| |
CX2SA > SATDIG 28.07.20 00:35l 852 Lines 34999 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : AMSATBB15305
Read: GUEST
Subj: AMSAT-BB-digest V15 305
Path: IW8PGT<IZ3LSV<DB0ERF<DB0RES<ON0AR<OZ5BBS<CX2SA
Sent: 200727/2230Z @:CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM #:36163 [Salto] FBB7.00e $:AMSATBB15305
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020 (H. Stephen Nipper)
2. Re: Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020 (Bruce Perens)
3. Re: Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020 (Joseph Armbruster)
4. Sorry to Leave...Let Me Know When the BS is Done (Dino Papas)
5. Re: Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020 (Bruce Perens)
6. Re: Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020 (KA9QJG)
7. Re: Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020 (Joseph Armbruster)
8. Re: Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020 (Zach Metzinger)
9. Re: Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020 (Bruce Perens)
10. Re: Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020 (GEO Badger)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 13:27:12 -0600
From: "H. Stephen Nipper" <stephennipper@?????.???>
To: Greg <almetco@???????.???>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
Message-ID:
<CAPf7+3oWKv_ZYskYZRyHeNYy9onO46Fu7r4c8O09D5j=yoaj4A@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Patrick and Michelle, you got my attention. I am forwarding a check today
for the legal defense fund.
Stephen Nipper
N7DJX
Boise Idaho
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 12:59 PM Greg via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
> Joseph,
>
> Agree?.
>
> The optics of their defense saying they are making AMSAT better just isn?t
> there. Why? Its a volunteer organization, funded by grants, dues and
> volunteer labor. It is not the C-suite or BOD of an S and P 100. Firing
> lawyer letters back and forth is an ego contest in their best interests,
> not the organizations. That includes both sides.
>
> Greg
> N3MVF
>
>
>
> On Jul 27, 2020, at 2:42 PM, Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> Patrick,
>
> I am an AMSAT Life Member and i'm just going to ask you, can you
> please step down from being an AMSAT director? It's obviously not
> working out well for you (and others). I mean, we can all see why
> AMSAT is blowing money on attorneys now.... This is a concrete reason
> to NOT to vote for anyone that you or Michelle Thompson recommend.
> Spamming the BB with a letter like this, is highly unprofessional and
> does not bring you much credibility in my book. These are the kinds
> of matters that professionals resolve privately. By sending this to
> the BB, I can only assume that all you and Michelle want attention.
>
> Well, congratulations for possibly leading to more AMSAT funds being
> blown on useless legal nonsense, instead of actual satellite work.
> This is outstanding, officer / director work for the organization and
> I personally do NOT thank you for it.
>
> Honestly though, this is just getting stupid. Just because people are
> voted onto a board or into a position of office, doesn't mean that the
> people voted in are any good for the job or working with the
> organization. Or... even know how to work well with others. In any
> election, there are masses of uninformed voters and/or individuals
> that run under false-pretenses. Just look at the last Florida
> gubernatorial election and where Andrew Gillum ended up (naked, asleep
> in his own vomit, with an escort overdosed on meth)... Gooooooooo,
> democracy.
>
> The directors that are putting AMSAT through this should all step
> down, immediately. Just because you were duly elected, doesn't mean
> you are doing a good job or representing AMSAT well (All attempts at
> virtuosity aside). Do us all a favor, step down from your positions
> please. This is the best service you can offer AMSAT.
>
> Thank You,
> Joseph Armbruster
> KJ4JIO
>
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 1:02 PM Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via
> AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> > Hi.
> >
> > The following is the text of a letter sent on behalf of Michelle
> > Thompson W5NYV and me to AMSAT President Clayton Coleman W5PFG,
> > along with everyone who co-signed Clayton's letter of 10 July 2020.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> > http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> > Twitter: @?????? or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
> >
> >
> >
> > *********************************
> > Text of forwarded letter is below
> > *********************************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > July 27, 2020
> >
> > AMSAT Board Members
> > Clayton Coleman, President
> >
> >
> > Dear Sirs and Madam:
> >
> > I am writing in my capacity as counsel to Michelle Thompson and Patrick
> > Stoddard regarding the letter to members entitled ?AMSAT Leadership
> > Explains 2018-2020 Legal Expenses? posted on July 10, 2020 (?Letter?).
> > Through the course of my representation of my clients, I know that
> > information included in this letter is patently false and defamatory
> > and has resulted in reputational harm to Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard.
> > On behalf of my clients, I demand that appropriate corrective action be
> > taken to address these falsehoods and prevent further harm to their
> > reputations.
> >
> > The most egregious falsehood, among several, is the statement that
> > AMSAT is ?under attack? by my clients. Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard
> > have consistently worked to improve AMSAT ? and have done nothing to
> > attack or undermine the organization they support. It is true that my
> > clients have worked diligently to evaluate the mission, activities,
> > finances, and procedures of AMSAT. Specifically, they have taken steps
> > to increase the financial transparency of AMSAT, enforce the provisions
> > of its existing bylaws, and obtain access to corporate and financial
> > documents. They have done all of this work as volunteers, deeply
> > invested in the well-being and success of AMSAT as an organization.
> > While I understand that certain AMSAT officials may interpret my
> > clients? actions to be critical of their personal actions, it is simply
> > not true that AMSAT as an organization is ?under attack.? The broad
> > dissemination of a statement to the contrary is false, harms Ms.
> > Thompson?s and Mr. Stoddard?s ability to serve AMSAT and calls into
> > question their integrity.
> >
> > As you know, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard were improperly denied
> > access to AMSAT?s corporate records. They had to retain my firm just to
> > be able to carry out their corporate responsibilities as Directors.
> > They now are questioning the propriety of the legal expenditures as
> > they have not been given any evidence that these expenses were ever
> > approved by board action, much less in advance of the engagement, as is
> > required by Article II, Section 1 of AMSAT?s bylaws. One of the
> > principal fiduciary responsibilities of all board members is to obey
> > the provisions of the organization?s governing documents. Rather than
> > ?disrupt and possibly defame? or ?publicly attack the integrity and
> > honor? of AMSAT Officers and Directors, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard
> > have merely been trying to review whether the AMSAT board has met this
> > important fiduciary obligation.
> >
> > You noted, ?[t]he only powers that Directors have is when the Board is
> > in session and Board members make their vote? ? and yet, we are not
> > aware of any Board meeting in which this Letter was discussed. The fact
> > that five of the current Directors have decided to sign this letter
> > without conferring as a Board is good evidence that Directors may
> > choose to exercise his or her individual oversight role in the absence
> > of a Board meeting.
> >
> > In conclusion, my clients are doing their best to improve financial
> > transparency and good governance in AMSAT. We agree that ?a poisonous
> > atmosphere makes it impossible for good ideas to be heard? and my
> > clients both wish to create instead an ?atmosphere of collaboration and
> > common purpose.? They ran on a reform platform and were duly elected by
> > the members to carry out that mandate.
> >
> > With this letter, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Stoddard formally request that
> > the Letter be retracted and removed from AMSAT?s public website.
> > Alternatively, the Letter should, in consultation with my clients, be
> > corrected to accurately reflect the reality of their interactions with
> > AMSAT and its Board. Given that the unfounded accusations against my
> > clients harm their reputation and question their integrity, we request
> > action be taken no later than ten (10) days after the receipt of this
> > demand.
> >
> > We look forward to your prompt attention to this matter.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Carolyn A. Klamp, Counsel
> >
> >
> > cc: Dr. Tom Clark
> > Keith Baker,
> > Jerry Buxton,
> > Dr. Mark Hammond,
> > Paul Stoetzer,
> > Martha Saragovitz,
> > Robert Bankston,
> > Drew Glasbrenner,
> > Bruce Paige
> > Michelle Thompson
> > Patrick Stoddard
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
--
Stephen Nipper
Boise, Idaho
N7DJX
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 12:32:01 -0700
From: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
To: Greg <almetco@???????.???>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
Message-ID:
<CAK2MWOsHszZMroqS=-kysfjxqpiaL-EK-qkK4NBOD1qUa8JL=Q@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Why do I have to remind you that by the incumbent board's own written
admission, they hired lawyers against Michelle and Patrick long before
Michelle and Patrick saw the need to hire an attorney.
Why should Patrick and Michelle step down rather than fight a board that -
in my direct experience - repeatedly can't follow its own bylaws and has
shown a complete inability to handle opposition in a democratic manner?
Why shouldn't we be calling for the incumbents to step down?
Bruce Perens K6BP
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 15:44:11 -0400
From: Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster@?????.???>
To: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
Message-ID:
<CADkz4c8nFpdLBWaWY3wg3-peuO+Og+24RCGYVRkJNZm_Ewo7vQ@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Bruce,
Can you start your own amateur space organization? And, take all the
people that want to follow with you. That would honestly be better
for everyone.
This is all un-necessary, un-professional and Actually Avoidable.
That's the worst part. And those who do not want to avoid this
nonsense are going to propagate it, making everyone in a good
organization suffer.
Thanks,
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 3:32 PM Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???> wrote:
>
> Why do I have to remind you that by the incumbent board's own written
admission, they hired lawyers against Michelle and Patrick long before
Michelle and Patrick saw the need to hire an attorney.
>
> Why should Patrick and Michelle step down rather than fight a board that -
in my direct experience - repeatedly can't follow its own bylaws and has
shown a complete inability to handle opposition in a democratic manner?
>
> Why shouldn't we be calling for the incumbents to step down?
>
> Bruce Perens K6BP
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 15:46:10 -0400
From: Dino Papas <kl0s@???.???>
To: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Sorry to Leave...Let Me Know When the BS is Done
Message-ID: <96D1E3B7-59D2-4E14-802C-8E906EA4678A@???.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Can someone let me know when all the political diatribe is done with so I
can resubscribe to the mail list and just hear about satellites?
TNX!
Dino KL?S
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 13:20:09 -0700
From: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
To: Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
Message-ID:
<CAK2MWOvPH=DzaHDmfgFg9a+WzHQeZhxyWLyBfi5DtwOMt2Ja0w@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 12:42 PM Joseph Armbruster <
josepharmbruster@?????.???> wrote:
> Can you start your own amateur space organization?
You mean the one that just got three different grants that, in a better
time, would have gone to AMSAT?
The one that is designing the 6U microwave transponder for space use, and
the ground station to go with it?
The one that is operated with a sufficient level of transparency that
participants can get their technical projects done, and can collect funds
for them without their being diverted elsewhere?
The one where technical discussion dominates their mailing lists, and the
most controversial subject is how to spend their money?
I founded ORI with Michelle, and wrote the $3500 check to carry out its
501(c)3 acceptance (my largest donation ever to any organization),
because we needed to get our projects done in the face of AMSAT's board
being intractable. It should never have been necessary. We were not aware
that AMSAT had already hired lawyers against Michelle and Patrick when we
formed ORI. Obviously, this would have given us more reason. But we applied
for and were accepted for an AMSAT organizational membership, because our
intent was NOT to replace AMSAT but to fix it.
As you know, I previously lobbied, successfully, to replace a large portion
of the ARRL board and end the confidentiality vs. transparency debacle
there. Ironically, there are many parallels to the situation here,
including a board that chose to publicly libel one of their directors for
his attempt to reform them, a thing that the succeeding board wisely
withdrew.
Before that, I lobbied to end Morse code testing as a criterion for Amateur
licensing, also succeeding. Even though people pleaded with me to allow
Amateur Radio to "die with dignity".
Both of those things required working against ARRL, when ARRL *and the
majority of its own membership *were barriers to the advancement of Amateur
Radio. Fortunately, that was not the case internationally, and IARU voted,
against the urging of ARRL - their own international directorate - to work
to end the code testing requirement. Today, more people use CW on the air
than ever! Everybody won!
You don't achieve these things by backing down.
Thanks
Bruce
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 15:59:01 -0500
From: "KA9QJG" <KA9QJG@???????.???>
To: "'Bruce Perens'" <bruce@??????.???>, <AMSAT-BB@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
Message-ID: <006d01d66458$c1f13b40$45d3b1c0$@???????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
You Ask
> Can you start your own amateur space organization?
YES it is called the https://www.spaceforce.mil/
Everyone Stay Safe and Healthy With the way the world is now a little humor
helps
73 Don KA9QJG
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 17:07:42 -0400
From: Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster@?????.???>
To: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
Message-ID:
<CADkz4c_ep69826_PPEkW0i3NoJ2-wbr_HAi5dgkDxaXiJrvGbw@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Bruce,
None of the questions you asked mean anything tangible, but they make
it sound like a lot is going on. Is there? I don't know? To the
contrary, many public private grants and contracts are awarded and
produce absolutely nothing or are awarded for all the wrong reasons
and end up suffering down the line (being scrubbed, re-competed,
etc...). How long have the projects been taking place and what has
actually been produced? Is there a transponder? Is there a ground
station?
So with all the amateur radio in space work ORI is getting now, is it
directly competing with AMSAT at this point or is it still trying to
'fix' AMSAT?
>From the looks of the AMSAT bylaws, having an 'AMSAT organizational
membership' (Member Society, proper noun), eally just means you
submitted an application and paid a fee. Any organization could do
the same and would likely get accepted (membership-fees applied).
When you say """We were not aware that AMSAT had already hired lawyers
against Michelle and Patrick when we formed ORI.""". That's a red
flag in my mind, and it begs the question, why? And i'm not actually
asking you why, but i'm asking the membership to consider why this
could be. My individual observation is that AMSAT never hired an
attorney 'against' me, or any volunteering members in the past, at
least the ones I know personally. So, there must be a difference or
other information / circumstances.
Congratulations on lobbying to end morse code. Just imagine the
number of Amateur radio users there would be, if we just lobbied to
get rid of the permits.
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 4:20 PM Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 12:42 PM Joseph Armbruster
<josepharmbruster@?????.???> wrote:
>>
>> Can you start your own amateur space organization?
>
>
> You mean the one that just got three different grants that, in a better
time, would have gone to AMSAT?
> The one that is designing the 6U microwave transponder for space use, and
the ground station to go with it?
> The one that is operated with a sufficient level of transparency that
participants can get their technical projects done, and can collect funds
for them without their being diverted elsewhere?
> The one where technical discussion dominates their mailing lists, and the
most controversial subject is how to spend their money?
>
> I founded ORI with Michelle, and wrote the $3500 check to carry out its
501(c)3 acceptance (my largest donation ever to any organization), because
we needed to get our projects done in the face of AMSAT's board being
intractable. It should never have been necessary. We were not aware that
AMSAT had already hired lawyers against Michelle and Patrick when we formed
ORI. Obviously, this would have given us more reason. But we applied for and
were accepted for an AMSAT organizational membership, because our intent was
NOT to replace AMSAT but to fix it.
>
> As you know, I previously lobbied, successfully, to replace a large
portion of the ARRL board and end the confidentiality vs. transparency
debacle there. Ironically, there are many parallels to the situation here,
including a board that chose to publicly libel one of their directors for
his attempt to reform them, a thing that the succeeding board wisely withdrew.
>
> Before that, I lobbied to end Morse code testing as a criterion for
Amateur licensing, also succeeding. Even though people pleaded with me to
allow Amateur Radio to "die with dignity".
>
> Both of those things required working against ARRL, when ARRL and the
majority of its own membership were barriers to the advancement of Amateur
Radio. Fortunately, that was not the case internationally, and IARU voted,
against the urging of ARRL - their own international directorate - to work
to end the code testing requirement. Today, more people use CW on the air
than ever! Everybody won!
>
> You don't achieve these things by backing down.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 16:57:21 -0500
From: Zach Metzinger <zmetzing@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
Message-ID: <02efef13-6cf5-5758-46d1-0b7f63f67fb9@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 2020-07-27 11:44, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> The following is the text of a letter sent on behalf of Michelle
> Thompson W5NYV and me to AMSAT President Clayton Coleman W5PFG,
> along with everyone who co-signed Clayton's letter of 10 July 2020.
Patrick and Michelle,
Well, you've definitely driven the nails into the coffin of your
re-election campaign, and probably done the same for those in your cadre
who are on the ballot now.
Being a leader means that sometimes things don't go your way and you
just have to make the best of the current situation. Change takes time.
I'm not going to vote for people who chew up resources better spent on
education, experimentation, and encouraging new amateur radio operators
to join AMSAT.
73,
--- Zach
N0ZGO
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 14:59:19 -0700
From: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
To: Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
Message-ID:
<CAK2MWOvmkFfsVQrYdRruDu7vZmYPN14MLQXCJGs0dwCpE_pbpA@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 2:06 PM Joseph Armbruster <
josepharmbruster@?????.???> wrote:
> How long have the projects been taking place and what has
> actually been produced?
>
There is quite a lot that you can find on the web site.
https://openresearch.institute/ and these github repositories:
https://github.com/phase4ground/dvb_fpga
https://github.com/phase4ground/polar
https://github.com/phase4ground/documents
https://github.com/phase4ground/DVB-receiver
It's a pretty good record for an organization started in February 2019.
> So with all the amateur radio in space work ORI is getting now, is it
> directly competing with AMSAT at this point or is it still trying to 'fix'
> AMSAT?
>
You would not see three of the candidates, plus Michelle, Patrick, and
myself were there not a desire to fix AMSAT. I think ORI has become a
viable destination for funding the future development of Amateur Satellite,
while AMSAT is not being a good destination for that presently. This can be
fixed and both organizations can receive funding for their individual
projects solely on their technical merits. IMO AMSAT loses funds today due
to problems in organizational transparency and reliability in directing
funds to the earmarked purpose. I have heard specific complaints by two
large donors, but was not authorized to relay them.
Any organization could do the same and would likely get accepted
> (membership-fees applied).
>
Actually, we were appreciative that Brennan was running this. I do not
believe it would have gone as you say otherwise.
> My individual observation is that AMSAT never hired an attorney 'against'
> me, or any volunteering members in the past, at least the ones I know
> personally. So, there must be a difference or other information /
> circumstances.
>
Yes, there is indeed a difference. You have not acted as opposition.
As I have explained, volunteer directors of non-profit boards sometimes do
not learn how to deal with opposition. The problem is certainly not that
Michelle and Patrick have acted as opposition, but that the incumbent board
has ineptly and undemocratically handled opposition.
> Congratulations on lobbying to end morse code. Just imagine the number of
> Amateur radio users there would be, if we just lobbied to get rid of the
> permits.
So, do you think I never heard this sort of poorly-though-out rationale?
Obviously I was not working to get rid of the "permits". Although Amateur
licensing increased for a time, and we headed off our *immediate *demise, *it
is no longer doing so. *Old farts like you and I, Joseph, do not matter to
the future of Amateur Radio. Obviously we need to get it working on things
that will interest young people, or it may be that we preside over the end
of ham radio within our lifetimes.
Thanks
Bruce
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 22:17:49 +0000 (UTC)
From: GEO Badger <w3ab@?????.???>
To: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>, Joseph Armbruster
<josepharmbruster@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Reply to W5PFG's letter of 10 July 2020
Message-ID: <663007991.8014864.1595888269723@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
This Is?from someone not in the Amsat community but somewhat?knowledgeable
about the biz, Jim Lux,?W6RMK.
Just a general comment on the world of amateur satellites..
It may well be that AMSAT has reached the end of its natural life - and the
original purpose is no more - and this is why there is so much dissention
among the board.? If there's no clear common goal, then most organizations
wind up this way.? I've not followed AMSAT very closely - I'd look to folks
like Courtney N5BF for that kind of info - he was big into AMSAT a few
decades ago.
But in a larger picture sense - it used to be that getting a satellite into
orbit, as amateurs, was quite the feat - OSCAR-1, etc. showed that it was
possible. AMSAT served an immensely useful purpose in showing launch
providers that the secondary payload they were going to carry was actually
built by people who knew what they were doing, etc.? AMSAT was a key part of
"access to space" as well as a clearinghouse for amateur satellite design
and construction information.
As AMSAT's web page says:
"For over 50 years, AMSAT groups in North America and elsewhere have played
a key role in significantly advancing the state of the art in space science,
space education, and space technology."
Three big things have changed:
1) Amateur satellites are no longer inextricably combined with Amateur radio
- if you show up trying to get your satellite coordinated using amateur
frequencies, and it's just for TT&C (Telemetry, Tracking, and Control), and
not some sort of amateur radio communication function, you'll be told - get
your license another way: The amateur satellite service is not for you. And,
nobody in their right mind would use amateur radio derived designs for their
small-sat telecom - being able to leverage that 30 year old hardware you
found at a hamfest 20 years ago isn't a driver for most small sat project.
2) Access to space is now available to anyone with a sufficiently large
wallet, where "sufficiently large" is small enough to be within the range of
high school and university classes (particularly if they're getting a ride
with NASA CubeSat Launch Initiative - where the "ride" is free). There's an
entire world of brokers who will help you get your spacecraft into space,
licensed or not (Sara Spangelo and Swarm Technologies).? And I don't think
AMSAT has a better shot at getting amateur radio into GEO or HEO than any
other organization. That train left the station about 10 years ago.
3) Information on how to build a spacecraft is available everywhere, and
there are literally hundreds of people who have done it.
So you don't need AMSAT with its ham radio connections for licensing, nor
for access to space, nor for spacecraft building info.? ?What then, is
AMSAT's purpose, *today*? (other than self perpetuation and advocacy for
amateur satellite work - the latter is useful, but AMSAT isn't unique there)
Let's be clear here - I do not have a particular opinion about this
particular dispute - From the descriptions, some of the board members are
doing bad things, or at least things other board members aren't happy about.
That's certainly undesirable. But I don't see it as particularly different
than factional disputes in HOA boards, ham clubs, and local service
clubs/organizations.? ?
I'm commenting more because I see Amateur Radio heading towards a similar
problem.? What should ARRL be advocating for? I think that encouraging
microwave usage, in an experimental - advancing the art way, is a good idea.
Keeping the HF spectrum unencroached on - that requires vigilance - not that
I think contesting and DXCC should necessarily be amateur radio's raison
d'etre, but it's a hobby, enjoyed by many, and world wide HF communication
without depending on someone else's infrastructure is a cool aspect. I think
a lot of people are having fun with new digital modes on HF.? VHF and UHF -
cell phones have replaced the "utility" aspect of a HT and repeaters with
autopatch. It's an excellent place to start - cheap, no need for big
antenna, you learn a lot about propagation. I don't think that VHF is where
someone who's thinking microwaves should start - we've moved beyond the
"let's triple up from 144MHz to 432, and then we can triple again to 1296,
using a 10m rig as an IF." Not w
hen you can buy a DC-6GHz synthesizer chip for under $10, and a complete
radio for MF to 4 or 6 GHz for $100-200.
---?
Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side??
73 de W3AB/GEO ???
http://www.w3ab.org
You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".
On Monday, July 27, 2020, 02:10:30 PM PDT, Joseph Armbruster via
AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
Bruce,
None of the questions you asked mean anything tangible, but they make
it sound like a lot is going on.? Is there?? I don't know?? To the
contrary, many public private grants and contracts are awarded and
produce absolutely nothing or are awarded for all the wrong reasons
and end up suffering down the line (being scrubbed, re-competed,
etc...).? How long have the projects been taking place and what has
actually been produced?? Is there a transponder?? Is there a ground
station?
So with all the amateur radio in space work ORI is getting now, is it
directly competing with AMSAT at this point or is it still trying to
'fix' AMSAT?
>From the looks of the AMSAT bylaws, having an 'AMSAT organizational
membership' (Member Society, proper noun), eally just means you
submitted an application and paid a fee.? Any organization could do
the same and would likely get accepted (membership-fees applied).
When you say """We were not aware that AMSAT had already hired lawyers
against Michelle and Patrick when we formed ORI.""".? That's a red
flag in my mind, and it begs the question, why?? And i'm not actually
asking you why, but i'm asking the membership to consider why this
could be.? My individual observation is that AMSAT never hired an
attorney 'against' me, or any volunteering members in the past, at
least the ones I know personally.? So, there must be a difference or
other information / circumstances.
Congratulations on lobbying to end morse code.? Just imagine the
number of Amateur radio users there would be, if we just lobbied to
get rid of the permits.
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO
On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 4:20 PM Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 12:42 PM Joseph Armbruster
<josepharmbruster@?????.???> wrote:
>>
>> Can you start your own amateur space organization?
>
>
> You mean the one that just got three different grants that, in a better
time, would have gone to AMSAT?
> The one that is designing the 6U microwave transponder for space use, and
the ground station to go with it?
> The one that is operated with a sufficient level of transparency that
participants can get their technical projects done, and can collect funds
for them without their being diverted elsewhere?
> The one where technical discussion dominates their mailing lists, and the
most controversial subject is how to spend their money?
>
> I founded ORI with Michelle, and wrote the $3500 check to carry out its
501(c)3 acceptance (my largest donation ever to any organization), because
we needed to get our projects done in the face of AMSAT's board being
intractable. It should never have been necessary. We were not aware that
AMSAT had already hired lawyers against Michelle and Patrick when we formed
ORI. Obviously, this would have given us more reason. But we applied for and
were accepted for an AMSAT organizational membership, because our intent was
NOT to replace AMSAT but to fix it.
>
> As you know, I previously lobbied, successfully, to replace a large
portion of the ARRL board and end the confidentiality vs. transparency
debacle there. Ironically, there are many parallels to the situation here,
including a board that chose to publicly libel one of their directors for
his attempt to reform them, a thing that the succeeding board wisely withdrew.
>
> Before that, I lobbied to end Morse code testing as a criterion for
Amateur licensing, also succeeding. Even though people pleaded with me to
allow Amateur Radio to "die with dignity".
>
> Both of those things required working against ARRL, when ARRL and the
majority of its own membership were barriers to the advancement of Amateur
Radio. Fortunately, that was not the case internationally, and IARU voted,
against the urging of ARRL - their own international directorate - to work
to end the code testing requirement. Today, more people use CW on the air
than ever! Everybody won!
>
> You don't achieve these things by backing down.
>
>? ? Thanks
>
>? ? Bruce
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 305
*****************************************
Read previous mail | Read next mail
| |
