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CX2SA > SATDIG 22.07.20 22:36l 1333 Lines 49222 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Is This AMSAT's Future? (Bob Hammond)
2. Re: My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
(Joseph Armbruster)
3. Re: HEO (Bruce Perens)
4. Re: My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to consider.
(Bruce Perens)
5. Fw: HEO (Robert Bankston)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 11:18:56 -0700
From: Bob Hammond <propgrinder@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Is This AMSAT's Future?
Message-ID:
<CAKoB7OojJrBjq3WYxyqYiK6Au1EgV8B7R1tcSfLNf-3aD=5M-g@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I'd like to learn more about microwave ham radio.
Bob W7OTJ
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 10:30 AM W3AB/GEO via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
> Exactomento Zach. I'm a member of a local m/wave club and costs don't seem
> to be a detriment to getting on the air. Lots & lots of cheap commercial
> gear is available. A soldering iron & some parts tweaking & you've got a
> m/wave station.
>
> ?___
> Sent from my two way wrist watch
> 73 de W3AB/GEO?
>
> On Jul 22, 2020, 06:51, at 06:51, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >On 07/22/20 02:23, Clint Bradford via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> >>>> This could very well be. Tech changes over time. IMHO, Hams need to
> >change over time to keep the hobby viable.
> >>
> >> That required station is quite a jump from enjoying LEOs - and
> >getting involved in satellite communications for well under $200,
> >though.
> >
> >There will always be some cost to this hobby, part of which can be
> >mitigated by more home-brewing of equipment. However, if one doesn't
> >want scratch-build the entire system, there are rather inexpensive
> >solutions from commercial components.
> >
> >OZ1BXM has an overview of the 13cm (2.4 GHz) uplink / 3cm (10 GHz)
> >downlink system here:
> >
> >https://oz1bxm.dk/sat/QO100-rig.html
> >
> >Seems like the receive chain is quite simple and cheap. I recently
> >acquired a 10 GHz LNB, new in a box, from eBay for $20. The RTL-SDR is
> >about another $20, and a bias-tee is probably $10, if one can't cobble
> >it together from the junk bin.
> >
> >The transmit path requires a 2.4 GHz radio or converter, which is
> >likely
> >the most expensive part of the whole system.
> >
> >One could argue that this setup pushes new operators toward learning to
> >
> >track and listen before trying to transmit. This is probably a good
> >thing.
> >
> >The 10 GHz information will be useful for GOLF-1's microwave
> >capabilities.
> >
> >--- Zach
> >N0ZGO
> >_______________________________________________
> >Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >Opinions expressed
> >are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> >of AMSAT-NA.
> >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >program!
> >Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 14:39:35 -0400
From: Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster@?????.???>
To: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
Cc: Alan <wa4sca@?????.???>, AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>, Alan
Biddle <APBIDDLE@???????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
consider.
Message-ID:
<CADkz4c_QZK6qkK_xjHR9GRUD7TKm7nko6q0Fa1VAeyfP4huASw@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Bruce,
I was referring to all the "report to members" stuff I saw on LinkedIn
a while back, not election material. I was on LinkedIn one day and I
was absolutely dumbfounded at some of the stuff that was posted.
All 'member organization', or Member Society means is, you have an
organization and you paid a little more money for the membership (from
what I can gather from the bylaws). It doesn't imply any special kind
of relationship. I could join a club tomorrow and we could click the
"Join Now" button, pay the fee and become a 'member organization'
also. Why would you create a member society to get the work of the
organization itself done... that makes Negative sense... Why not
"Just do it" through your own?
What work Couldn't you get done with AMSAT, specifically?
Joseph Armbruster
Joseph Armbruster
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 2:17 PM Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???> wrote:
>
> Joseph,
>
> What I posted on LinkedIn, where I know I have a following of hams, was
the election flyer I also put up at
http://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
>
> Of course I also ran it on Twitter, QRZ, and others have reposted it to
additional venues.
>
> This is election campaign material. It really boggles the mind that people
take exception to election campaign material posted in locations where
members who do not subscribe to the BB might read it. And you consider it
embarrassing.
>
> I submit that this is authoritarian thinking. The very implication to
others that an incumbent is accused of running the organization improperly
must be kept within closed doors and never shown to others. We must suppress
the appearance of dissent and publicly support the authorities.
>
> This follows what I said before about people taking opposition as evil,
unprofessional, etc. Campaigning is a basic part of democracy, and yes it
gets aggressive sometimes.
>
> ORI is an AMSAT member organization which we created because we couldn't
get the work done at AMSAT. If it continues to be the case that we can't get
the work done at AMSAT, obviously we are not going to take that as a
direction to abandon the work. Carrying it out within ORI would be necessary.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 11:03 AM Joseph Armbruster
<josepharmbruster@?????.???> wrote:
>>
>> Bruce,
>>
>> I think your descent into mediocrity assessment is baseless and your
>> statement:"We will work on the issue
>> over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we continue
>> to get the participation and grants that were previously directed
>> toward AMSAT." speaks absolute volumes. It actually gives credence to
>> those that are saying some are coming into the organization to "take
>> it over" amongst other things. It also shows a general lack of
>> knowledge and understanding of all the things AMSAT has been up to and
>> the time / work that it takes. It also tells everyone on the -bb
>> about your loose commitment to the real success of AMSAT, when you're
>> willing to just "go do it with someone else". That's not commitment,
>> that's having one foot out the door. No doubt, this attitude is
>> reflected in your choice of candidates.
>>
>> I (and I think many others on the -bb) are tired of vile blog posts
>> and I am personally, not supportive of seeing LinkedIn posts badgering
>> AMSAT publically... vs taking up issues as professionals within the
>> organization. I am still dumbfounded by the stuff I saw posted on
>> LinkedIn... It shows a general lack of professionalism and in my
>> opinion is likely a symptom of larger, more-substantial interpersonal
>> issues that people are bringing to the table, that likely are the
>> root-cause of a lot of the "doesn't work well with people" stuff
>> that's been stated on here.
>>
>> The term Loose Cannon comes to mind, or, bad apples spoil the bunch.
>>
>> I mean, if you really think the organization is that bad, do yourself
>> a favor and leave it alone. Be the bigger person Bruce, take your
>> team that has a proven track record and run with it. You can be this
>> generations Elon of amateur radio in space! Why let AMSAT slow you
>> down?
>>
>> The constant badgering and harassment of members and directors that
>> actually have a track-record, is beyond me. What AMSAT needs is to
>> maintain the people with a Proven Track Record Of Getting Things Done,
>> not those with a documented track record of whining, complaining and
>> making empty promises without substance.
>>
>> Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer, just got my vote.
>>
>> Joseph Armbruster
>> KJ4JIO (renewed!)
>>
>>
>> Joseph Armbruster
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 1:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB
>> <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>> >
>> > One of my earlier forays into amateur radio policy was to found "No-Code
>> > International" and lobby to get rid of the Morse Code test worldwide. We
>> > appeared at many conferences and I even went to Iceland to lobby their
IARU
>> > vote, which was the same as that of the USA even though I had half of the
>> > hams in the whole country in one room where I was speaking.
>> >
>> > During this period, I expected to be punched out or spat upon by angry
>> > hams. But I was impressed with the civil behavior of hams. Although there
>> > were complaints to ARRL directors that my table was even admitted to the
>> > Division conference, I think only one person cursed me out. And he very
>> > graciously made up after the decision was made.
>> >
>> > Certainly no one ever said it was a "hostile takeover". To treat an
>> > election as that is truly ludicrous.
>> >
>> > If you like the descent into mediocrity that AMSAT has been on for a
>> > decade, by all means vote for the incumbents. We will work on the issue
>> > over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we continue to
>> > get the participation and grants that were previously directed toward
AMSAT.
>> >
>> > But there is an alternative. If you want a way out of AMSAT's decline,
>> > please vote for these candidates:
>> >
>> > Bob McGwier N4HY
>> > Howie DeFelice AB2S
>> > Jeff Johns WE4B
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Bruce
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 7:58 AM Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
>> >
>> > > Michelle,
>> > >
>> > > > Describing me publicly as a ?target? that you want to bomb makes
one of
>> > > us look bad... and it isn?t me.
>> > >
>> > > You are probably one of only two people on this list who could possibly
>> > > twist/spin/distort what I clearly meant into what you claim. Given the
>> > > complete ludicrousness of that, I will just wish you a good and
healthful
>> > > day.
>> > >
>> > > 73,
>> > >
>> > > Alan
>> > > WA4SCA
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:mountain.michelle@?????.????
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:22 AM
>> > > To: APBIDDLE@???????.???? Alan <wa4sca@?????.???>
>> > > Cc: amsat-bb@?????.???
>> > > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
>> > > consider.
>> > >
>> > > Describing me publicly as a ?target? that you want to bomb makes one
of us
>> > > look bad... and it isn?t me.
>> > >
>> > > Violent responses to ordinary questions about financial oversight have
>> > > been the pattern from the majority of the absentee board.
>> > >
>> > > There certainly was smoke. It lead to real fires. We put some of them
out
>> > > without anyone getting bothered.
>> > >
>> > > The voters are the fire department of last resort for a member
society. If
>> > > you are out there, we need your help.
>> > >
>> > > Fewer war-obsessed Directors would result in immediate improvement for
>> > > everyone.
>> > >
>> > > Please vote for McGwier, DeFelice, and Johns.
>> > >
>> > > -mdt
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 05:19 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???
>> > > <mailto:amsat-bb@?????.???> > wrote:
>> > > Michelle,
>> > >
>> > > Thanks for confirming my hypothesis on your tactics and actual
>> > > motivations. A lightning response consisting of a dense smokescreen,
or
>> > > perhaps heavy flack, means I am over the target. :)
>> > >
>> > > 73,
>> > >
>> > > Alan
>> > > WA4SCA
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -------------------------------------
>> > > You can fool some of the people all of the time,
>> > > all of the people some of the time, and that is usually sufficient.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > <-----Original Message-----
>> > > <From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:mountain.michelle@?????.??? <mailto:
>> > > mountain.michelle@?????.???> ]
>> > > <Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:07 AM
>> > > <To: APBIDDLE@???????.??? <mailto:APBIDDLE@???????.???> ; Alan <
>> > > wa4sca@?????.??? <mailto:wa4sca@?????.???> >
>> > > <Cc: amsat-bb@?????.??? <mailto:amsat-bb@?????.???>
>> > > <Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
>> > > consider.
>> > > <
>> > > <That is true.
>> > > <
>> > > <It?s a classic hostile takeover when the doors are locked against a
>> > > minority of the Directors,
>> > > <and when company assets are used for personal reasons.
>> > > <
>> > > <I add that secretly hiring lawyers to harass and obstruct elected
leaders
>> > > isn?t a hostile
>> > > <takeover. It?s just plain hostile.
>> > > <
>> > > <Lying about it and trying to cover it up is offensive.
>> > > <
>> > > <Unlike other things that we do, this isn?t rocket science.
>> > > <
>> > > <A stagnant board majority that freaks out and refuses to meet is not
an
>> > > asset to the
>> > > <corporation.
>> > > <
>> > > <Thanks to Alan for highlighting this aspect.
>> > > <
>> > > <-Michelle W5NYV
>> > > <
>> > > <On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 03:43 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???
>> > > <mailto:amsat-bb@?????.???> <mailto:amsat- <mailto:amsat->
>> > > <bb@?????.??? <mailto:bb@?????.???> > > wrote:
>> > > <
>> > > <
>> > > < John,
>> > > <
>> > > < It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile
>> > > takeover rather
>> > > < than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and ideology
>> > > rather than
>> > > < money. That is important when understanding the tools being
used,
>> > > and in
>> > > < looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are somewhat
>> > > different in
>> > > < the two cases.
>> > > <
>> > > < 73,
>> > > <
>> > > < Alan
>> > > < WA4SCA
>> > > <
>> > > <
>> > > <
>> > > <
>> > > < <-----Original Message-----
>> > > < <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@?????.??? <mailto:
>> > > amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???> <mailto:amsat-bb- <mailto:amsat-bb->
>> > > <bounces@?????.??? <mailto:bounces@?????.???> > ] On Behalf Of
john--- via
>> > > < <AMSAT-BB
>> > > < <Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM
>> > > < <To: amsat-bb@?????.??? <mailto:amsat-bb@?????.???> <mailto:
>> > > amsat-bb@?????.??? <mailto:amsat-bb@?????.???> >
>> > > < <Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
>> > > consider.
>> > > < <
>> > > < <One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago, "What is
>> > > going on
>> > > < <with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war. And
it is
>> > > < <nasty and it's tearing us apart.
>> > > < <
>> > > < <With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is hard to
>> > > determine
>> > > < <the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to
have any
>> > > < <chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real issues
>> > > becomes
>> > > < <clear.
>> > > < <
>> > > < <The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago when
>> > > members
>> > > < <started talking about the ballots they were receiving in the
mail.
>> > > < <Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem
will
>> > > go away.
>> > > < < Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and Michelle
>> > > are not
>> > > < <on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the
>> > > election is
>> > > < <over.
>> > > < <
>> > > < <My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived yesterday.
And
>> > > so did
>> > > < <the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I
read the
>> > > < <statements and have been reading the candidate's comments on
other
>> > > < <social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked about
some
>> > > of
>> > > < <the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular Board
>> > > < <meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the third
vote
>> > > < <required to demand General Board meetings be held regularly!
>> > > That's
>> > > < <about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements. The
same
>> > > person
>> > > < <promised to do some other things as well if elected; some
helpful
>> > > and
>> > > < <some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them..
>> > > < <
>> > > < <A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote
for. He
>> > > < <documented everyone's credentials, experience, past efforts
with
>> > > AMSAT
>> > > < <along with comments about personal interactions, if any. Those
>> > > are good
>> > > < <things to consider. But what about the future? What issues
does
>> > > the
>> > > < <candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to deal
with
>> > > them?
>> > > < <
>> > > < <To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way to
>> > > bring our
>> > > < <Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an
>> > > agreement
>> > > < <with all parties that will restore civility and respect for
all
>> > > members,
>> > > < <a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is
>> > > suggesting
>> > > < <them, as much transparency as the law permits along with
fiscal
>> > > < <responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've
>> > > pondered how
>> > > < <to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of
working.
>> > > But
>> > > < <I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I
will
>> > > defer to
>> > > < <the candidates to come up with their own ideas.
>> > > < <
>> > > < <I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail a
plan
>> > > to
>> > > < <deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are
things that
>> > > < <must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high
school
>> > > < <education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you
should be
>> > > able
>> > > < <to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the
>> > > candidates with
>> > > < <the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting
their
>> > > votes.
>> > > < < Let's see what happens!
>> > > < <
>> > > < <73, John K8YSE
>> > > < <_______________________________________________
>> > > < <Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.??? <mailto:AMSAT-BB@?????.???>
<mailto:
>> > > AMSAT-BB@?????.??? <mailto:AMSAT-BB@?????.???> > . AMSAT-NA
>> > > <makes this open forum available
>> > > < <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
membership.
>> > > Opinions
>> > > < expressed
>> > > < <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official
>> > > views of
>> > > < AMSAT-NA.
>> > > < <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
satellite
>> > > program!
>> > > < <Subscription settings:
>> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > > <
>> > > < _______________________________________________
>> > > < Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.??? <mailto:AMSAT-BB@?????.???>
<mailto:
>> > > AMSAT-BB@?????.??? <mailto:AMSAT-BB@?????.???> > . AMSAT-NA
>> > > <makes this open forum available
>> > > < to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
membership.
>> > > Opinions
>> > > <expressed
>> > > < are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>> > > views of AMSAT-NA.
>> > > < Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
satellite
>> > > program!
>> > > < Subscription settings:
>> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > > <
>> > > <
>> > > <--
>> > > <
>> > > <-Michelle W5NYV
>> > > <
>> > > <
>> > > <"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
>> > > <
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.??? <mailto:AMSAT-BB@?????.???> . AMSAT-NA
makes
>> > > this open forum available
>> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
>> > > expressed
>> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
>> > > AMSAT-NA.
>> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
>> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > > --
>> > > -Michelle W5NYV
>> > > "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
>> > > expressed
>> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
>> > > AMSAT-NA.
>> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
>> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 11:40:05 -0700
From: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
To: amsat-bb@??????.???
Cc: n4laz@?????.???? AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] HEO
Message-ID:
<CAK2MWOtuaAUJOAVcQEie=r+yJXOLk3Rf2hR3cFEK7U9ChU+mQQ@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hi Andrew and Company,
I am all for having future satellites be accessible with the equipment that
hams have today.
What I am lobbying for is similar to what hams went through when we
transitioned from spark to CW (very heavily opposed at the time), AM voice
to SSB, and I am old enough to remember opposition to repeaters (including
at FCC) and starting with a Technician license when there was a predominant
perception that we were not "real hams".
In addition to easy access we must provide a path for hams to realize
benefits of improved technology, and there is always a chicken-and-egg
problem in achieving this. Few hams have microwave satellite equipment in
our hemisphere because we don't offer them a good microwave satellite yet.
The case is different in Europe and Africa.
I think you're confused about why we use microwave. Number one is
bandwidth, necessary for digital modes such as teleconference. And although
it is true that business is interested in microwave spectrum, throughout
our history we have had to move to higher frequencies in order to have
living room in which to operate. The HF bands which we still have were
considered uselessly high frequencies when we got them.
Thanks
Bruce
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 11:08 AM Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via
AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> Hi Andrew!
>
> I am all for a variety of satellites. When we had AO-51 in the 2000s, I
> found the pieces to work its V/S FM repeater as I started working
> satellites. Doppler at 2.4 GHz made tuning those downlinks an almost
> constant thing on those passes, but it was fun. We have the sort of
> transponder you mentioned in your post with AO-92's L/V FM repeater
> right now. We are only permitted to use the 1.2 GHz band for satellite
> uplinks, not downlinks.
>
> Many satellite operators now have the 1.2 GHz uplink capability with
> the IC-9700, but the only time AO-92 L/V is available appears to be
> inconvenient for many who might want to try it right now (Tuesday
> evenings and Wednesday mornings in North America). We were told that
> the switch from a Sunday UTC activation (Saturday nights and Sunday
> mornings in North America) last year was not going to be a permanent
> change. I think there would be more new call signs heard on AO-92 L/V
> with those IC-9700s and other radios, if that mode was available at a
> more convenient time for those who have work or school commitments
> during the week. It isn't like we lack V/U or U/V FM satellites right
> now.
>
> 73!
>
>
>
>
>
> Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> Twitter: @?????? or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 4:46 PM Andrew Lazenby via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> > Hello EveryoneI recently joined Amsat because I felt like a bit of a
> > hypocrite for complaining about things, and not doing my part to change
> > them. One thing that does bug me is the HEO satellites having microwave
> > uplinks and downlinks. I think that will greatly limit the clientele that
> > will be able to use these.
> > I have head many older hams gripe about LEO satellites and reflect back
> > on how back in the day there would be passes up for hours! Many of them
> > where using drifty transverters with terrible noise figures, turning
> > antennas with tv rotators and no preamp! The argument that I have heard
> to
> > move to mircowave uplinks and downlinks is lower noise, but if it worked
> > with them back then, then what's changed?
> > Something else to consider is that the microwave spectrum is under fire
> > from commercial interest more and more. Why not consider like a U/L or
> L/U
> > transponder? That would bring the envelope a little closer to where the
> > average ham could operate with out investing in some serious equipment,
> > while keeping the dream of HEO alive for the large percentage of
> satellite
> > operators, and not just a handful?
> > Forgive me if Im wrong, but I just wanted to put my 2 cents in the pot.
> If
> > we all would learn to work together as much as we fuss we would be making
> > some tracks. Thanks everyone, Andrew N4LAZ
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 11:59:00 -0700
From: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
To: Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster@?????.???>
Cc: Alan <wa4sca@?????.???>, AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>, Alan
Biddle <APBIDDLE@???????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
consider.
Message-ID:
<CAK2MWOu6pgy_igGLu8rNZaAriqwU5DfvciHgTDew4uMo-wcSdw@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Joseph,
I went through my LinkedIn activity, and couldn't find what you were
talking about. It is however true that I have publicly been very critical
of AMSAT management, a crime I share with three candidates and apparently
something that can subject you to legal action!
As you know, I was recently sued for my speech, in a classic SLAPP lawsuit,
and I stuck with the case rather than bowing to intimidation and removing
my speech from the internet. This ended with the plaintiff paying $300,000
for my defense. I take exception to AMSAT's legal action against Michelle
in Patrick for their speech, and your making what seem to be anti-speech
appeals here. I don't know what posting you are objecting to, or even who
wrote it. But it sounds like an attempt to suppress speech to me.
ORI was formed to carry on the Phase 4 Ground project. It's mission has
expanded considerably since then.
Thanks
Bruce
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 11:38 AM Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster@?????.???>
wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> I was referring to all the "report to members" stuff I saw on LinkedIn
> a while back, not election material. I was on LinkedIn one day and I
> was absolutely dumbfounded at some of the stuff that was posted.
>
> All 'member organization', or Member Society means is, you have an
> organization and you paid a little more money for the membership (from
> what I can gather from the bylaws). It doesn't imply any special kind
> of relationship. I could join a club tomorrow and we could click the
> "Join Now" button, pay the fee and become a 'member organization'
> also. Why would you create a member society to get the work of the
> organization itself done... that makes Negative sense... Why not
> "Just do it" through your own?
>
> What work Couldn't you get done with AMSAT, specifically?
>
> Joseph Armbruster
>
>
>
> Joseph Armbruster
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 2:17 PM Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???> wrote:
> >
> > Joseph,
> >
> > What I posted on LinkedIn, where I know I have a following of hams, was
> the election flyer I also put up at
> http://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
> >
> > Of course I also ran it on Twitter, QRZ, and others have reposted it to
> additional venues.
> >
> > This is election campaign material. It really boggles the mind that
> people take exception to election campaign material posted in locations
> where members who do not subscribe to the BB might read it. And you
> consider it embarrassing.
> >
> > I submit that this is authoritarian thinking. The very implication to
> others that an incumbent is accused of running the organization improperly
> must be kept within closed doors and never shown to others. We must
> suppress the appearance of dissent and publicly support the authorities.
> >
> > This follows what I said before about people taking opposition as evil,
> unprofessional, etc. Campaigning is a basic part of democracy, and yes it
> gets aggressive sometimes.
> >
> > ORI is an AMSAT member organization which we created because we couldn't
> get the work done at AMSAT. If it continues to be the case that we can't
> get the work done at AMSAT, obviously we are not going to take that as a
> direction to abandon the work. Carrying it out within ORI would be
> necessary.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 11:03 AM Joseph Armbruster <
> josepharmbruster@?????.???> wrote:
> >>
> >> Bruce,
> >>
> >> I think your descent into mediocrity assessment is baseless and your
> >> statement:"We will work on the issue
> >> over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we continue
> >> to get the participation and grants that were previously directed
> >> toward AMSAT." speaks absolute volumes. It actually gives credence to
> >> those that are saying some are coming into the organization to "take
> >> it over" amongst other things. It also shows a general lack of
> >> knowledge and understanding of all the things AMSAT has been up to and
> >> the time / work that it takes. It also tells everyone on the -bb
> >> about your loose commitment to the real success of AMSAT, when you're
> >> willing to just "go do it with someone else". That's not commitment,
> >> that's having one foot out the door. No doubt, this attitude is
> >> reflected in your choice of candidates.
> >>
> >> I (and I think many others on the -bb) are tired of vile blog posts
> >> and I am personally, not supportive of seeing LinkedIn posts badgering
> >> AMSAT publically... vs taking up issues as professionals within the
> >> organization. I am still dumbfounded by the stuff I saw posted on
> >> LinkedIn... It shows a general lack of professionalism and in my
> >> opinion is likely a symptom of larger, more-substantial interpersonal
> >> issues that people are bringing to the table, that likely are the
> >> root-cause of a lot of the "doesn't work well with people" stuff
> >> that's been stated on here.
> >>
> >> The term Loose Cannon comes to mind, or, bad apples spoil the bunch.
> >>
> >> I mean, if you really think the organization is that bad, do yourself
> >> a favor and leave it alone. Be the bigger person Bruce, take your
> >> team that has a proven track record and run with it. You can be this
> >> generations Elon of amateur radio in space! Why let AMSAT slow you
> >> down?
> >>
> >> The constant badgering and harassment of members and directors that
> >> actually have a track-record, is beyond me. What AMSAT needs is to
> >> maintain the people with a Proven Track Record Of Getting Things Done,
> >> not those with a documented track record of whining, complaining and
> >> making empty promises without substance.
> >>
> >> Hammond, Paige, Stoetzer, just got my vote.
> >>
> >> Joseph Armbruster
> >> KJ4JIO (renewed!)
> >>
> >>
> >> Joseph Armbruster
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 1:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB
> >> <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > One of my earlier forays into amateur radio policy was to found
> "No-Code
> >> > International" and lobby to get rid of the Morse Code test worldwide.
> We
> >> > appeared at many conferences and I even went to Iceland to lobby
> their IARU
> >> > vote, which was the same as that of the USA even though I had half of
> the
> >> > hams in the whole country in one room where I was speaking.
> >> >
> >> > During this period, I expected to be punched out or spat upon by angry
> >> > hams. But I was impressed with the civil behavior of hams. Although
> there
> >> > were complaints to ARRL directors that my table was even admitted to
> the
> >> > Division conference, I think only one person cursed me out. And he
> very
> >> > graciously made up after the decision was made.
> >> >
> >> > Certainly no one ever said it was a "hostile takeover". To treat an
> >> > election as that is truly ludicrous.
> >> >
> >> > If you like the descent into mediocrity that AMSAT has been on for a
> >> > decade, by all means vote for the incumbents. We will work on the
> issue
> >> > over at ORI, instead of AMSAT, and don't be surprised when we
> continue to
> >> > get the participation and grants that were previously directed toward
> AMSAT.
> >> >
> >> > But there is an alternative. If you want a way out of AMSAT's decline,
> >> > please vote for these candidates:
> >> >
> >> > Bob McGwier N4HY
> >> > Howie DeFelice AB2S
> >> > Jeff Johns WE4B
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> >
> >> > Bruce
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 7:58 AM Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Michelle,
> >> > >
> >> > > > Describing me publicly as a ?target? that you want to bomb makes
> one of
> >> > > us look bad... and it isn?t me.
> >> > >
> >> > > You are probably one of only two people on this list who could
> possibly
> >> > > twist/spin/distort what I clearly meant into what you claim. Given
> the
> >> > > complete ludicrousness of that, I will just wish you a good and
> healthful
> >> > > day.
> >> > >
> >> > > 73,
> >> > >
> >> > > Alan
> >> > > WA4SCA
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:mountain.michelle@?????.????
> >> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:22 AM
> >> > > To: APBIDDLE@???????.???? Alan <wa4sca@?????.???>
> >> > > Cc: amsat-bb@?????.???
> >> > > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
> >> > > consider.
> >> > >
> >> > > Describing me publicly as a ?target? that you want to bomb makes
> one of us
> >> > > look bad... and it isn?t me.
> >> > >
> >> > > Violent responses to ordinary questions about financial oversight
> have
> >> > > been the pattern from the majority of the absentee board.
> >> > >
> >> > > There certainly was smoke. It lead to real fires. We put some of
> them out
> >> > > without anyone getting bothered.
> >> > >
> >> > > The voters are the fire department of last resort for a member
> society. If
> >> > > you are out there, we need your help.
> >> > >
> >> > > Fewer war-obsessed Directors would result in immediate improvement
> for
> >> > > everyone.
> >> > >
> >> > > Please vote for McGwier, DeFelice, and Johns.
> >> > >
> >> > > -mdt
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 05:19 Alan via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???
> >> > > <mailto:amsat-bb@?????.???> > wrote:
> >> > > Michelle,
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks for confirming my hypothesis on your tactics and actual
> >> > > motivations. A lightning response consisting of a dense
> smokescreen, or
> >> > > perhaps heavy flack, means I am over the target. :)
> >> > >
> >> > > 73,
> >> > >
> >> > > Alan
> >> > > WA4SCA
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > -------------------------------------
> >> > > You can fool some of the people all of the time,
> >> > > all of the people some of the time, and that is usually sufficient.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > <-----Original Message-----
> >> > > <From: Michelle Thompson [mailto:mountain.michelle@?????.???
> <mailto:
> >> > > mountain.michelle@?????.???> ]
> >> > > <Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:07 AM
> >> > > <To: APBIDDLE@???????.??? <mailto:APBIDDLE@???????.???> ; Alan <
> >> > > wa4sca@?????.??? <mailto:wa4sca@?????.???> >
> >> > > <Cc: amsat-bb@?????.??? <mailto:amsat-bb@?????.???>
> >> > > <Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what? Something to
> >> > > consider.
> >> > > <
> >> > > <That is true.
> >> > > <
> >> > > <It?s a classic hostile takeover when the doors are locked against a
> >> > > minority of the Directors,
> >> > > <and when company assets are used for personal reasons.
> >> > > <
> >> > > <I add that secretly hiring lawyers to harass and obstruct elected
> leaders
> >> > > isn?t a hostile
> >> > > <takeover. It?s just plain hostile.
> >> > > <
> >> > > <Lying about it and trying to cover it up is offensive.
> >> > > <
> >> > > <Unlike other things that we do, this isn?t rocket science.
> >> > > <
> >> > > <A stagnant board majority that freaks out and refuses to meet is
> not an
> >> > > asset to the
> >> > > <corporation.
> >> > > <
> >> > > <Thanks to Alan for highlighting this aspect.
> >> > > <
> >> > > <-Michelle W5NYV
> >> > > <
> >> > > <On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 03:43 Alan via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???
> >> > > <mailto:amsat-bb@?????.???> <mailto:amsat- <mailto:amsat->
> >> > > <bb@?????.??? <mailto:bb@?????.???> > > wrote:
> >> > > <
> >> > > <
> >> > > < John,
> >> > > <
> >> > > < It is more accurate to think of it as an attempted hostile
> >> > > takeover rather
> >> > > < than a civil war, even though it is driven by ego and
> ideology
> >> > > rather than
> >> > > < money. That is important when understanding the tools being
> used,
> >> > > and in
> >> > > < looking at the range of possible resolutions. They are
> somewhat
> >> > > different in
> >> > > < the two cases.
> >> > > <
> >> > > < 73,
> >> > > <
> >> > > < Alan
> >> > > < WA4SCA
> >> > > <
> >> > > <
> >> > > <
> >> > > <
> >> > > < <-----Original Message-----
> >> > > < <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@?????.??? <mailto:
> >> > > amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???> <mailto:amsat-bb- <mailto:amsat-bb->
> >> > > <bounces@?????.??? <mailto:bounces@?????.???> > ] On Behalf Of
> john--- via
> >> > > < <AMSAT-BB
> >> > > < <Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:36 PM
> >> > > < <To: amsat-bb@?????.??? <mailto:amsat-bb@?????.???>
> <mailto:
> >> > > amsat-bb@?????.??? <mailto:amsat-bb@?????.???> >
> >> > > < <Subject: [amsat-bb] My Ballot arrived - Now what?
> Something to
> >> > > consider.
> >> > > < <
> >> > > < <One of my ham radio friends asked me a few weeks ago,
> "What is
> >> > > going on
> >> > > < <with AMSAT?" It's nothing short of an all out civil war.
> And it is
> >> > > < <nasty and it's tearing us apart.
> >> > > < <
> >> > > < <With so many posts and so many twists and turns, it is
> hard to
> >> > > determine
> >> > > < <the root cause of the War. You have to stand way back to
> have any
> >> > > < <chance of finding out. If you take the time, the real
> issues
> >> > > becomes
> >> > > < <clear.
> >> > > < <
> >> > > < <The War on the amsat-bb seemed to subside a few days ago
> when
> >> > > members
> >> > > < <started talking about the ballots they were receiving in
> the mail.
> >> > > < <Maybe the thought was, if I just cast my vote, the problem
> will
> >> > > go away.
> >> > > < < Nothing could be farther from the truth. Patrick and
> Michelle
> >> > > are not
> >> > > < <on the ballot and they will still be on the Board after the
> >> > > election is
> >> > > < <over.
> >> > > < <
> >> > > < <My ballot and the candidate's statements arrived
> yesterday. And
> >> > > so did
> >> > > < <the oversize postcard sent out by 3 of the candidates. I
> read the
> >> > > < <statements and have been reading the candidate's comments
> on other
> >> > > < <social media platforms. Some of the candidates talked
> about some
> >> > > of
> >> > > < <the War issues. Some said they would like to see regular
> Board
> >> > > < <meetings. One candidate posted that he would cast the
> third vote
> >> > > < <required to demand General Board meetings be held
> regularly!
> >> > > That's
> >> > > < <about as bold as it gets in the candidate's statements.
> The same
> >> > > person
> >> > > < <promised to do some other things as well if elected; some
> helpful
> >> > > and
> >> > > < <some not, in my opinion. But at least he said them..
> >> > > < <
> >> > > < <A while back, a member made a post about who he would vote
> for. He
> >> > > < <documented everyone's credentials, experience, past
> efforts with
> >> > > AMSAT
> >> > > < <along with comments about personal interactions, if any.
> Those
> >> > > are good
> >> > > < <things to consider. But what about the future? What issues
> does
> >> > > the
> >> > > < <candidate deem important and how does he or she plan to
> deal with
> >> > > them?
> >> > > < <
> >> > > < <To me. the most important issue for AMSAT is to find a way
> to
> >> > > bring our
> >> > > < <Civil War to an end. And that would include negotiating an
> >> > > agreement
> >> > > < <with all parties that will restore civility and respect
> for all
> >> > > members,
> >> > > < <a culture that is open to all ideas regardless of who is
> >> > > suggesting
> >> > > < <them, as much transparency as the law permits along with
> fiscal
> >> > > < <responsibility and accountability. For the past week I've
> >> > > pondered how
> >> > > < <to do this and came up with a plan that has a chance of
> working.
> >> > > But
> >> > > < <I'm not running for a Board position (and never will) so I
> will
> >> > > defer to
> >> > > < <the candidates to come up with their own ideas.
> >> > > < <
> >> > > < <I challenge each candidate to address the issue and detail
> a plan
> >> > > to
> >> > > < <deal with it. Forget the general statements. There are
> things that
> >> > > < <must happen for the War to end. And if someone with a high
> school
> >> > > < <education and few accomplishments can do it, all of you
> should be
> >> > > able
> >> > > < <to solve this problem with ease. My vote will go to the
> >> > > candidates with
> >> > > < <the best plans. I urge others to wait a bit before casting
> their
> >> > > votes.
> >> > > < < Let's see what happens!
> >> > > < <
> >> > > < <73, John K8YSE
> >> > > < <_______________________________________________
> >> > > < <Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.??? <mailto:AMSAT-BB@?????.???>
> <mailto:
> >> > > AMSAT-BB@?????.??? <mailto:AMSAT-BB@?????.???> > . AMSAT-NA
> >> > > <makes this open forum available
> >> > > < <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
> membership.
> >> > > Opinions
> >> > > < expressed
> >> > > < <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
> official
> >> > > views of
> >> > > < AMSAT-NA.
> >> > > < <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
> satellite
> >> > > program!
> >> > > < <Subscription settings:
> >> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >> > > <
> >> > > < _______________________________________________
> >> > > < Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.??? <mailto:AMSAT-BB@?????.???>
> <mailto:
> >> > > AMSAT-BB@?????.??? <mailto:AMSAT-BB@?????.???> > . AMSAT-NA
> >> > > <makes this open forum available
> >> > > < to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
> membership.
> >> > > Opinions
> >> > > <expressed
> >> > > < are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
> official
> >> > > views of AMSAT-NA.
> >> > > < Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
> satellite
> >> > > program!
> >> > > < Subscription settings:
> >> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >> > > <
> >> > > <
> >> > > <--
> >> > > <
> >> > > <-Michelle W5NYV
> >> > > <
> >> > > <
> >> > > <"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
> >> > > <
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.??? <mailto:AMSAT-BB@?????.???> . AMSAT-NA
> makes
> >> > > this open forum available
> >> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> >> > > expressed
> >> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of
> >> > > AMSAT-NA.
> >> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> > > Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >> > > --
> >> > > -Michelle W5NYV
> >> > > "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> >> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> >> > > expressed
> >> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of
> >> > > AMSAT-NA.
> >> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> > > Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >> > >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> >> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
> >> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> > Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 19:18:30 +0000 (UTC)
From: Robert Bankston <ke4al@?????.???>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Fw: HEO
Message-ID: <171357819.5674704.1595445510194@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Andrew,
The great thing about AMSAT's GOLF program is the flexible capabilities of
its communications payload.? Providing options make us more inclusive,
rather than forcing you to use a specific band or mode.
??
GOLF-Tee will have a V/u transponder and an SDR-based? experimental package
to allow a 1 Mbps downlink in the 10 GHz band.
??
https://www.amsat.org/greater-orbit-larger-footprint-an-introduction-to-the-am
sat-golf-program/
??
I know you are already V/u capable, so that leaves only the 10GHz downlink
??
38BDU is absolutely correct.? TV LNBs are a cheap entry point to receive
X-band.? Unfortunately, U.S. satellite TV frequencies are different then the
rest of the World, so we have more of a challenge.? We will have to purchase
from overseas or find something locally.
??
DirectTV's International World products look promising.? Their DTV36LNB is
capable of 10GHz RX, using a 436 MHz IF.? The LNB is running about $10 USD
and a companion 36" dish for $60.
??
QO-100 has proven that Hams will always rise up and share or offer
affordable communication alternatives.? If there is a cheaper and better way
of doing it, we will collectively find a way to do it.
??
Robert, KE4AL
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 290
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