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CX2SA > SATDIG 08.08.20 00:20l 788 Lines 35394 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Who Let THIS Info Out? (Bruce Perens)
2. Re: Who Let THIS Info Out? (David Swanson)
3. Re: Who Let THIS Info Out? (Joseph Armbruster)
4. FT-736 power supply part. (Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL)
5. FS: 2019-2020 AMSAT Journal (4 issues) (John Geiger)
6. Re: Who Let THIS Info Out? (Bruce Perens)
7. Re: Who Let THIS Info Out? (Bruce Perens)
8. Re: Who Let THIS Info Out? (73 Bob W7LRD)
9. Re: Who Let THIS Info Out? (John Brier)
10. Re: Who Let THIS Info Out? (John Brier)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 13:42:39 -0700
From: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
To: Jeff Johns <jeff30339@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Message-ID:
<CAK2MWOvEYDKL5WAYTTRGZGEP9u+PUdLv8mjsTfXibSE=swKOEg@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> I?m glad that they have been transparent
:-)
We need to remain aware of the difference between frankness and
transparency. What we saw was a frank admission of conduct that many of us
found to be an inappropriate means of dealing with opposition.
People also confuse frankness with honesty.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 15:46:14 -0500
From: David Swanson <dave@?????????????.???>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Message-ID:
<CANq+eyWCdek=QxE9ugyizPCH7En6ALupmH_0dn=JOA+Qp+yYEA@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Jeff,
Like Patrick I have no personal beef with you. We've gotten along in the
past, and while I think you're on the wrong side of this current political
divide, I consider our disagreement professional rather than personal.
However your posts in this thread are simply not grounded in reality.
In President Coleman's letter the reason for engaging lawyers was perfectly
clear: Director Stoddard (at the time a volunteer) was accused of harassing
other AMSAT volunteers. Director Thompson (at the time holding no official
position) was running for a BoD position while holding numerous blatant
conflicts of interest. Director Thompson had also just absconded with Slack
license keys that belonged to AMSAT Engineering, hijacked the former AMSAT
Facebook group by removing administrator privileges of other directors and
volunteers, and accused directors and volunteers of harassment. Director
Thompson and Director Stoddard ran in 2019 on a platform of 'Screw ITAR,
Screw NDAs' - which is a paradigm shift in the way AMSAT has always done
business, and would likely directly impact the ability of AMSAT to work
with launch partners. Bruce Perens (holding no position at all) made
numerous legal threats on Twitter towards volunteers and directors while
supporting Director Thompson and Director Stoddard in the 2019 election.
And the list goes on, and on, and on.
The point isn't about who hired a lawyer first, it's who picked the fight
first. The current scenario of hostility and threats we find ourselves in
is 100% the fault of Director Thompson, Director Stoddard, and their
surrogates. The action taken by the AMSAT directorship to secure legal
counsel is unambiguously a defensive tactic, and was long overdue, for all
of these I've listed and more. When I first found out AMSAT had hired
lawyers to deal with the hostile parties my first reaction was 'Bout dang
time'.
-Dave, KG5CCI
On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 3:19 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
> Joseph, you most certainly have the right to your opinion just like
> everyone else does. As I stated, the President admitted in his letter to
> the membership that lawyers were hired in an attempt to shut-out Michelle
> and Patrick. This is a fact. These lawyers were hired in violation of
> bylaws. This is a fact. I feel quite certain that anyone who had that
> happen to them would feel the need to defend themselves which is what
> Michelle and Patrick did. Are you saying that, as Directors, they shouldn?t
> have let us, the members know what was occurring? Why should they just stay
> quiet while bylaws and Washington DC corporate code were broken?
>
> I?m glad that they have been transparent and have exposed what so many of
> us suspected was occurring within the clubhouse. The legacy incumbents do
> treat it as their clubhouse. Many members feel that way as I also receive
> ?off the list? emails.
>
> There is quite a division within AMSAT right now. That?s obvious. This
> division seems to stem from the way legacy Directors have been
> managing/mismanaging the organization. Because of this, many members have
> become disillusioned and upset. Some not renewing memberships. Some no
> longer donating. Many members feel that AMSAT has fallen behind others in
> our quest to keep amateur radio in space. Because of this, several of us
> have decided to run for a spot on the Board. No doubt all of us running
> will receive some votes. Some more than others but whomever wins they will
> need to realize that there will be those with opposing views. Howie, Bob
> and I are willing to listen to the opposition and consider their views.
> Obviously they legacy BoDs aren?t because they hired legal counsel in an
> attempt to shut out Michelle and Patrick.
>
> We need this cloud removed from AMSAT. As long as the legacy BoD members
> maintain power, the cloud will remain. Can you imagine what donors must be
> thinking when they have seen the reports (validated by the President?s
> letter) of misspending? Remember, the first letter the President published
> stated that ?AMSAT denies false allegations?. The President did NOT say the
> allegations were false. It was semantics and when he figured out that a lot
> of members knew this he attempted to fix this with a second later but, once
> again, never denied the allegations. This is what has brought the dark
> cloud to AMSAT. If there was no fire, there would be no smoke to form the
> cloud over AMSAT. The fire must be extinguished. This can easily be done by
> electing me, Howie and Bob.
>
> Once again, I appreciate the volunteer work you do and appreciate your
> opinion. All I ask is that you also respect the opinions of others. Trust
> me, there are a lot of people who have different views about the BoDs than
> you do. Have a great weekend, it looks to be a nice one here which means it
> will be great weather for going outside and making satellite QSOs.
>
> Jeff WE4B
> http://we4bravo.com
>
> > On Aug 7, 2020, at 2:17 PM, Joseph Armbruster <
> josepharmbruster@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> > ?
> > Jeff,
> >
> > Based on the responses that I have received off the list, I really don't
> think that's the case by any stretch of the imagination. Falsely
> representing AMSATs relationships with other organizations is not going to
> benefit AMSAT (or the individuals if they decide do go elsewhere) And, if
> you look at some of the individuals who have made an effort to chime-in on
> the -bb and then look at the -bb history to see how often those specific
> individuals take their time to do so... that says something. The reality
> is, AMSAT has good relationships.
> >
> > I'm not going to play this whole old-guard, new-guard game, because it
> goes against everything my prefrontal cortex tells me to do, but at the
> same time I am also not going to stand by and remain silent while the
> 'old-guard' is badgered, until someone gives me a good, technical reason to
> do so. So-far, from the -bb, i've learned that Bruce Perens made it 26
> letters easier to pass an FCC exam (high five) and Michelle and Patrick are
> busy stirring up legal issues for AMSAT. All I can say about that is,
> AMSAT never needed to hire an attorney against me personally or anyone else
> that I have known since 2008... That says something. Oh, not just me, but
> tons of other people. People who built stuff, worked late, got angry at
> each other, kicked, screamed, almost had our fingers cut off, burnt, eyes
> almost poked out, etc... but, still seemed to have fun and get stuff done.
> I will say this, from what I have seen of Patrick and Michelle (-bb and
> other observations), they seem like extremely involved people and appear to
> have a substantial amount of time on their hands to coordinate. Patrick
> seems like he's done tons from an outreach standpoint and Michelle seems
> like she'd be a wonderful PR kinda person. But based on the legal letter
> being propagated to the -bb and other comments out there, their place is
> absolutely not on the board. I think I met Michelle once at the Baltimore
> or Orlando symposium, i'm not entirely sure, maybe she remembers. From a
> practical standpoint though, I think everyone has a place and could
> positively contribute to the group, but the way this is being done is not
> right to me. This "fight against the old guard" is entirely fabricated and
> appears to be created for political purposes and unfortunately, it's
> damaging.
> >
> > With respects to the public council letter sent to the -bb, that just
> shows that for whatever reasons, they are unable to handle issues behind
> closed doors. Handling issues like this should be done professionally to
> preserve the integrity of the organization. That is a huge issue for me.
> It's obviously being done more for political pandering / show than for
> substance, hence the posting to the bb in the first place... And yes, you
> can say blah-blah-blah about bylaws and claim whatever you want about the
> 'rule of law' and whatever.... but, laws are there for a reason and think
> for a minute about how many other AMSAT members and engineers have
> contributed, helped out and never put AMSAT through any legal issues or
> threats, for anything... This is all unfair and not something I want to
> see individuals on the board doing. I want to see the engineering stack
> taken to the next level. A pile of work went into developing the stack
> that went into suitsat/arissat/fox/etc... none of that should be taken for
> granted and that level of effort should not be diminished. Oh, and lots of
> those in the 'old-guard' made that happen... but that's always conveniently
> left out. It seems like everything that's politically been going on since
> 2018 has been counter to making AMSAT productive, at least politically.
> Jeff, I don't really trust anyone you are recommending. Trust is extremely
> important to me. People do not trust groups... they trust individuals.
> And, trust is earned, on an individual basis, not demanded through legal
> council letters. If you can't get a BOD to work with you, you're the
> problem. Just imagine what will happen with external groups. Are they
> going to get threatened with a legal council letter too?
> >
> > Remember, a loose cannon can point every direction.
> >
> > Joseph Armbruster
> > KJ4JIO
> >
> >
> >> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 12:35 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >>
> >> > and some use that as a method/means of intimidation or
> >> > suppression of speech.
> >>
> >> As admitted by the President in his infamous letter, it was legacy,
> incumbent BoDs that were the first to seek legal advice by conspiring to
> shut-out Michelle and Patrick in a manner which goes against AMSAT bylaws.
> Do you not think that Michelle and Patrick had the right to defend
> themselves against this action? Not only were they defending themselves,
> they were defending the bylaws of the Corporation. We need more BoDs like
> them that are willing to standup to the old guard and meet their bullying
> with equal action. Sadly, many AMSAT members know they will be made a
> target if they speak out against the old guard or have new ideas and
> opinions. This must change or we will only have more of the same. I don?t
> see Michelle or Patrick ?running off? any volunteers. In reality, they are
> trying to change the culture of AMSAT and make it more welcoming for ALL
> volunteers, not just those that are blessed by the old guard. To help
> continue this work of change that Michelle and Patrick have started members
> can vote for me, Bob and Howie. Otherwise, we will end-up with the same
> old, same old and the same culture of cliquish behavior by legacy
> incumbents.
> >>
> >> Jeff WE4B
> >> http://we4bravo.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 17:04:52 -0400
From: Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster@?????.???>
To: Jeff Johns <jeff30339@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Message-ID:
<CADkz4c9q9Vrm17wkgbFAA1JRBrgmAdXz+hGwKAgp-n9=KrhhsA@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Jeff,
You claim they were shutting people out but I run my own business and know
how meetings can go and people can be. And you're not going to pull that
one on me... It could have easily been that someone said something in that
meeting or in some conversation privately, or under-their-breath, to
insinuate that someone would take legal action against AMSAT or some
specific individual. There's No Doubt in my mind, based upon everything
i've heard on the -bb that Something took place.. that no-one is really
being honest about...
This sure makes me wonder, why didn't AMSAT ever do this against me or the
tons of volunteers and engineers before me? You can't tell me this is the
first case of some problem...
Joseph Armbruster
KJ4JIO
On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 4:21 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
> Joseph, you most certainly have the right to your opinion just like
> everyone else does. As I stated, the President admitted in his letter to
> the membership that lawyers were hired in an attempt to shut-out Michelle
> and Patrick. This is a fact. These lawyers were hired in violation of
> bylaws. This is a fact. I feel quite certain that anyone who had that
> happen to them would feel the need to defend themselves which is what
> Michelle and Patrick did. Are you saying that, as Directors, they shouldn?t
> have let us, the members know what was occurring? Why should they just stay
> quiet while bylaws and Washington DC corporate code were broken?
>
> I?m glad that they have been transparent and have exposed what so many of
> us suspected was occurring within the clubhouse. The legacy incumbents do
> treat it as their clubhouse. Many members feel that way as I also receive
> ?off the list? emails.
>
> There is quite a division within AMSAT right now. That?s obvious. This
> division seems to stem from the way legacy Directors have been
> managing/mismanaging the organization. Because of this, many members have
> become disillusioned and upset. Some not renewing memberships. Some no
> longer donating. Many members feel that AMSAT has fallen behind others in
> our quest to keep amateur radio in space. Because of this, several of us
> have decided to run for a spot on the Board. No doubt all of us running
> will receive some votes. Some more than others but whomever wins they will
> need to realize that there will be those with opposing views. Howie, Bob
> and I are willing to listen to the opposition and consider their views.
> Obviously they legacy BoDs aren?t because they hired legal counsel in an
> attempt to shut out Michelle and Patrick.
>
> We need this cloud removed from AMSAT. As long as the legacy BoD members
> maintain power, the cloud will remain. Can you imagine what donors must be
> thinking when they have seen the reports (validated by the President?s
> letter) of misspending? Remember, the first letter the President published
> stated that ?AMSAT denies false allegations?. The President did NOT say the
> allegations were false. It was semantics and when he figured out that a lot
> of members knew this he attempted to fix this with a second later but, once
> again, never denied the allegations. This is what has brought the dark
> cloud to AMSAT. If there was no fire, there would be no smoke to form the
> cloud over AMSAT. The fire must be extinguished. This can easily be done by
> electing me, Howie and Bob.
>
> Once again, I appreciate the volunteer work you do and appreciate your
> opinion. All I ask is that you also respect the opinions of others. Trust
> me, there are a lot of people who have different views about the BoDs than
> you do. Have a great weekend, it looks to be a nice one here which means it
> will be great weather for going outside and making satellite QSOs.
>
> Jeff WE4B
> http://we4bravo.com
>
> > On Aug 7, 2020, at 2:17 PM, Joseph Armbruster <
> josepharmbruster@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> > ?
> > Jeff,
> >
> > Based on the responses that I have received off the list, I really don't
> think that's the case by any stretch of the imagination. Falsely
> representing AMSATs relationships with other organizations is not going to
> benefit AMSAT (or the individuals if they decide do go elsewhere) And, if
> you look at some of the individuals who have made an effort to chime-in on
> the -bb and then look at the -bb history to see how often those specific
> individuals take their time to do so... that says something. The reality
> is, AMSAT has good relationships.
> >
> > I'm not going to play this whole old-guard, new-guard game, because it
> goes against everything my prefrontal cortex tells me to do, but at the
> same time I am also not going to stand by and remain silent while the
> 'old-guard' is badgered, until someone gives me a good, technical reason to
> do so. So-far, from the -bb, i've learned that Bruce Perens made it 26
> letters easier to pass an FCC exam (high five) and Michelle and Patrick are
> busy stirring up legal issues for AMSAT. All I can say about that is,
> AMSAT never needed to hire an attorney against me personally or anyone else
> that I have known since 2008... That says something. Oh, not just me, but
> tons of other people. People who built stuff, worked late, got angry at
> each other, kicked, screamed, almost had our fingers cut off, burnt, eyes
> almost poked out, etc... but, still seemed to have fun and get stuff done.
> I will say this, from what I have seen of Patrick and Michelle (-bb and
> other observations), they seem like extremely involved people and appear to
> have a substantial amount of time on their hands to coordinate. Patrick
> seems like he's done tons from an outreach standpoint and Michelle seems
> like she'd be a wonderful PR kinda person. But based on the legal letter
> being propagated to the -bb and other comments out there, their place is
> absolutely not on the board. I think I met Michelle once at the Baltimore
> or Orlando symposium, i'm not entirely sure, maybe she remembers. From a
> practical standpoint though, I think everyone has a place and could
> positively contribute to the group, but the way this is being done is not
> right to me. This "fight against the old guard" is entirely fabricated and
> appears to be created for political purposes and unfortunately, it's
> damaging.
> >
> > With respects to the public council letter sent to the -bb, that just
> shows that for whatever reasons, they are unable to handle issues behind
> closed doors. Handling issues like this should be done professionally to
> preserve the integrity of the organization. That is a huge issue for me.
> It's obviously being done more for political pandering / show than for
> substance, hence the posting to the bb in the first place... And yes, you
> can say blah-blah-blah about bylaws and claim whatever you want about the
> 'rule of law' and whatever.... but, laws are there for a reason and think
> for a minute about how many other AMSAT members and engineers have
> contributed, helped out and never put AMSAT through any legal issues or
> threats, for anything... This is all unfair and not something I want to
> see individuals on the board doing. I want to see the engineering stack
> taken to the next level. A pile of work went into developing the stack
> that went into suitsat/arissat/fox/etc... none of that should be taken for
> granted and that level of effort should not be diminished. Oh, and lots of
> those in the 'old-guard' made that happen... but that's always conveniently
> left out. It seems like everything that's politically been going on since
> 2018 has been counter to making AMSAT productive, at least politically.
> Jeff, I don't really trust anyone you are recommending. Trust is extremely
> important to me. People do not trust groups... they trust individuals.
> And, trust is earned, on an individual basis, not demanded through legal
> council letters. If you can't get a BOD to work with you, you're the
> problem. Just imagine what will happen with external groups. Are they
> going to get threatened with a legal council letter too?
> >
> > Remember, a loose cannon can point every direction.
> >
> > Joseph Armbruster
> > KJ4JIO
> >
> >
> >> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 12:35 PM Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >>
> >> > and some use that as a method/means of intimidation or
> >> > suppression of speech.
> >>
> >> As admitted by the President in his infamous letter, it was legacy,
> incumbent BoDs that were the first to seek legal advice by conspiring to
> shut-out Michelle and Patrick in a manner which goes against AMSAT bylaws.
> Do you not think that Michelle and Patrick had the right to defend
> themselves against this action? Not only were they defending themselves,
> they were defending the bylaws of the Corporation. We need more BoDs like
> them that are willing to standup to the old guard and meet their bullying
> with equal action. Sadly, many AMSAT members know they will be made a
> target if they speak out against the old guard or have new ideas and
> opinions. This must change or we will only have more of the same. I don?t
> see Michelle or Patrick ?running off? any volunteers. In reality, they are
> trying to change the culture of AMSAT and make it more welcoming for ALL
> volunteers, not just those that are blessed by the old guard. To help
> continue this work of change that Michelle and Patrick have started members
> can vote for me, Bob and Howie. Otherwise, we will end-up with the same
> old, same old and the same culture of cliquish behavior by legacy
> incumbents.
> >>
> >> Jeff WE4B
> >> http://we4bravo.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2020 16:04:16 -0600
From: "Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL" <vlfiscus@???.???>
To: Amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: [amsat-bb] FT-736 power supply part.
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20200807155811.021234e8@???.?????????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Hi All,
I walked into the shack about a month ago and smelled something
really hot like the smell from a hot resistor. Turned off all
the equipment waited a while then turned everything back on.
The FT-736 didn't come back on, so I assumed the power supply,
as this is a common problem with the rigs as they get older.
Bought a repair replacement kit for the electrolytic caps
in the power supply, which is normally the problem. They get
baked and fail.
Got the power supply out last night to do the repairs and
I discovered it was the SCR in the power supply that had
totally burned up. Weird.
Does anyone here have or know a Digi-key or Mouser part
number for the SCR or an equivalent compatible part?
It labeled SCR21 on P.C. board.
Thanks
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 16:18:25 -0500
From: John Geiger <af5cc2@?????.???>
To: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] FS: 2019-2020 AMSAT Journal (4 issues)
Message-ID:
<CAHC1P29h9Jphsguap7FhCY=m1AEs--Oth5GsYPCPFepe0ZcWrA@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I have for sale 4 issues of the AMSAT journal from 2019-2020, which
include the July/August 2019, September/October 2019, November/December
2019, and January/February 2020 issues. These are all in good condition and
contain lots of good information about the satellites and amateur radio in
space. I am asking $12 shipped for the set and can take paypal/check/MO.
73 John AF5CC
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 14:32:39 -0700
From: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
To: David Swanson <dave@?????????????.???>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Message-ID:
<CAK2MWOtxpwxw7jCkgp4RUDodn-0d+ReQqjFB29J+OLDJnWEAuA@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I made "numerous legal threats"? I don't think so.
Given what a tremendous whopper that one is, I can't attach any credibility
to the rest of your statement, except for one thing:
It is true that Michelle and Patrick, and for that matter I, feel that
AMSAT's NDAs prevent it from being able to achieve a workable ITAR strategy.
You simply can't use the ITAR 120.11 and EAR 734.7 carve-outs AND have
secret or proprietary portions of any technology listed under the United
States Munitions List. Once there is secret or proprietary technology, all
of the nasty restrictions of ITAR are unavoidable.
It is possible to deal with secrets outside of the technology, such as
launch schedules, and it is possible to compartmentalize some
ITAR-protected information, for example technology specific to the launch
which is not necessary for broader cooperations such as designing and
constructing a satellite.
Thus it is necessary for AMSAT to examine all existing NDAs, separate
itself from ones that are no longer necessary, and carefully
compartmentalize any which need to stand for the moment. Michelle and
Patrick attempted to initiate this process, but have been blocked.
Thanks
Bruce
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 14:42:43 -0700
From: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
To: Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Message-ID:
<CAK2MWOu1xTp7W=K0kfmwd8FYzzGbqWDr5voAtk8m3Y447SDCKA@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 2:11 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> This sure makes me wonder, why didn't AMSAT ever do this against me or the
> tons of volunteers and engineers before me? You can't tell me this is the
> first case of some problem...
>
Joseph,
And no police officer ever kneeled on _your_ neck, or your friends, so it
must be the Black person's problem, right?
It's the exact same argument.
There has been no shortage of conflict between AMSAT management and
volunteers. I have a long list of people whom I know were the major
developers of previous AMSAT missions, who we don't see here any longer.
As I said previously, no one hired lawyers against you because you did not
act as opposition to the incumbent board.
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 14:58:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: 73 Bob W7LRD <w7lrd@???????.???>
To: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>, Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???>, Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Message-ID: <672841887.59587.1596837516845@???????.???????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
This is circular firing squad
73 Bob W7LRD
> On 08/07/2020 2:42 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 2:11 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> >
> > This sure makes me wonder, why didn't AMSAT ever do this against me or the
> > tons of volunteers and engineers before me? You can't tell me this is the
> > first case of some problem...
> >
>
> Joseph,
>
> And no police officer ever kneeled on _your_ neck, or your friends, so it
> must be the Black person's problem, right?
>
> It's the exact same argument.
>
> There has been no shortage of conflict between AMSAT management and
> volunteers. I have a long list of people whom I know were the major
> developers of previous AMSAT missions, who we don't see here any longer.
>
> As I said previously, no one hired lawyers against you because you did not
> act as opposition to the incumbent board.
>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 18:01:02 -0400
From: John Brier <johnbrier@?????.???>
To: Bruce Perens <bruce@??????.???>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Message-ID:
<CALn0fKPrFmMiULcHmCEo3=ziBrn-9XN1e996FR=9eMDOuBeD5w@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Joseph,
I think what Bruce pointed out is another example of you refusing to see
even a spec of validity in the arguments you resist.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 17:44 Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 2:11 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> >
> > This sure makes me wonder, why didn't AMSAT ever do this against me or
> the
> > tons of volunteers and engineers before me? You can't tell me this is
> the
> > first case of some problem...
> >
>
> Joseph,
>
> And no police officer ever kneeled on _your_ neck, or your friends, so it
> must be the Black person's problem, right?
>
> It's the exact same argument.
>
> There has been no shortage of conflict between AMSAT management and
> volunteers. I have a long list of people whom I know were the major
> developers of previous AMSAT missions, who we don't see here any longer.
>
> As I said previously, no one hired lawyers against you because you did not
> act as opposition to the incumbent board.
>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 18:03:03 -0400
From: John Brier <johnbrier@?????.???>
To: 73 Bob W7LRD <w7lrd@???????.???>
Cc: Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Who Let THIS Info Out?
Message-ID:
<CALn0fKMiCGdhVSmEm9s9rLSB_bUc7cZhkzWXZECgjEy+7Kt6=w@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
It is starting to feel that way.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 18:00 73 Bob W7LRD via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
> This is circular firing squad
> 73 Bob W7LRD
> > On 08/07/2020 2:42 PM Bruce Perens via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 2:11 PM Joseph Armbruster via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > This sure makes me wonder, why didn't AMSAT ever do this against me or
> the
> > > tons of volunteers and engineers before me? You can't tell me this is
> the
> > > first case of some problem...
> > >
> >
> > Joseph,
> >
> > And no police officer ever kneeled on _your_ neck, or your friends, so it
> > must be the Black person's problem, right?
> >
> > It's the exact same argument.
> >
> > There has been no shortage of conflict between AMSAT management and
> > volunteers. I have a long list of people whom I know were the major
> > developers of previous AMSAT missions, who we don't see here any longer.
> >
> > As I said previously, no one hired lawyers against you because you did
> not
> > act as opposition to the incumbent board.
> >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 15, Issue 323
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