work for
the audio connection to a HW rig. PulseAudio has a great interface for
setting up the audio routing and loopbacks and such if you need them (it's a
bit like a swiss army knife for this sort of thing). There are also a few
other low level command line utilities, and some cripting might make it
easier to set up a two way connection. There are also some remote desktop
utilities that include audio features. I think the one we used for a while
was 'NoMachine' but we switched to 'X2Go' so that we could play games with
GPU accelerated FFTs and OpenGL rendering (for gr-fosphor spectrum displays
for those curious) that di
dn't work over other remote desktop solutions. There are probably a lot
newer solutions for this now (its been a few years since we've messed with
audio streaming).
5. Almost all of the VTGS code is on Github: https://github.com/vt-gs.
There might be some nuggets buried in there useful for you (maybe the relay
control code and/or the Spid control code if you want to do it with python,
Eagle/Kicad boards for PA control and the companion network control
software, etc.). Fair warning, its constantly changing and is pretty
specific to our system, but still you might find something useful there.
TL;DR version:
Most of our setup at the VT ground station is remote over IP connections
(even our VHF/UHF PA system). We use SDRs + GNU Radio, so its also a little
different compared to folks using HW radios. Its pretty non-standard and
constantly changing, and I don't have an 'easy' diagram to share (more like
a few hundred slides of the evolution over the years). At a super high
level, we run everything on a LAN at the tracking station and then remotely
connect to it over VPN connections. From there the remote system can then
access individual servers/devices over SSH, through low level message
passing protocols (RMQ and/or ZeroMQ),and even lower level TCP/UDP sockets,
etc. etc. Using the VPN is 1) secure and 2) avoids crazy weird firewall
rules for port forwarding.
For the remote power control, we also use a remote (IP) controllable AC
strip. I use this for the 'high level' remote power control and typically a
human is accessing it and controlling things through the built in webserver.
For 'lower level' power control (typically DC) I use IP controllable relays
from Numato Relay
(https://numato.com/product/8-channel-ethernet-relay-module). They have a
nifty built in webserver as well as an interface over telnet (a little
archaic, but easily interfaced with using Python modules) for control from
external programs. We mostly only run low voltage/low current devices
through these relays, like LNAs, Polarization control, USRP power (the SDRs
we use, 6VDC), the 15VDC supply to the MD01 so we can turn the tracker off
(NOT the 24V motor supply!), etc. etc. We don't do things like TX/RX
sequencing with this, mainly due to latency concerns over a network, and
that is handled by the transmitter 'deck' that has interfaces into things
like the LNA PTT
lines.
For tracking control, we also use IP addressable systems. In our case its
mostly Spid MD-01s with the Ethernet module add on. We also use serial to
IP converters and a 'faux-yaesu' interface (basically an Arduino and some
circuitry that emulates the yaesu interface box) for controlling some yaesu
rotators. If I could start over, I would have thought more about using
things like 'rotctl' and 'rigctl'. Problem with that for us at VT is we
work with something like 10 different manufacturers' versions of 'tracking
pedestals' that are never likely to be supported by rotctl because most
aren't for Amateur Radio (like FLIR and MOOG systems), but we are working
towards a unified 'tracking daemon' that has to account for all flavors of
PTU. As mentioned, SatNOGS has good stuff on this front.
For the specific issue of audio streaming, I have only come up with two
'workable' solutions over the years, though it has been a while. The main
issue was latency. A lot of the solutions at the time were fine for like
podcast streaming where some delay was no big deal (like 'icecast'), but
SUPER frustrating if trying to tune by ear for a linear bird on sideband
(you'd tune....then like 30 seconds later you'd hear the audio change). We
finally settled on 'ffmpeg' for the audio streaming 'server'. For the
receive side I just used VLC media player. I think ffmpeg has been absorbed
into other open source audio projects, but I can't remember which one off
the top of my head. The other solution was actually a remote desktop
solution called 'NoMachine'. It was a little cludgy at the time, but it was
remote desktop combined with audio support and the audio latency was
imperceptible. All of this was 5+ years ago, and as already mentioned,
there are probably a lot better solutions out
there. In all cases I'd recommend '
Finally, almost all our code is on Github (and eventually our documentation
will be as well). Feel free to take a look, but fair warning, its
constantly changing and pretty specific to our system. There might be
nuggets in there that are useful to you though (like the Numato Relay
control stuff if you go that route and you want to control them through
Python, or python code for controlling MD-01s/Spid rotators):
https://github.com/vt-gs
Good Luck! Feel free to reach out (on or off list) if you have more
questions about any of the above!
-Zach, KJ4QLP
P.S. I just realized the TL;DR version is about as long as the 'quick'
version.....sorry.
--
Research Associate
Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab
Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
Work Phone: 540-231-4174
Cell Phone: 540-808-6305
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 13:32:17 -0700
From: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
To: Chad KG0MW <chad.kg0mw@?????.???>
Cc: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Testing
Message-ID:
<CAK2MWOs4zGwkBDRKyNMaShSTTKbgoOtA67WSM4PXm0iT2WJHGQ@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Bob McGwier's credentials exceed anyone on the board except for Tom Clark,
who is stepping down and has endorsed Bob to replace him. Howie is pretty
highly achieved in the satellite world, and I am intrigued by Jeff's
background in Kaizen. This stuff has taken over companies to an astonishing
degree, and gives them a way to rationally manage processes that we did not
understand how to manage before.
These folks are not *just *new blood.
Thanks
Bruce
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 13:41:11 -0700
From: W3AB/GEO <w3ab@?????.???>
To: Chad KG0MW <chad.kg0mw@?????.???>
Cc: "Paul F. Merrill" <marinesvcs@?????.???>, Amsat BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
Message-ID: <87170a10-2b8e-4fb3-90ae-58d29d1e7b88@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Chad,
The use of RROO assumes that one understands civility & will act
accordingly.? lol
?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?
On Jul 17, 2020, 13:26, at 13:26, Chad KG0MW via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>Roberts Rules of Order are a great guideline. But they do not teach you
>how to socially interact with one another or how to gain the trust of
>someone..
>
>
>C
>
>
>?On 7/13/20, 8:26 AM, "AMSAT-BB on behalf of Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB"
><amsat-bb-bounces@?????.??? on behalf of amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
>Roberts Rules are regarding parliamentary procedure. AMSAT's bylaws are
>at
>https://www.amsat.org/bylaws-of-the-radio-amateur-satellite-corporation/
>.
> They do not specify parliamentary procedure. They are about
>responsibilities of a director, elections, etc. And if you have the
>choice,
> Roberts is an antique, good parliamentarians use Sturgis.
>
> Bruce
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:12 PM Paul F. Merrill via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
>> I agree that this mailing list has strayed from its strongest
>contribution:
> > satellite information, discussion, and mentoring.
> >
>> I come from, and have been on the BOD of, a professional organization
>for a
> > number of years now.
> >
>> FWIW, I know too well that an organization often lawyers up to
>protect
>> itself, and in our issues, our attorney was engaged to act solely on
>behalf
> > of the Organization and not necessarily current management.
> >
>> This thread has turned in to a long, ugly diatribe filled with
>accusations,
>> counter-accusations, and painfully-obvious shills. I am a
>recently-renewed
>> member who doesn?t have a dog in the fight, so I just want what?s
>best for
> > AMSAT.
> >
>> Sadly, the stereotypes are starting to show - the members who
>contribute
>> nothing but want to tear down those ?In power,? the members who
>contribute
>> nothing and don?t want anyone to make waves, and the few who actually
>do
>> anything. As a number of people have commented, working in a
>non-profit or
>> unpaid leadership role is utterly thankless, which is lost on many
>people -
> > especially those who have never labored in this sort of endeavor.
> >
>> My favorite story from our times of trouble is when our
>Parliamentarian
>> said, ?Roberts Rules are the last refuge of a scoundrel. Grown men
>and
>> women should be able to comport themselves reasonably...but then I?d
>be out
>> of a job.? I?m taking a little license with his exact words, but
>the
>> sentiment, along with my experience, formed my native distrust of
>those who
>> are right and everyone and everything before them is wrong.
>So...there?s
>> my bias. I will examine that, and all the information I can before I
>> vote. I hope everyone else will take the time and expend the effort
>to
> > vote as intelligently as they can.
> >
>> My overriding guidance to my Association is that we contribute to the
>group
> > so that we all benefit from the group. A strong organization should
> > outlive us.
> >
> > Personally, I can?t wait to vote and hopefully put a fork in this.
> >
> > Paul / W7IV
> >
> >
> >
> > ????????-
> >
> > Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 19:27:24 -0700
> > From: "Daron Wilson" <daron@??????.???>
> > To: "'AMSAT BB'" <amsat-bb@?????.???>
> > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
> > Message-ID: <00b501d658bd$26119cc0$7234d640$@???>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Is there a bulletin board that discusses amateur radio satellites
> > operations still? Asking for a friend. This is getting old.
> >
> >
> > Daron N7HQR
> > _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions
> > expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of
> > AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>> Subscription settings:
>https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>Opinions expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>of AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 20:52:19 +0000
From: Chad KG0MW <chad.kg0mw@?????.???>
To: W3AB/GEO <w3ab@?????.???>
Cc: "Paul F. Merrill" <marinesvcs@?????.???>, Amsat BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
Message-ID:
<CH2PR12MB38932406F6935F1338CAC866A97C0@?????????????.????????.????.???????.??
?>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
You are right about that!
C
From: W3AB/GEO <w3ab@?????.???>
Date: Friday, July 17, 2020 at 3:41 PM
To: Chad KG0MW <chad.kg0mw@?????.???>
Cc: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>, "Paul F. Merrill"
<marinesvcs@?????.???>, Amsat BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
Chad,
The use of RROO assumes that one understands civility & will act
accordingly. lol
___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO
On Jul 17, 2020, at 13:26, Chad KG0MW via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???<???????????????@?????.???>> wrote:
Roberts Rules of Order are a great guideline. But they do not teach you how
to socially interact with one another or how to gain the trust of someone..
C
?On 7/13/20, 8:26 AM, "AMSAT-BB on behalf of Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB"
<amsat-bb-bounces@?????.??? on behalf of amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
Paul,
Roberts Rules are regarding parliamentary procedure. AMSAT's bylaws are at
https://www.amsat.org/bylaws-of-the-radio-amateur-satellite-corporation/ .
They do not specify parliamentary procedure. They are about
responsibilities of a director, elections, etc. And if you have the
choice,
Roberts is an antique, good parliamentarians use Sturgis.
Bruce
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:12 PM Paul F. Merrill via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
I agree that this mailing list has strayed from its strongest contribution:
satellite information, discussion, and mentoring.
I come from, and have been on the BOD of, a professional organization for a
number of years now.
FWIW, I know too well that an organization often lawyers up to protect
itself, and in our issues, our attorney was engaged to act solely on behalf
of the Organization and not necessarily current management.
This thread has turned in to a long, ugly diatribe filled with accusations,
counter-accusations, and painfully-obvious shills. I am a recently-renewed
member who doesn?t have a dog in the fight, so I just want what?s best for
AMSAT.
Sadly, the stereotypes are starting to show - the members who contribute
nothing but want to tear down those ?In power,? the members who contribute
nothing and don?t want anyone to make waves, and the few who actually do
anything. As a number of people have commented, working in a non-profit or
unpaid leadership role is utterly thankless, which is lost on many people -
especially those who have never labored in this sort of endeavor.
My favorite story from our times of trouble is when our Parliamentarian
said, ?Roberts Rules are the last refuge of a scoundrel. Grown men and
women should be able to comport themselves reasonably...but then I?d be out
of a job.? I?m taking a little license with his exact words, but the
sentiment, along with my experience, formed my native distrust of those who
are right and everyone and everything before them is wrong. So...there?s
my bias. I will examine that, and all the information I can before I
vote. I hope everyone else will take the time and expend the effort to
vote as intelligently as they can.
My overriding guidance to my Association is that we contribute to the group
so that we all benefit from the group. A strong organization should
outlive us.
Personally, I can?t wait to vote and hopefully put a fork in this.
Paul / W7IV
????????-
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 19:27:24 -0700
From: "Daron Wilson" <daron@??????.???>
To: "'AMSAT BB'" <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
Message-ID: <00b501d658bd$26119cc0$7234d640$@???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Is there a bulletin board that discusses amateur radio satellites
operations still? Asking for a friend. This is getting old.
Daron N7HQR
________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 271
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