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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Leveraging Satnogs recordings ( was: request detailed
system diagram for remoting a satellite station) (Leffke, Zachary)
2. Re: Leveraging Satnogs recordings ( was: request detailed
system diagram for remoting a satellite station) (Leffke, Zachary)
3. Re: Websites Down ? amsat.org and parens.com (John Brier)
4. Re: Websites Down ? amsat.org and parens.com (Kenneth P Alexander)
5. Re: Members Please Read (Clint Bradford)
6. GOLF Equipment (Clint Bradford)
7. Re: Candidate WE4B Inquiry (Clint Bradford)
8. Re: Wise Legal Expenses (Robert MacHale)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 04:15:06 +0000
From: "Leffke, Zachary" <zleffke@??.???>
To: AMSAT <AMSAT-BB@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Leveraging Satnogs recordings ( was: request
detailed system diagram for remoting a satellite station)
Message-ID:
<MN2PR05MB70375507DE29530D76981E53DF7D0@?????????????.????????.????.???????.??
?>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sorry, another TL;DR...but hey its Friday night, what else have I got to
do.....The one sentence version of the below is 'it would be cool if the
SatNOGS network could record raw IQ, and then that could all be brought
together at a central processing location to do some really cool
stuff.'.....here comes the longer version........
I'm also generally 'pro-SatNOGS' (they started right about when I published
my Master's thesis about GS networks! I wish they had been there sooner or
I had known about them earlier....would have been a great addition to the
work). I was furiously writing to finish my thesis while they were out
winning the Hack-a-day prize. I'll admit I was jealous at first......but I
quickly got over my "hate 'em cause I ain't 'em" problem because what they
are up to is just too cool (and every time I talk with someone from their
team face to face, they have all been super nice enthusiastic folks!). I'll
freely admit I haven't had time to participate in the network myself or with
VTGS systems, though that is mainly due to us not being 'ready' in terms of
things like system automation (just not enough hours in a given day....this
whole sleep thing is a real downer). That said, the VT Amateur Radio club,
K4KDJ, a separate entity from our ground station (though with overlapping
people, I used to b
e an officer in K4KDJ when I was a student) is considering setting a node up.
Here's one thought (laid out in a list) for the SatNOGS folks (This is a
total 'feature request' of which I'm sure they get a lot......this is not a
poke against them, more 'hey here's a fun idea' type thing. If I had more
time I'd actually try to get more involved on this front). What follows is
a total 'thinking out loud', not fully thought through, brain dump of some
ideas I've been kicking around for a couple years now (I guess since at
least 2013/2014.....but the existence of the SatNOGS network makes it seem
more feasible now), so feel free to skip. I know others have had similar
thoughts, so I also no way claim this as solely my own idea.....(AMSAT in
general and Douglas, KA2UPW and Joe, KM1P specifically were in the
acknowledgments section of the thesis specifically because of some
conversations in this arena and for their super positive encouragement to a
newby, Bob McGwier, N4HY was my committee chair....). I'm sure there are
others I've talked about this with (maybe al
so Chris Thompson), these ideas have been 'marinating' over the last few
years and I can't remember every conversation I've had........
1. One thing I think would be REALLY fun to explore is raw IQ captures
shared over their network. The recorded audio is great, and I'm 100% behind
what Douglas mentioned. However, if the recording point could be moved
'upstream' a bit to the raw IQ samples, some really interesting applications
could be explored. Cross correlating the IQ streams to determine things
like time difference of arrival and frequency difference of arrival can lead
to things like orbit determination...something that might be of interest for
folks burning Ion thrusters (or solar sails) and don't want to wait for TLE
updates.....I'm thinking for future HEO efforts on this front, but the
general theory/application could be applied across the various orbital
regimes from LEO out to GEO and beyond. The familiar 'Fox Tail' on the Fox
bird might make for a good 'target' for this type of thing.
2. One requirement for this to work properly is good timing references at
the ground stations though (RTL SDR and FCDPP oscillators are prob not good
enough), GPSDOs and other oscillators would be desirable (and are not hard
to come by these days...QEX has some great articles, ebay has surplus,
etc.). If reference signals can be sent over a transponder (PN sequences to
make the correlations that much simpler to identify is what I'm thinking
here) with a known group delay, with precise freq/time control, then there
is potential to explore applications and resolving timing ambiguities
between station pairs, even if they don't have 'great' oscillators (room to
experiment!). Even with good timing references, you then have to make sure
that's properly integrated with the SDR software actually executing the
recordings (see #5 below for potential solution to part of that problem).
I'm sure Tom Clark, K3IO with his long history of VLBI work might have some
advice on this front (along with
others). For those involved with ADSB collection over the Flightaware
network (similar to SatNOGS....but different and for collecting
transmissions from general and commercial aviation aircraft), they do
something similar as part of their multilateration processing (using the
'known location' message bursts to resolve timing residuals between station
pairs, and then using the residuals to correct the timing offsets when
geolocating the messages/emitters that don't have position info in
them....they call it 'MLAT'). Big difference is they don't send IQ, just
'precise' timestamps of the received messages......but I bring it up because
all their Python code is open source and on github for the multilateration
process....and might be a useful starting point.
3. Raw IQ recordings come with an obvious tough requirement....storage
capacity and network bandwidth. IQ sample captures will be MUCH larger than
the audio recording of the same pass. Perhaps some type of prototype system
could be set up though to 'get started' that doesn't break the bank where
certain systems (maybe volunteer stations that have the oscillator/timing
features mentioned) are tasked for specific experiments on this front (not
normal ops that might generate way too much data).
4. Then there is the central storage/computing resources needed to run the
correlations. With modern compute resources (including cloud services), the
cost of that effort doesn't necessarily have to break the bank (especially
if a willing university....with big honkin GPUs in server stacks that are
currently underutilized, with a research faculty member interested in GS
networks and novel applications, who is also a ham, and a lifetime member of
AMSAT......... are willing to free up some system time ;-) hi hi, at least
maybe for some prototyping on this front).
5. then there is the appropriate tagging of metadata necessary to take full
advantage of the timing information. For this I would recommend the Signal
Metadata Format (aka SigMF) (https://github.com/gnuradio/SigMF). While it
grew out of GNU Radio (and there are OOTMs for GNU Radio support) it is not
specifically tied to the GNU Radio project and can be used for anything
(literally any time series of data, even for stuff that is 'not radio' if
desired). I use it extensively for signal collection work and keeping track
of the myriad bits of info that needs to be tracked along with the raw IQ
(the metadata is in JSON format, super easy to use). Their 'extensions'
framework is ingenious, and allows folks to 'extend' the specification for
custom metadata formats not already covered in the spec.
6. Finally, if all of the above can be accomplished, then there is another
application that could be explored beyond the satellite tracking, signal
combining. Imagine if there were packets transmitted that no single ground
station could decode due to lack of sufficient SNR.....but then all the IQ
streams are brought together, the correlations are performed and the streams
are time aligned, and summed (perhaps with weighting)........the random
nature of the noise drives its average lower, while the not so random nature
of the signal drives its average higher (massive oversimplification of the
idea).....leading to higher SNR....leading to potentially high enough SNR to
demodulate the otherwise 'lost' packets. There are lots of techniques out
there for this sort of thing in the DSP world, right now I'm thinking
'maximal ratio signal combining' that applies weights to the summing process
based on the measured SNR at each station.
7. Finally, Finally. Imagine the ground stations involved were using omni
antennas. Also imagine multiple birds were overhead and in the recording
bandwidth. Theres nothing stopping you from going back in time, doing a bit
of preprocessing (maybe coarse tuning for the target bird using TLEs,
filtering for the specific signal of interest, etc.) and then re-executing
the above process.
All of the above is pretty complicated to do, and I didn't cover every
little technical detail or 'gotcha' type problem......but I think it could
be a lot of fun to explore as a team.....if there is enough interest,
perhaps some collaboration on this front and ideas for proposals could be
put together to explore more.....I'm also betting the 'super-Elmers' out
there (like the Bobs, Toms, and Phils) could figure out the math for this
sort of thing in their sleep.
If you're reading this line....then THANKS! For sticking with the thinking
out loud brain dump on this topic......as always, feedback is welcome (on or
off list).
-Zach, KJ4QLP
--
Research Associate
Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab
Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
Work Phone: 540-231-4174
Cell Phone: 540-808-6305
-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???> On Behalf Of Douglas Quagliana
via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 8:19 PM
To: peter@??????.???? Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) <peter@????????.??.??>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Leveraging Satnogs recordings ( was: request detailed
system diagram for remoting a satellite station)
On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 4:49 PM Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> Sadly Satnogs isn't suitable for the job being it's for telemetry only,
> also I don't believe it forwards telemetry to AMSAT-NA or AMSAT-UK so radio
> amateurs would be better off with a different solution.
>
Friends,
Satnogs is an incredible and incredibly underutilized resource for AMSAT.
It doesn't automatically forward telemetry, but you can go to the
appropriate Satnogs site, filter on the satellite you want and download the
audio recording of the pass (or passes) that you want. Then
lather-rinse-repeat for as many passes as you want. I would never have been
able to create as many recordings myself at my home QTH as I can get by
downloading them from Satnogs. You can get recordings from anywhere on the
planet where there was a ground station that made a recording. (If you're
fully onboard you could even schedule somebody else to make a recording for
you on a particular date/time in the future. Think about that.)
A while back I downloaded several months worth of old Falconsat-3 audio
recordings so that I could run the recordings through my own 9600 DSP
demodulator and see if I could recover any data from the recordings, and
improve the demodulator as much as possible. I wrote some scripts to
convert and filter each ogg recording and then run them all through my
demodulator. This whole scheme actually worked too well, as I now have
more than enough recordings to keep me busy for a long long time because it
takes my old computer DAYS to process through ALL of those recordings
[footnote 1] and to decide if the latest tweak was an improvement or not.
(Think about your last visit to the eye doctor where you watch the eye
chart through the phoropter [footnote 2] while the eye doctor makes
adjustments to the lenses and asks you if this one is now "Better? Or
worse?" -- well, this is almost the same thing but it takes three days to
find out the answer for each change. But, I digress...)
So far, of the recordings that I downloaded, the most extreme pass is
https://network.satnogs.org/observations/180707/
the audio recording is eighteen megabytes and is online at
https://ia902808.us.archive.org/7/items/satnogs-observation-180707/satnogs_180
707_2018-07-12T00-08-11.ogg
The satnogs webpage for this pass shows 644 valid 9600 baud AX.25 packets
this recording so you know it is a good pass with plenty of frames in it.
By throwing everything I can think of at this recording, I can now get over
1000 good frames out of it. Oh, and, hey, if anybody else tries this
recording against their own demodulator, then whatever results you get
please send them to me so I can look for any valid frames I am missing.
And the advantage of the satnogs recordings is that you can keep tweaking
your software iteratively by running the recordings against the "new"
demodulator again, and again, and again, and compare the results. You
could never achieve this or iterate this many times with live satellite
passes.
73,
Douglas KA2UPW/5
[1] If the whole process doesn't get interrupted... Actually, this says
more about my old slow computer than it says about the speed of the
demodulator.
[2] If you get your eyes checked then you know this device. You just might
not know the name for it. Consider "phoropter" to be today's new
word-of-the-day. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoropter
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 04:38:59 +0000
From: "Leffke, Zachary" <zleffke@??.???>
To: AMSAT <AMSAT-BB@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Leveraging Satnogs recordings ( was: request
detailed system diagram for remoting a satellite station)
Message-ID:
<MN2PR05MB7037541BBB8E910979F41F60DF7D0@?????????????.????????.????.???????.??
?>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Also, as a quick afterthought / alternate idea....(and again, I'm not 100%
'up' on the specifics of interfacing with SatNOGS, other than the SiDS
protocol details).....
I wonder if an autmated 'scraper' of some sort could be set up for the Fox /
HuskySat-1 / GOLF spacecraft specifically for AMSAT-NA (or other AMSATs of
the world).
Simple idea is pull the recordings from SatNOGS....run them through the
decoders (maybe FoxTLM, maybe something more custom like what Douglas
mentioned he was working on, maybe a variant of that like a GNU Radio
version, maybe all three) and then inject the decoded data into the AMSAT
TLM network. I feel like some kind of batch process that executes this say
every 24 hours, or once a week, or whatever makes sense could be set up to
automate the process........
As always there is a lot of 'devil in the detail' there that I didn't
mention, and like many things it might be simple to propose, but non-trivial
to actually execute (especially on volunteer time).......
Has anyone thought along these lines, or gotten into anything like this?
Again simple summary being 'pull from SatNOGS, decode, inject to AMSAT' and
do that automatically. If such a system existed....what would the
appropriate station ID be (the original station ID? Maybe one station ID
that identifies the source of the data as a 'scraper' and then a website
keeping track of the stats for the scraper independently that maps back to
the original station?....something like 'SatNOGS-Scraper-1' with the station
details field populated with a link to the scraper stats page?.....I guess
that might get weird if the lat/lon of the scraper is constantly changing to
match the original station's position.....also how to keep accurate track of
timestamps?). Would prototyping something like this cause heartburn for the
TLM database managers (I have visions of half built 'things' flooding the
AMSAT TLM server and causing all kinds of problems). Then again, I believe
the fox server side is also
on github.....so maybe a separate prototyping instance could be set up?
Just another Friday night thought......
-Zach, KJ4QLP
--
Research Associate
Aerospace & Ocean Systems Lab
Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
Work Phone: 540-231-4174
Cell Phone: 540-808-6305
-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???> On Behalf Of Douglas Quagliana
via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 8:19 PM
To: peter@??????.???? Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) <peter@????????.??.??>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Leveraging Satnogs recordings ( was: request detailed
system diagram for remoting a satellite station)
On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 4:49 PM Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> Sadly Satnogs isn't suitable for the job being it's for telemetry only,
> also I don't believe it forwards telemetry to AMSAT-NA or AMSAT-UK so radio
> amateurs would be better off with a different solution.
>
Friends,
Satnogs is an incredible and incredibly underutilized resource for AMSAT.
It doesn't automatically forward telemetry, but you can go to the
appropriate Satnogs site, filter on the satellite you want and download the
audio recording of the pass (or passes) that you want. Then
lather-rinse-repeat for as many passes as you want. I would never have been
able to create as many recordings myself at my home QTH as I can get by
downloading them from Satnogs. You can get recordings from anywhere on the
planet where there was a ground station that made a recording. (If you're
fully onboard you could even schedule somebody else to make a recording for
you on a particular date/time in the future. Think about that.)
A while back I downloaded several months worth of old Falconsat-3 audio
recordings so that I could run the recordings through my own 9600 DSP
demodulator and see if I could recover any data from the recordings, and
improve the demodulator as much as possible. I wrote some scripts to
convert and filter each ogg recording and then run them all through my
demodulator. This whole scheme actually worked too well, as I now have
more than enough recordings to keep me busy for a long long time because it
takes my old computer DAYS to process through ALL of those recordings
[footnote 1] and to decide if the latest tweak was an improvement or not.
(Think about your last visit to the eye doctor where you watch the eye
chart through the phoropter [footnote 2] while the eye doctor makes
adjustments to the lenses and asks you if this one is now "Better? Or
worse?" -- well, this is almost the same thing but it takes three days to
find out the answer for each change. But, I digress...)
So far, of the recordings that I downloaded, the most extreme pass is
https://network.satnogs.org/observations/180707/
the audio recording is eighteen megabytes and is online at
https://ia902808.us.archive.org/7/items/satnogs-observation-180707/satnogs_180
707_2018-07-12T00-08-11.ogg
The satnogs webpage for this pass shows 644 valid 9600 baud AX.25 packets
this recording so you know it is a good pass with plenty of frames in it.
By throwing everything I can think of at this recording, I can now get over
1000 good frames out of it. Oh, and, hey, if anybody else tries this
recording against their own demodulator, then whatever results you get
please send them to me so I can look for any valid frames I am missing.
And the advantage of the satnogs recordings is that you can keep tweaking
your software iteratively by running the recordings against the "new"
demodulator again, and again, and again, and compare the results. You
could never achieve this or iterate this many times with live satellite
passes.
73,
Douglas KA2UPW/5
[1] If the whole process doesn't get interrupted... Actually, this says
more about my old slow computer than it says about the speed of the
demodulator.
[2] If you get your eyes checked then you know this device. You just might
not know the name for it. Consider "phoropter" to be today's new
word-of-the-day. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoropter
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 00:53:50 -0400
From: John Brier <johnbrier@?????.???>
To: Kenneth P Alexander <ve3hls@?????.???>
Cc: "Peter Goodhall \(2M0SQL\)" <peter@????????.??.??>, AMSAT BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Websites Down ? amsat.org and parens.com
Message-ID:
<CALn0fKO7i3eLAAzct4CR2Fi7he+CPsSxU4a1YOoYQEGswtkSnw@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
It probably was the cloudflare outage:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/news/cloudflare-is-down-outage/
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 11:46 PM Kenneth P Alexander via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> I wonder if it affected Google too? I wasn't able to connect to my
> computer in VE3 via Chrome Remote Desktop for over a day. Just returned to
> normal yesterday afternoon.
>
> Ken,
> So Phisai, Thailand
> Blog: bueng-ken.com
>
> On Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 06:27 Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> > Probably better to wait for facts before saying it was a attack
> >
> > I suspect they all used Cloudflare DNS which had an outage.
> >
> > Peter, 2M0SQL
> >
> > On Fri, 17 Jul 2020, 23:16 Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB, <
> > amsat-bb@?????.???>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Am I the only one having trouble accessing these websites?
> > > If this is an attack against either group - I strongly disapprove of
this
> > > type of hacking.
> > > Bruce - is everything okay?
> > > Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License. http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> > > . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club
> > > . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space
> > > Exploration
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions
> > > expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 05:48:10 +0000
From: Kenneth P Alexander <ve3hls@?????.???>
To: John Brier <johnbrier@?????.???>
Cc: "Peter Goodhall \(2M0SQL\)" <peter@????????.??.??>, AMSAT BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Websites Down ? amsat.org and parens.com
Message-ID:
<CAPOM0dm7hjCmh0fvtkFKvmUTz9aOcAUZ=zhSBBMtApB15mrZGg@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Interesting. Thanks John!
I hope everything stays up for the North American QSO Party (RTTY) this
weekend...
Ken, VE3HLS
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog: bueng-ken.com
On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 4:54 AM John Brier <johnbrier@?????.???> wrote:
> It probably was the cloudflare outage:
>
> https://www.digitaltrends.com/news/cloudflare-is-down-outage/
>
> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 11:46 PM Kenneth P Alexander via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> > I wonder if it affected Google too? I wasn't able to connect to my
> > computer in VE3 via Chrome Remote Desktop for over a day. Just returned
> to
> > normal yesterday afternoon.
> >
> > Ken,
> > So Phisai, Thailand
> > Blog: bueng-ken.com
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 06:27 Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> > > Probably better to wait for facts before saying it was a attack
> > >
> > > I suspect they all used Cloudflare DNS which had an outage.
> > >
> > > Peter, 2M0SQL
> > >
> > > On Fri, 17 Jul 2020, 23:16 Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB, <
> > > amsat-bb@?????.???>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Am I the only one having trouble accessing these websites?
> > > > If this is an attack against either group - I strongly disapprove of
> this
> > > > type of hacking.
> > > > Bruce - is everything okay?
> > > > Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License.
> http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> > > > . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club
> > > > . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space
> > > > Exploration
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> > > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > > Opinions
> > > > expressed
> > > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of
> > > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > > program!
> > > > Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > > expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 23:59:26 -0700
From: Clint Bradford <clintbradford@???.???>
To: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Members Please Read
Message-ID: <AB7EE488-B481-434C-A39A-7CFC36DFB65A@???.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
This is a weak argument. Weaker than weak. Just because one has a single
account does not mean that
records are not kept of what is in it, and where it came from.
Clint Bradford K6LCS
> On Jul 17, 2020, at 2:52 PM, Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???> wrote:
>
> It all goes in the same bank account.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 00:08:54 -0700
From: Clint Bradford <clintbradford@???.???>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] GOLF Equipment
Message-ID: <375225C0-A2AA-4F4D-938F-0157DF05896D@???.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
What is anticipated as a ?starter? station to wotk the first GOLF satellite
to be deployed?
Clint Bradford K6LCS
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 00:14:24 -0700
From: Clint Bradford <clintbradford@???.???>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Candidate WE4B Inquiry
Message-ID: <CC800069-0D58-4C33-8609-2E5CE3CC236F@???.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Thanks - your non-response speaks volumes.
Clint Bradford K6LCS
> On Jul 17, 2020, at 4:16 AM, Clint Bradford <clintbradford@???.???> wrote:
>
> Candidate WE4B - please list for us the projects you have volunteered for
> for AMSAT-NA. Specifically for AMSAT-NA - and not just general satellite
> contacts. Say, for the past 10 years.
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Clint Bradford K6LCS
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 12:26:15 +0000 (UTC)
From: Robert MacHale <robert.machale@?????.???>
To: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Wise Legal Expenses
Message-ID: <734207357.3585451.1595075175592@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hi Bruce,
Thanks for correcting me - again. I still remember when you corrected my
conference poster at DX Convention 2018 at my Satellite APRS talk. Touche.
[1] Dad (N6DAN) & Robert (KE6BLR)
-?https://twitter.com/robert_machale/status/1284460558092140544
You noticed the "X.25" should have read "AX.25" - rather than replace the
poster, to save money, I just added an "A" sticker from my Angels baseball
memorabilia. :)
[2] Angels Sticker
-?https://twitter.com/robert_machale/status/1284458200708743168
Glad to see you are injecting life and energy into AmSat. Remember to be
kind and patient. AmSat is not exactly a startup run by liberal technocrats;
as in most companies - conservative administrators settle in to keep the
pattern running.
[3] Bruce (K6BP) & Robert (KE6BLR)
-?https://twitter.com/robert_machale/status/1284460709342900224
Cheers!
BTW, did you notice FreeSWITCH recommends Debian - just a random observation.
>>> Debian 10 Buster?(preferred) The development team uses and builds
against Debian 10 "Buster". They recommend Debian because of its stable, yet
updated, kernel and wide support.?
For reference:
https://freeswitch.org/confluence/display/FREESWITCH/Installation
Robert MacHale
. KE6BLR Ham Radio License
.?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
.?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
. Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi
Cliff!Political Quote:?He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas
Paine
Presidential Quote by George Washington:?May the Children of the?Stock of
Abraham, who dwell in this land, continue to merit and enjoy the good will
of the other Inhabitants; while every one shall sit in safety under his own
vine and figtree, and there shall be none to make him afraid.
On Friday, July 17, 2020, 08:07:47 PM PDT, Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
wrote:
Hi Robert,
Unfortunately, you are stating the time sequence backward.
If you read the explanation letter signed by the whole AMSAT board, the
legal expenses are in 2018-2019. The demand letter came at the end of the
legal process, when the majority of the funds had already been spent. When
they got the demand letter, AMSAT's attorneys relented and the board did
what was demanded in the letter, and Joe resigned (for reasons he has chosen
not to elaborate upon). Michelle and Patrick's blogs are public and you can
read it there, it is clear that there were many attempts to communicate
before the demand was made.
It also is important to note that AMSAT had lawyers directed at Michelle and
Patrick long, long before?they got their own lawyer.
? ? Thanks
? ? Bruce
? ? Thanks
? ? Bruce
On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 6:19 PM Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> To all who claim the legal expenses were a waste of money, consider this:
>
>
>>>>In January 2020, a demand letter arrived at AMSAT from an attorney
representing Directors Thompson and Stoddard.
>
>
> Submitting a demand letter from an attorney is a really big deal. That
legal line was first crossed by the new board members. Apparently, Joe Spier
resigned at this point in order to avoid unfair legal entanglements - and,
as far as I can tell from the few interactions I have had with Joe - he is a
kind person.
>
> Plenty of evidence, plenty of facts - obviously point to AmSat not keeping
up with the times. But that does not justify legal betrayal of existing
board members by new members in an effort to usurp full control of the
board. A more perfect response would have been to do nothing until the
election cycle and hope to replace the board members who may have been
dragging their feet.
>
> My point is this - nobody should be making the argument the legal expenses
were not required. Hearing this from the members who delivered the demand
letter feels insulting on many levels and should stop. Own it - the members
who brought the demand, and their Backer(s), are ultimately responsible for
the costs incurred. Actions have consequences - and side-effects.
>
> Ends do not justify means. There is a right way and a wrong way to move
forward. Trust is more valuable than performance.
>
> The legal expenditures were both Wise and Required. The demand letter sent
by the new board members was neither. Shifting blame and not owning the
side-effects of our actions is less than optimal.
>
> This observation is not a vote in favor or against any member or candidate.
>
> For reference:
https://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2020-July/078239.html
>
> Robert MacHale
> . KE6BLR Ham Radio License
> .?http://www.aprsat.com/predict
> .?http://www.spaceCommunicator.club?
> . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space
Exploration
>
> Silly Joke:?What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi
Cliff!
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
--
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually :-)
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 276
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