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To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Who Let THIS Info Out? (ka3hdo@?????.????
2. Re: Who Let THIS Info Out? (Jerry Buxton)
3. Re: Who Let THIS Info Out? (Michelle Thompson)
4. Re: Who Let THIS Info Out? (Fernando Ramirez)
5. Re: Who Let THIS Info Out? (Bruce Perens)
6. Re: Who Let THIS Info Out? (Joseph Armbruster)
7. Re: Who Let THIS Info Out? (73 Bob W7LRD)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 06:33:19 -0400
From: <ka3hdo@?????.???>
To: <amsat-bb@??????.???>, "'Fernando Ramirez'"
<framirezferrer@?????.???>, "'AMSAT'" <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Message-ID: <046b01d66b13$d6c391a0$844ab4e0$@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for a
meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new ARISS-USA
organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to drag ARISS
and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS, and I
have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign
agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name. In the
past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS. The functional
change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the tasks that AMSAT
has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this donated
support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had with AMSAT over
the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the press release on
the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th article
down).
One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD.
Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission success.
Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in organizations and
especially in space. If you all continue these behaviors, you will lose
your opportunities to fly your space missions of the future. Space agencies
and space corporations only want to work with folks that are dedicated to
mission success. I ask all to get over your grievances and start working as
a team as I would hate to see AMSAT lose space opportunities and space
relationships that have taken decades to build.
73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
ARISS-USA Executive Director
AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb@??????.???>
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer@?????.???>; AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Fernando,
Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there should
have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of March.
1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal
expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT
President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in mid-March, I
asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control
measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not
discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears AMSAT
is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for a
meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new ARISS-USA
organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes
regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them with
the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5 directors
- including the two running for reelection this summer - have joined our
calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has chosen not to. I
would be more than happy to discuss these, and other issues, during an
on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made available to AMSAT members.
Thank you.
Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @?????? or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 13:00:46 -0500
From: Jerry Buxton <n0jy@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Message-ID: <f39263f6-0122-06c5-2b91-722553c120e5@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
On 8/5/2020 05:33, Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD.
Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission success.
Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in organizations and
especially in space. If you all continue these behaviors, you will lose
your opportunities to fly your space missions of the future. Space agencies
and space corporations only want to work with folks that are dedicated to
mission success. I ask all to get over your grievances and start working as
a team as I would hate to see AMSAT lose space opportunities and space
relationships that have taken decades to build.
Well said Frank, and thank you!
The truth and importance of this cannot be overstated.? It is, quite
simply, spot on.
Perhaps my similar words to the Board and Officers have been taken with
less or little confidence in what I might know about this in my
experience as VPE.? I ask you then, please pay attention and respect to
Frank's words as drawn from his extensive experience with and within
space agencies and space corporations.
Even in my six years of AMSAT VPE history the respect that we have built
beginning with Fox-1A and continuing to this day with the GOLF
satellites is seen in NASA's high regard of AMSAT for being "by the
book" and reliable, with space corporations from the mission integrators
orchestrating integration and safe flight to the corporations wishing to
partner or help us in accessing space, and in working with government
agencies from the armed forces to NOAA/CRSRA imaging to FCC licensing.
AMSAT's standing is, as you may know from some of your own life/job
experiences, easily undone in a very short time by carelessness in our
conduct or in our commitments that is in contrast to the work we have
done that ultimately established and earned AMSAT their respect.
I join Frank here in again asking you all, please consider and
understand the severity and impact of your words and actions no matter
your title or work within AMSAT, support of AMSAT in being a member, or
candidacy for a position with AMSAT.
Thank you,
Jerry Buxton, N?JY
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 11:12:33 -0700
From: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle@?????.???>
To: Frank Bauer <ka3hdo@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Message-ID:
<CACvjz2VzVHqFuHj5yF5Ak7_yEni=y3ohXTH+LBdjMdqt3jGA3g@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Frank sums up the problems very well.
An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose
opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this and other
problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has happened.
We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
I am optimistic things can and will improve.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for
> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new ARISS-USA
> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
>
> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to drag
> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
>
> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS, and I
> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign
> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name. In
> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS. The functional
> change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the tasks that AMSAT
> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this donated
> support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had with AMSAT over
> the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the press release on
> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th article
> down).
>
> One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD.
> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission
> success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in
> organizations and especially in space. If you all continue these
> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space missions of
> the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want to work with
> folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to get over your
> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT lose
> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades to
> build.
>
> 73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
> ARISS-USA Executive Director
> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb@??????.???>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
> To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer@?????.???>; AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???
> >
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
>
> Fernando,
>
> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there should
> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of March.
>
> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal
> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT
> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
>
> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in mid-March, I
> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control
> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not
> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears AMSAT
> is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
>
> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for a
> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new ARISS-USA
> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes
> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them with
> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
>
> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5
> directors - including the two running for reelection this summer - have
> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has chosen
> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other issues,
> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made available to
> AMSAT members.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> Twitter: @?????? or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 11:38:58 -0700
From: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer@?????.???>
To: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle@?????.???>
Cc: Frank Bauer <ka3hdo@?????.???>, AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Message-ID:
<CAGHXx8jq9rozuKCj_P5VA99wbrehTOBD=fkRTUgXEtsdgy+1kg@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be handled
very carefully.
For that same reason I think two separate legally established entities must
discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release. Probably
both AMSAT
and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of Understanding
establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard
friendships)
73
Fernando KF7R
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle@?????.???>
wrote:
> Frank sums up the problems very well.
>
> An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose
> opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this and other
> problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has happened.
>
> We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
>
> We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
>
> I am optimistic things can and will improve.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
>> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for
>> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new ARISS-USA
>> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
>>
>> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to drag
>> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
>>
>> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS, and I
>> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign
>> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name. In
>> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS. The functional
>> change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the tasks that AMSAT
>> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this donated
>> support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had with AMSAT over
>> the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the press release on
>> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th
>> article down).
>>
>> One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD.
>> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission
>> success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in
>> organizations and especially in space. If you all continue these
>> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space missions of
>> the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want to work with
>> folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to get over your
>> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT lose
>> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades to
>> build.
>>
>> 73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
>> ARISS-USA Executive Director
>> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb@??????.???>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
>> To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer@?????.???>; AMSAT <
>> amsat-bb@?????.???>
>> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
>>
>> Fernando,
>>
>> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there should
>> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of March.
>>
>> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal
>> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT
>> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
>>
>> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in mid-March, I
>> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control
>> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not
>> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears AMSAT
>> is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
>>
>> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for a
>> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new ARISS-USA
>> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
>> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes
>> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them with
>> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
>>
>> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5
>> directors - including the two running for reelection this summer - have
>> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has chosen
>> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other issues,
>> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made available to
>> AMSAT members.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
>> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
>> Twitter: @?????? or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 12:01:47 -0700
From: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer@?????.???>
Cc: Frank Bauer <ka3hdo@?????.???>, AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Message-ID:
<CAK2MWOvcpz2-bkFs_NvrYxfNffUfTvABt3W474kscKVSix-fAQ@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve themselves
publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other
organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an AMSAT
issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue that,
and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made several
weeks ago.
In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a course
that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active
volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the membership
and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and
appropriate within the context of an election.
Thanks
Bruce
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be handled
> very carefully.
>
> For that same reason I think two separate legally established entities must
> discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release. Probably
> both AMSAT
> and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of Understanding
> establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
>
> Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard
> friendships)
>
> 73
>
> Fernando KF7R
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson <
> mountain.michelle@?????.???>
> wrote:
>
> > Frank sums up the problems very well.
> >
> > An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose
> > opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this and
> other
> > problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has happened.
> >
> > We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
> >
> > We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
> >
> > I am optimistic things can and will improve.
> >
> > -Michelle W5NYV
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> >> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling
> for
> >> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
> ARISS-USA
> >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> >>
> >> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to drag
> >> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
> >>
> >> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS, and
> I
> >> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign
> >> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name. In
> >> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS. The
> functional
> >> change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the tasks that
> AMSAT
> >> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this donated
> >> support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had with AMSAT
> over
> >> the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the press
> release on
> >> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th
> >> article down).
> >>
> >> One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD.
> >> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission
> >> success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in
> >> organizations and especially in space. If you all continue these
> >> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space missions
> of
> >> the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want to work
> with
> >> folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to get over your
> >> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT lose
> >> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades to
> >> build.
> >>
> >> 73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
> >> ARISS-USA Executive Director
> >> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb@??????.???>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
> >> To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer@?????.???>; AMSAT <
> >> amsat-bb@?????.???>
> >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
> >>
> >> Fernando,
> >>
> >> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there should
> >> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of March.
> >>
> >> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal
> >> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT
> >> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
> >>
> >> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in mid-March, I
> >> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control
> >> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not
> >> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears
> AMSAT
> >> is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
> >>
> >> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling for
> a
> >> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
> ARISS-USA
> >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> >> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes
> >> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them
> with
> >> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
> >>
> >> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5
> >> directors - including the two running for reelection this summer - have
> >> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has
> chosen
> >> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other issues,
> >> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made available
> to
> >> AMSAT members.
> >>
> >> Thank you.
> >>
> >> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> >> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> >> Twitter: @?????? or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> >> AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
--
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 16:01:19 -0400
From: Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster@?????.???>
To: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
Cc: Frank Bauer <ka3hdo@?????.???>, AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Message-ID:
<CADkz4c8si7gk8KinvEi9oVJQ6H_jB7NNK+vcbwArf5ZifVcFNg@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Bruce,
All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative that you
and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the organization,
for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD. I can only
assume, with the intention of growing ORI? I mean, you did say they got
three amateur radio in space grants, right? Why weren't those pursued
through AMSAT? What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is quite
sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent. There are many of us
members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop, go
away and maybe work harder at growing ORI. This action would directly help
preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort and
energy more productively. Think of the problems you could solve if you
were just not being held back..? I know engineers personally that helped
developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp, *involved
AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless years
of their lives building kit for AMSAT. I saw it and it's some amazing,
amazing, amazing hardware. I speak per my observations of these
individuals, not for them. Every volunteer organization gains and looses
members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life, state of
the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a reflection of
the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
> It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve themselves
> publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other
> organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an AMSAT
> issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue that,
> and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made several
> weeks ago.
>
> In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a course
> that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active
> volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the membership
> and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and
> appropriate within the context of an election.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bruce
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> > I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be
> handled
> > very carefully.
> >
> > For that same reason I think two separate legally established entities
> must
> > discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release. Probably
> > both AMSAT
> > and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of Understanding
> > establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
> >
> > Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard
> > friendships)
> >
> > 73
> >
> > Fernando KF7R
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson <
> > mountain.michelle@?????.???>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Frank sums up the problems very well.
> > >
> > > An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose
> > > opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this and
> > other
> > > problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has happened.
> > >
> > > We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
> > >
> > > We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
> > >
> > > I am optimistic things can and will improve.
> > >
> > > -Michelle W5NYV
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <
> > > amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> > >
> > >> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling
> > for
> > >> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
> > ARISS-USA
> > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> > >>
> > >> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to drag
> > >> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
> > >>
> > >> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS,
> and
> > I
> > >> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign
> > >> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.
> In
> > >> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS. The
> > functional
> > >> change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the tasks that
> > AMSAT
> > >> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this
> donated
> > >> support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had with AMSAT
> > over
> > >> the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the press
> > release on
> > >> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th
> > >> article down).
> > >>
> > >> One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD.
> > >> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission
> > >> success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in
> > >> organizations and especially in space. If you all continue these
> > >> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space missions
> > of
> > >> the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want to work
> > with
> > >> folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to get over
> your
> > >> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT
> lose
> > >> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades to
> > >> build.
> > >>
> > >> 73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
> > >> ARISS-USA Executive Director
> > >> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb@??????.???>
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
> > >> To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer@?????.???>; AMSAT <
> > >> amsat-bb@?????.???>
> > >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
> > >>
> > >> Fernando,
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there
> should
> > >> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of March.
> > >>
> > >> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal
> > >> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter AMSAT
> > >> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
> > >>
> > >> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in
> mid-March, I
> > >> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control
> > >> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not
> > >> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears
> > AMSAT
> > >> is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
> > >>
> > >> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling
> for
> > a
> > >> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
> > ARISS-USA
> > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> > >> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes
> > >> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review them
> > with
> > >> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
> > >>
> > >> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5
> > >> directors - including the two running for reelection this summer -
> have
> > >> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has
> > chosen
> > >> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other issues,
> > >> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made available
> > to
> > >> AMSAT members.
> > >>
> > >> Thank you.
> > >>
> > >> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> > >> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> > >> Twitter: @?????? or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > >> Opinions expressed
> > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> > >> AMSAT-NA.
> > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > >> Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
>
>
> --
> Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
> :-)
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 13:18:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: 73 Bob W7LRD <w7lrd@???????.???>
To: Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster@?????.???>, Joseph Armbruster
via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>, Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
Cc: Frank Bauer <ka3hdo@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Message-ID: <1460143099.49444.1596658728645@???????.???????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hi All-I really wish all this BS would stop. You should all go out to the
back shed and just deal with it. I just want to play with satellites and
all the goodies around them. Take your interpersonal relationships and-------
73 Bob W7LRD
> On 08/05/2020 1:01 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
>
>
> Bruce,
>
>
> All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative that you
> and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the organization,
> for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD. I can only
> assume, with the intention of growing ORI? I mean, you did say they got
> three amateur radio in space grants, right? Why weren't those pursued
> through AMSAT? What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is quite
> sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent. There are many of us
> members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop, go
> away and maybe work harder at growing ORI. This action would directly help
> preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort and
> energy more productively. Think of the problems you could solve if you
> were just not being held back..? I know engineers personally that helped
> developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp, *involved
> AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless years
> of their lives building kit for AMSAT. I saw it and it's some amazing,
> amazing, amazing hardware. I speak per my observations of these
> individuals, not for them. Every volunteer organization gains and looses
> members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life, state of
> the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a reflection of
> the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
>
>
> Joseph Armbruster
>
> KJ4JIO
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???>
> wrote:
>
> > It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve
themselves
> > publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other
> > organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an AMSAT
> > issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue that,
> > and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made several
> > weeks ago.
> >
> > In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a course
> > that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active
> > volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the membership
> > and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and
> > appropriate within the context of an election.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> > > I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be
> > handled
> > > very carefully.
> > >
> > > For that same reason I think two separate legally established entities
> > must
> > > discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release. Probably
> > > both AMSAT
> > > and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of Understanding
> > > establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
> > >
> > > Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard
> > > friendships)
> > >
> > > 73
> > >
> > > Fernando KF7R
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson <
> > > mountain.michelle@?????.???>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Frank sums up the problems very well.
> > > >
> > > > An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose
> > > > opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this and
> > > other
> > > > problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has happened.
> > > >
> > > > We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
> > > >
> > > > We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
> > > >
> > > > I am optimistic things can and will improve.
> > > >
> > > > -Michelle W5NYV
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <
> > > > amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling
> > > for
> > > >> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
> > > ARISS-USA
> > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> > > >>
> > > >> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to drag
> > > >> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
> > > >>
> > > >> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS,
> > and
> > > I
> > > >> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign
> > > >> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.
> > In
> > > >> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS. The
> > > functional
> > > >> change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the tasks that
> > > AMSAT
> > > >> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this
> > donated
> > > >> support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had with
AMSAT
> > > over
> > > >> the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the press
> > > release on
> > > >> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th
> > > >> article down).
> > > >>
> > > >> One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD.
> > > >> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission
> > > >> success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in
> > > >> organizations and especially in space. If you all continue these
> > > >> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space
missions
> > > of
> > > >> the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want to work
> > > with
> > > >> folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to get over
> > your
> > > >> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT
> > lose
> > > >> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades
to
> > > >> build.
> > > >>
> > > >> 73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
> > > >> ARISS-USA Executive Director
> > > >> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb@??????.???>
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
> > > >> To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer@?????.???>; AMSAT <
> > > >> amsat-bb@?????.???>
> > > >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
> > > >>
> > > >> Fernando,
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there
> > should
> > > >> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of
March.
> > > >>
> > > >> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal
> > > >> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter
AMSAT
> > > >> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
> > > >>
> > > >> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in
> > mid-March, I
> > > >> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control
> > > >> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not
> > > >> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears
> > > AMSAT
> > > >> is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
> > > >>
> > > >> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling
> > for
> > > a
> > > >> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
> > > ARISS-USA
> > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> > > >> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes
> > > >> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review
them
> > > with
> > > >> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
> > > >>
> > > >> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5
> > > >> directors - including the two running for reelection this summer -
> > have
> > > >> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has
> > > chosen
> > > >> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other
issues,
> > > >> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made
available
> > > to
> > > >> AMSAT members.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thank you.
> > > >>
> > > >> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> > > >> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> > > >> Twitter: @?????? or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > > >> Opinions expressed
> > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> > of
> > > >> AMSAT-NA.
> > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > > program!
> > > >> Subscription settings:
> > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions
> > > expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
> > :-)
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 318
*****************************************
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