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CX2SA > SATDIG 06.08.20 02:30l 1136 Lines 40643 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Who Let THIS Info Out? (Bruce Perens)
2. Re: Who Let THIS Info Out? (John Brier)
3. XW-2D (Michael Walker)
4. Re: XW-2D (kb2mjeff@???.????
5. Re: XW-2D (Yono Adisoemarta)
6. Re: Who Let THIS Info Out? (Joseph Armbruster)
7. Re: Who Let THIS Info Out? (Bruce Perens)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 14:22:29 -0700
From: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
To: Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster@?????.???>
Cc: Frank Bauer <ka3hdo@?????.???>, AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Message-ID:
<CAK2MWOtJDfpEQ6kpY2hBvBoFFsAtO9OnhNBpCbmVDyAiEvFusw@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 12:59 PM Joseph Armbruster <
josepharmbruster@?????.???> wrote:
> I can only assume, with the intention of growing ORI?
>
I am not on the ORI board and do not write their strategy. My only purpose
here is the advancement of Amateur Satellites, which in my sincere opinion
is not being carried out well by AMSAT at the moment.
Why weren't those [grants] pursued through AMSAT?
>
I believe a *large *personal donation meant for the ground-station project
was otherwise allocated and failed to reach the project. I was not directly
involved in the transaction, but have heard from the donor and the project.
Being able to direct donations where intended was one, but not the only,
impetus for the formation of ORI.
I work on many projects. Participating in the democratic process of AMSAT's
board election is just one. It is one where members are expected to
participate, Joseph, and your attempts to dissuade me continue to appear
undemocratic and in opposition to a member's right to express civil free
speech regarding the operation of the organization and the appropriateness
of its directors for re-election.
Thanks
Bruce
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 17:33:24 -0400
From: John Brier <johnbrier@?????.???>
To: Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster@?????.???>
Cc: Frank Bauer <ka3hdo@?????.???>, AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Message-ID:
<CALn0fKOcJRfeWhfN4BkyzDAS7Hn0t=bYtYW0C2TCGGagaMr9-w@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
"wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing ORI"
At this point it's clear there are big disagreements and issues that
must be worked out so wishing or suggesting people just go away seems
unhelpful. Might as well leave this point out as it just muddies the
waters around any reasonable points you have.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:08 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> Bruce,
>
>
> All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative that you
> and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the organization,
> for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD. I can only
> assume, with the intention of growing ORI? I mean, you did say they got
> three amateur radio in space grants, right? Why weren't those pursued
> through AMSAT? What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is quite
> sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent. There are many of us
> members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop, go
> away and maybe work harder at growing ORI. This action would directly help
> preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort and
> energy more productively. Think of the problems you could solve if you
> were just not being held back..? I know engineers personally that helped
> developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp, *involved
> AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless years
> of their lives building kit for AMSAT. I saw it and it's some amazing,
> amazing, amazing hardware. I speak per my observations of these
> individuals, not for them. Every volunteer organization gains and looses
> members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life, state of
> the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a reflection of
> the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
>
>
> Joseph Armbruster
>
> KJ4JIO
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???>
> wrote:
>
> > It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve
themselves
> > publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other
> > organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an AMSAT
> > issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue that,
> > and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made several
> > weeks ago.
> >
> > In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a course
> > that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active
> > volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the membership
> > and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and
> > appropriate within the context of an election.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> > > I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be
> > handled
> > > very carefully.
> > >
> > > For that same reason I think two separate legally established entities
> > must
> > > discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release. Probably
> > > both AMSAT
> > > and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of Understanding
> > > establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
> > >
> > > Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard
> > > friendships)
> > >
> > > 73
> > >
> > > Fernando KF7R
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson <
> > > mountain.michelle@?????.???>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Frank sums up the problems very well.
> > > >
> > > > An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose
> > > > opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this and
> > > other
> > > > problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has happened.
> > > >
> > > > We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
> > > >
> > > > We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
> > > >
> > > > I am optimistic things can and will improve.
> > > >
> > > > -Michelle W5NYV
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <
> > > > amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling
> > > for
> > > >> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
> > > ARISS-USA
> > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> > > >>
> > > >> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to drag
> > > >> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
> > > >>
> > > >> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to ARISS,
> > and
> > > I
> > > >> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign
> > > >> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS name.
> > In
> > > >> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS. The
> > > functional
> > > >> change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the tasks that
> > > AMSAT
> > > >> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this
> > donated
> > > >> support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had with
AMSAT
> > > over
> > > >> the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the press
> > > release on
> > > >> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th
> > > >> article down).
> > > >>
> > > >> One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD.
> > > >> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission
> > > >> success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in
> > > >> organizations and especially in space. If you all continue these
> > > >> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space
missions
> > > of
> > > >> the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want to work
> > > with
> > > >> folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to get over
> > your
> > > >> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see AMSAT
> > lose
> > > >> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken decades
to
> > > >> build.
> > > >>
> > > >> 73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
> > > >> ARISS-USA Executive Director
> > > >> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb@??????.???>
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
> > > >> To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer@?????.???>; AMSAT <
> > > >> amsat-bb@?????.???>
> > > >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
> > > >>
> > > >> Fernando,
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there
> > should
> > > >> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of
March.
> > > >>
> > > >> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on legal
> > > >> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter
AMSAT
> > > >> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
> > > >>
> > > >> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in
> > mid-March, I
> > > >> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary control
> > > >> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has not
> > > >> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it appears
> > > AMSAT
> > > >> is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
> > > >>
> > > >> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June, calling
> > for
> > > a
> > > >> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
> > > ARISS-USA
> > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> > > >> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his notes
> > > >> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review
them
> > > with
> > > >> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
> > > >>
> > > >> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5
> > > >> directors - including the two running for reelection this summer -
> > have
> > > >> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but has
> > > chosen
> > > >> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other
issues,
> > > >> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made
available
> > > to
> > > >> AMSAT members.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thank you.
> > > >>
> > > >> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> > > >> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> > > >> Twitter: @?????? or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > > >> Opinions expressed
> > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> > of
> > > >> AMSAT-NA.
> > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > > program!
> > > >> Subscription settings:
> > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions
> > > expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
> > :-)
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 18:28:27 -0400
From: Michael Walker <va3mw@??????????.???>
To: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] XW-2D
Message-ID:
<CA+33ts6uRu-dFH8mMGU--XOnxRqRmyCUnJXrramGjLFtchVkFg@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
All
Just to confirm that XW-2D is non-usable?
I seems to transpond for a few seconds and then goes mute for 10 seconds or
so?
Mike va3mw
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 19:18:42 -0400
From: <kb2mjeff@???.???>
To: <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] XW-2D
Message-ID: <024e01d66b7e$c31d58a0$495809e0$@???.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
It's in meteor scatter test mode ?
73 Jeff kb2m
-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???> On Behalf Of Michael Walker via
AMSAT-BB
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 18:28
To: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] XW-2D
All
Just to confirm that XW-2D is non-usable?
I seems to transpond for a few seconds and then goes mute for 10 seconds or
so?
Mike va3mw
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all
interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 06:38:33 +0700
From: Yono Adisoemarta <yono_adisoemarta@?????.???>
To: kb2mjeff@???.???
Cc: AMSAT-BB@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] XW-2D
Message-ID: <31C304E4-F629-4E90-89E3-EE8C6B2C2A88@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You have to time it perfectly to make a complete QSO.
73 de Yono - YD0NXX
Sent from my iPhone
> -----Original Message-----
>
> To: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
> Subject: [amsat-bb] XW-2D
>
> All
>
> Just to confirm that XW-2D is non-usable?
>
> I seems to transpond for a few seconds and then goes mute for 10 seconds
or so?
>
> Mike va3mw
> _______________________________________________
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 20:01:44 -0400
From: Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster@?????.???>
To: John Brier <johnbrier@?????.???>
Cc: Frank Bauer <ka3hdo@?????.???>, AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Message-ID:
<CADkz4c-ReTk1USAo6qnz3Lf2MvHch1Ab2MkWLz70s871jUmOkA@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
John,
I can see it being unhelpful, if you signed on with the guy that i'm asking
to go away :-)
ref: https://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
Cheers,
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 5:33 PM John Brier <johnbrier@?????.???> wrote:
> "wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing ORI"
>
> At this point it's clear there are big disagreements and issues that
> must be worked out so wishing or suggesting people just go away seems
> unhelpful. Might as well leave this point out as it just muddies the
> waters around any reasonable points you have.
>
> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:08 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> > Bruce,
> >
> >
> > All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative that you
> > and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the organization,
> > for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD. I can only
> > assume, with the intention of growing ORI? I mean, you did say they got
> > three amateur radio in space grants, right? Why weren't those pursued
> > through AMSAT? What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is quite
> > sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent. There are many of us
> > members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop, go
> > away and maybe work harder at growing ORI. This action would directly
> help
> > preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort and
> > energy more productively. Think of the problems you could solve if you
> > were just not being held back..? I know engineers personally that helped
> > developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp,
> *involved
> > AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless years
> > of their lives building kit for AMSAT. I saw it and it's some amazing,
> > amazing, amazing hardware. I speak per my observations of these
> > individuals, not for them. Every volunteer organization gains and looses
> > members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life, state
> of
> > the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a reflection of
> > the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
> >
> >
> > Joseph Armbruster
> >
> > KJ4JIO
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve
> themselves
> > > publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other
> > > organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an
> AMSAT
> > > issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue
> that,
> > > and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made several
> > > weeks ago.
> > >
> > > In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a
> course
> > > that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active
> > > volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the
> membership
> > > and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and
> > > appropriate within the context of an election.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Bruce
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
> > > amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be
> > > handled
> > > > very carefully.
> > > >
> > > > For that same reason I think two separate legally established
> entities
> > > must
> > > > discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release. Probably
> > > > both AMSAT
> > > > and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of Understanding
> > > > establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
> > > >
> > > > Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard
> > > > friendships)
> > > >
> > > > 73
> > > >
> > > > Fernando KF7R
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson <
> > > > mountain.michelle@?????.???>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Frank sums up the problems very well.
> > > > >
> > > > > An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose
> > > > > opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this
> and
> > > > other
> > > > > problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has
> happened.
> > > > >
> > > > > We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
> > > > >
> > > > > We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am optimistic things can and will improve.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Michelle W5NYV
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <
> > > > > amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
> calling
> > > > for
> > > > >> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
> > > > ARISS-USA
> > > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to
> drag
> > > > >> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to
> ARISS,
> > > and
> > > > I
> > > > >> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to sign
> > > > >> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS
> name.
> > > In
> > > > >> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS. The
> > > > functional
> > > > >> change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the tasks
> that
> > > > AMSAT
> > > > >> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this
> > > donated
> > > > >> support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had with
> AMSAT
> > > > over
> > > > >> the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the press
> > > > release on
> > > > >> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org (6th
> > > > >> article down).
> > > > >>
> > > > >> One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD.
> > > > >> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space mission
> > > > >> success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in
> > > > >> organizations and especially in space. If you all continue these
> > > > >> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space
> missions
> > > > of
> > > > >> the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want to
> work
> > > > with
> > > > >> folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to get
> over
> > > your
> > > > >> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see
> AMSAT
> > > lose
> > > > >> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken
> decades to
> > > > >> build.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
> > > > >> ARISS-USA Executive Director
> > > > >> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb@??????.???>
> > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
> > > > >> To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer@?????.???>; AMSAT <
> > > > >> amsat-bb@?????.???>
> > > > >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Fernando,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there
> > > should
> > > > >> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of
> March.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on
> legal
> > > > >> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter
> AMSAT
> > > > >> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in
> > > mid-March, I
> > > > >> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary
> control
> > > > >> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has
> not
> > > > >> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it
> appears
> > > > AMSAT
> > > > >> is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
> calling
> > > for
> > > > a
> > > > >> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
> > > > ARISS-USA
> > > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
> > > > >> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his
> notes
> > > > >> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and review
> them
> > > > with
> > > > >> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other 5
> > > > >> directors - including the two running for reelection this summer -
> > > have
> > > > >> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but
> has
> > > > chosen
> > > > >> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other
> issues,
> > > > >> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made
> available
> > > > to
> > > > >> AMSAT members.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Thank you.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> > > > >> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> > > > >> Twitter: @?????? or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> > > > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > > > >> Opinions expressed
> > > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views
> > > of
> > > > >> AMSAT-NA.
> > > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > > > program!
> > > > >> Subscription settings:
> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> available
> > > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > > Opinions
> > > > expressed
> > > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of
> > > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> > > program!
> > > > Subscription settings:
> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
> eventually
> > > :-)
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > > expressed
> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of
> > > AMSAT-NA.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 17:06:27 -0700
From: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
To: Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>, Frank Bauer <ka3hdo@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Message-ID:
<CAK2MWOu==4FG3RG9WpAJXV1v9j4ZBC85=wSBtdNGRMfWuPKgyQ@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Joseph,
This is either ad-hominem or just incomprehensible. I know you are capable
of presenting credible arguments. Please endeavor to do so.
Thanks
Bruce
On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:59 PM Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster@?????.???>
wrote:
> John,
>
> I can see it being unhelpful, if you signed on with the guy that i'm
> asking to go away :-)
> ref: https://perens.com/static/AMSAT/Election2020.html
>
> Cheers,
> Joseph Armbruster
> KJ4JIO
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 5:33 PM John Brier <johnbrier@?????.???> wrote:
>
>> "wish you would just stop, go away and maybe work harder at growing ORI"
>>
>> At this point it's clear there are big disagreements and issues that
>> must be worked out so wishing or suggesting people just go away seems
>> unhelpful. Might as well leave this point out as it just muddies the
>> waters around any reasonable points you have.
>>
>> 73, John Brier KG4AKV
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:08 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB
>> <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>> >
>> > Bruce,
>> >
>> >
>> > All your statements about AMSAT leadership are a false narrative that
>> you
>> > and your crew are constantly perpetuating to discredit the organization,
>> > for the sake of securing like-minded individuals on the BOD. I can only
>> > assume, with the intention of growing ORI? I mean, you did say they got
>> > three amateur radio in space grants, right? Why weren't those pursued
>> > through AMSAT? What you're doing to AMSAT on the bb publicly is quite
>> > sad, though no doubt, coordinated and with intent. There are many of us
>> > members (some vocal, many not) that really wish you would just stop, go
>> > away and maybe work harder at growing ORI. This action would directly
>> help
>> > preserve AMSATs integrity and give you a path to direct your effort and
>> > energy more productively. Think of the problems you could solve if you
>> > were just not being held back..? I know engineers personally that
>> helped
>> > developed that power supply for ARISS and they are really sharp,
>> *involved
>> > AMSAT members* that from my own observation have invested countless
>> years
>> > of their lives building kit for AMSAT. I saw it and it's some amazing,
>> > amazing, amazing hardware. I speak per my observations of these
>> > individuals, not for them. Every volunteer organization gains and
>> looses
>> > members, all the time, depending on what's going on in their life,
>> state of
>> > the economy, etc...that's not surprising nor necessarily a reflection of
>> > the work taking place within the organization, or its leadership.
>> >
>> >
>> > Joseph Armbruster
>> >
>> > KJ4JIO
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:07 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <
>> amsat-bb@?????.???>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > It is entirely not in ARISS-USA's and AREx's interest to involve
>> themselves
>> > > publicly in AMSAT politics, or indeed that of almost any other
>> > > organization. While I was curious about the "why now" and "was it an
>> AMSAT
>> > > issue", it is potentially damaging to ARISS-USA and AREx to pursue
>> that,
>> > > and I respect Frank's request that we stop, which he first made
>> several
>> > > weeks ago.
>> > >
>> > > In contrast, my perception is that AMSAT leadership is pursuing a
>> course
>> > > that has so damaged its relationship with many previously-active
>> > > volunteers, at least one major donor, and a good portion of the
>> membership
>> > > and non-member hams; that public intervention is necessary - and
>> > > appropriate within the context of an election.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks
>> > >
>> > > Bruce
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:42 AM Fernando Ramirez via AMSAT-BB <
>> > > amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > I understand Frank's concerns and agree that these matters must be
>> > > handled
>> > > > very carefully.
>> > > >
>> > > > For that same reason I think two separate legally established
>> entities
>> > > must
>> > > > discuss their current partnership beyond of a press release.
>> Probably
>> > > > both AMSAT
>> > > > and ARISS USA need to draft and approve a Memorandum of
>> Understanding
>> > > > establishing, in writing, how are things going to work from now on.
>> > > >
>> > > > Like we say in good ol' Castilian "well defined business safeguard
>> > > > friendships)
>> > > >
>> > > > 73
>> > > >
>> > > > Fernando KF7R
>> > > >
>> > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 AM Michelle Thompson <
>> > > > mountain.michelle@?????.???>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Frank sums up the problems very well.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > An organization with unaddressed unauthorized spending could lose
>> > > > > opportunities in space. Refusing to even meet to talk about this
>> and
>> > > > other
>> > > > > problems has put the organization at risk. That is what has
>> happened.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > We can't collaborate when we are denied meetings.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > We can't have teamwork without collaboration.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I am optimistic things can and will improve.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -Michelle W5NYV
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:36 AM Frank Bauer via AMSAT-BB <
>> > > > > amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >> >>3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
>> calling
>> > > > for
>> > > > >> a meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
>> > > > ARISS-USA
>> > > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> I would like to respectfully request for folks to stop trying to
>> drag
>> > > > >> ARISS and the new AREx initiative into this political battle.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> In previous posts, Dave Taylor, W8AAS, the AMSAT delegate to
>> ARISS,
>> > > and
>> > > > I
>> > > > >> have stated that ARISS-USA became an entity to allow ARISS to
>> sign
>> > > > >> agreements (with NASA and others) and seek grants in the ARISS
>> name.
>> > > In
>> > > > >> the past, AMSAT has done that in the US on behalf of ARISS. The
>> > > > functional
>> > > > >> change is that ARISS is assuming for itself some of the tasks
>> that
>> > > > AMSAT
>> > > > >> has donated support to accomplish. (and we thank AMSAT for this
>> > > donated
>> > > > >> support!) The good working relationship that ARISS has had with
>> AMSAT
>> > > > over
>> > > > >> the years is NOT changing. For more information, read the press
>> > > > release on
>> > > > >> the new ARISS-USA entity on the ARISS web site www.ariss.org
>> (6th
>> > > > >> article down).
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> One item I will remind all of you: Getting into space is HARD.
>> > > > >> Collaboration and teamwork are essential elements of space
>> mission
>> > > > >> success. Infighting and back biting are a recipe for disaster in
>> > > > >> organizations and especially in space. If you all continue these
>> > > > >> behaviors, you will lose your opportunities to fly your space
>> missions
>> > > > of
>> > > > >> the future. Space agencies and space corporations only want to
>> work
>> > > > with
>> > > > >> folks that are dedicated to mission success. I ask all to get
>> over
>> > > your
>> > > > >> grievances and start working as a team as I would hate to see
>> AMSAT
>> > > lose
>> > > > >> space opportunities and space relationships that have taken
>> decades to
>> > > > >> build.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> 73, Frank Bauer, KA3HDO
>> > > > >> ARISS-USA Executive Director
>> > > > >> AMSAT-NA V.P. for Human Spaceflight Programs
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > > > >> From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb@??????.???>
>> > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:30 AM
>> > > > >> To: Fernando Ramirez <framirezferrer@?????.???>; AMSAT <
>> > > > >> amsat-bb@?????.???>
>> > > > >> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Fernando,
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Thanks for asking. Yes, I have made calls for meetings, and there
>> > > should
>> > > > >> have been meetings since the last special meeting at the end of
>> March.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> 1. Discuss the thousands of dollars in unauthorized spending on
>> legal
>> > > > >> expenses since 2018 - a point that is not disputed in the letter
>> AMSAT
>> > > > >> President Clayton Coleman sent to members last month.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> 2. After Robert Bankston's financial report was released in
>> > > mid-March, I
>> > > > >> asked for a meeting to discuss the "cost-saving and budgetary
>> control
>> > > > >> measures" he started to implement. After many months, Robert has
>> not
>> > > > >> discussed these measures. Given the unauthorized spending, it
>> appears
>> > > > AMSAT
>> > > > >> is in dire need of budgetary control measures.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> 3. I had e-mailed Clayton Coleman and the Board on 13 June,
>> calling
>> > > for
>> > > > a
>> > > > >> meeting to discuss the announcement of the formation of the new
>> > > > ARISS-USA
>> > > > >> organization, and the effect that would have on AMSAT.
>> > > > >> Clayton informed the Board on 16 June that he would gather his
>> notes
>> > > > >> regarding a discussion with Frank Bauer and ARISS-USA, and
>> review them
>> > > > with
>> > > > >> the Board. As of tonight, nothing from Clayton.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Michelle has also made calls for meetings. Yet none of the other
>> 5
>> > > > >> directors - including the two running for reelection this summer
>> -
>> > > have
>> > > > >> joined our calls for meetings. Clayton could call meetings, but
>> has
>> > > > chosen
>> > > > >> not to. I would be more than happy to discuss these, and other
>> issues,
>> > > > >> during an on-the-record Board meeting where minutes are made
>> available
>> > > > to
>> > > > >> AMSAT members.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Thank you.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Patrick Stoddard, WD9EWK/VA7EWK
>> > > > >> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
>> > > > >> Twitter: @?????? or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> _______________________________________________
>> > > > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>> available
>> > > > >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> > > > >> Opinions expressed
>> > > > >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>> views
>> > > of
>> > > > >> AMSAT-NA.
>> > > > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> > > > program!
>> > > > >> Subscription settings:
>> > > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
>> available
>> > > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> > > Opinions
>> > > > expressed
>> > > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
>> views of
>> > > > AMSAT-NA.
>> > > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> > > program!
>> > > > Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is
>> eventually
>> > > :-)
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions
>> > > expressed
>> > > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of
>> > > AMSAT-NA.
>> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > > Subscription settings:
>> https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>
--
Bruce Perens - CEO at stealth startup. I'll tell you what it is eventually
:-)
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 319
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