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CX2SA > SATDIG 09.04.16 06:57l 1037 Lines 42737 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Dragon Underway To ISS (B J)
2. Re: Satellites and Solar (a) (jmfranke@xxx.xxxx
3. Re: Satellites and Solar (a) (Jim Sanford)
4. Re: AO-7 MODE A ! (R.T.Liddy)
5. ISS SSTV Event April 11th - 14/15th (John Brier)
6. Re: Satellites and Solar (Robert Bruninga)
7. HORYU-4, DigiSinger today (Mineo Wakita)
8. Re: Satellites and Solar (Stephen Nelson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 21:15:00 +0000
From: B J <va6bmj@xxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Dragon Underway To ISS
Message-ID:
<CAP7QzkMgNhk=J9uUNjjJrv+7bwdA8wKwo1BxHDaJTcj9g=EUCw@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
It was a smooth launch and the spacecraft's photovoltaic arrays have
been deployed. The first stage made a safe touchdown on its recovery
barge even though there were some whitecaps on the waves.
73s
Bernhard VA6BMJ @ DO33FL
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 17:31:21 -0400
From: <jmfranke@xxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx Robert Bruninga <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Satellites and Solar (a)
Message-ID: <20160408173121.S6MF2.63087.imail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
And the price of commercial electricity will go up because the power
companies will still have to support the infrastructure to supply the full
load at night or during cloudy weather yet have it sitting idle when as they
say "The Sun is shining."
John WA4WDL
---- Robert Bruninga <bruninga@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
> > Talking solar with my non Ham friends...
>
> That's a problem, Anything they were sure they knew before, is these days
> almost obsolete a year later. I too had misconceptions all based on my 50
> year ham experience with solar (and batteries) for remote digipeaters,
> etc. My historical background was WRONG on the most basic concepts or
> modern solar..., hence my sounding "born-again! "
>
> That is, FORGET the batteries. The economical revolution in solar is
> grid-tie. Has nothing to do with batteries (and nothing to do with backup
> power). Getting rid of the batteries got rid of half the cost and all the
> lifetime maintenance. It also greatly relaxed the pointing requirements
> and angles... A true revolution. Solar generation now costs less than a
> coal plant. Even the Saudi's are building all new energy as solar. Since
> solar is cheaper than coal or oil, they want to use Solar for all their
> own energy needs because they can save their oil for export where they can
> sell it for higher prices.
>
> > and there is a misconception that solar can be
> > used for emergency power... Solar inverter
> > shuts down once the utility main sense is lost.
>
> Yep, same as always. The backup power issue has nothing to do with
> economical power. Providing emergency power is a totally different
> function and financial problem no different from what you currently do.
> Around here the grid is 99.95% reliable. That means, it goes out on
> average about 4 hours a year. For a 1kW average house load, that is about
> 60 cents of power loss per year.
>
> Adding TEN THOUSAND dollars of "whole house backup battery system" to
> replace that 60 cents of power per year is not economical... Especially
> since 5 years later, you will have to replace all those batteries after
> having only used them maybe 20 hours in 5 years.. No, The answer to
> "backup" is no different whether one has solar or not. One easy way to do
> backup, is the same $200 generator and $6 can of gas one might use now.
>
> Or plug into the 50kW generator in your Hybrid car, or the 24 kWh battery
> in your EV, or maybe $400 worth of marine batteries and a $200 inverter
> form Home depot. All far-far less than a whole house battery system added
> to solar for 60 cents worth of back up power once a year. AND... the
> knowledgible Ham who still has 10kW of DC solar power can always find lots
> of ways to use it even if the grid is down.
>
> See http://aprs.org/alternative-energy.html
>
>
> > I have also heard.. rumors that the panels go bad
> > just after the cost of the system has paid for itself.
>
> Solar panels degrade over time. After 25 years they will have lost 20% of
> their capacity. But, in 25 years I think I can guarantee that one's
> appliances and electric loads will be 20% more efficient. Hence no change
> in life style. Just look at the 4-to-1 drop in power needed for lighting
> in just the last few years.
>
> Anyway, yes, they degrade, but less than 1% per year. But they are still
> producing power. After another 25 years (50 years from now) there will be
> another 20% loss down to 60% of original power.... but in 50 years you'll
> be dead or one probably won't need all the power we waste now. And
> lastly, the cost of 20% more panels to bring your array back up to snuff
> 25 years from now will cost pennies.
>
> Hope that helps. Solar power is cheap, clean power (now costs less than
> coal. Even the Saudi's are going to all new solar power
> Bob, WB4APR
>
> > On Apr 8, 2016, at 9:35 AM, Robert Bruninga <bruninga@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
> >
> > Solar Rant:
> >
> > Last night I gave a talk to a local Ham club about Emergency Power
> > (solar) for the Ham. Turns out, I had given a similar talk on the
> > same topic to the same group 6 years ago (2010).
> >
> > But the world has CHANGED (and most of us (and them) have not.
> > except get older)..
> >
> > I began "How many of you pay about $200/mo for electricity?" Most
> > hands went up
> >
> > "How many of you went solar since my last talk?" (one hand went up).
> > "Why not?" I ask.
> >
> > General response was, ".. it costs too much."
> >
> > I went on, "Do the rest of you with the $200/mo electric bill realize
> > you have spent almost $15,000 to the utility since my last talk, and
> > did not also take the $5000 tax credit, so you have wasted over
> > $20,000 and have absolutely nothing to show for it except another $200
> > a month for the rest of your life, and another $24,000 thrown away
> > every ten years (probably twice that with inflation)."
> >
> > "Don't tell me it costs too much.. It costs too much to do nothing!"
> >
> > "This other solar guy hardly pays anything now, or the last 6 years or
> > the rest of his life!"
> >
> > Most people in the room said they would probably go solar "someday".
> > But now they are starting to realize that every single month they send
> > another $200 to the utility, that is another $200 thrown away.
> > when instead it could have gone for their solar investment which
> > remains EQUITY in their hands, on their roof, or in their yard and which
>
> > pays back over 10% annual return on the investment every year for the
> > rest of their life.
> >
> > Sorry for the rant. Every AMSAT station needs power. Are you going
> > to continue to burn coal to supply your energy and pay the utility
> > forever, at higher cost, or are you going to do something about it now
> > and start getting free power forever and breath cleaner air.
> >
> > See http://aprs.org/solar-now.html
> >
> > AMSAT TOO: I just looked it up. I gave this talk at the AMSAT/TAPR
> > Dayton Banquet in 2011. In the 5 years since, you (with $200 electric
> > bills) have spent over $12,000 in electric bills and have not taken
> > the over $3600 tax credit either. How many more years are you going
> > to throw away good money every month and do nothing?
> >
> > Sorry, if you have shade, you are out of solar luck, but hug your
> > trees and birds instead! In some states, such as Maryland, you can
> > still invest in community solar where your solar panels will be credited
> to your bill.
> >
> > Also in Maryland and some other progressive states, if you have some
> > remote land or antenna farm somewhere else, You can install your
> > solar panels there, and get that electric meter to provide 100% credit
> > to your own home bill. Neat! Its called "virtual-net-metering".
> >
> > It's a whole new world of energy changing under your feet.. Every day..
> >
> > Bob, WB4APR
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 17:51:38 -0400
From: Jim Sanford <wb4gcs@xxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Satellites and Solar (a)
Message-ID: <570827EA.9030704@xxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Every time I think about a battery solar system, I remember just exactly
how much time, money, and effort the submarine force spends on battery
maintenance . . . . . Bob is right on this one.
Long ago solar systems did not last as long as the payback period. (I
did the analysis, in the '80s, and again in the '90s.) Economics have
changed -- DIY systems can be had for around $2/watt, arrays last
longer, and electricity is ever more expensive. If the economy ever
recovers, it will get a lot more expensive, at least until the rotating
blackouts start.
Your biggest obstacle may very well be your local municipality. I know,
because I'm reviewing a proposed new zoning ordinance for the rural
township where I live, and it will make DIY solar virtually illegal, and
commercially installed systems much more expensive.
For emergency power, get a generator. When I lived in VA, the
performance was like Bob describes, and every time I wanted a generator,
I had to ask, "How many times have you been without power for how long?"
and didn't.
Where I live now (rural, so I can have a tower and antennas) outages are
frequent and extended (days) so a natural gas whole-house generator made
sense. Went for several years with a "portable" generator (used at
Field Day) manually connected when needed.
Grid reliability may be changing -- have a friend who lives in Northern
VA who got tired of frequent outages long enough to ruin the food so
they put in a 25KW whole-house natural gas unit.
Good luck!
73,
Jim
wb4gcs@xxxxx.xxx
On 4/8/2016 4:23 PM, Robert Bruninga wrote:
>> Talking solar with my non Ham friends...
> That's a problem, Anything they were sure they knew before, is these days
> almost obsolete a year later. I too had misconceptions all based on my 50
> year ham experience with solar (and batteries) for remote digipeaters,
> etc. My historical background was WRONG on the most basic concepts or
> modern solar..., hence my sounding "born-again! "
>
> That is, FORGET the batteries. The economical revolution in solar is
> grid-tie. Has nothing to do with batteries (and nothing to do with backup
> power). Getting rid of the batteries got rid of half the cost and all the
> lifetime maintenance. It also greatly relaxed the pointing requirements
> and angles... A true revolution. Solar generation now costs less than a
> coal plant. Even the Saudi's are building all new energy as solar. Since
> solar is cheaper than coal or oil, they want to use Solar for all their
> own energy needs because they can save their oil for export where they can
> sell it for higher prices.
>
>> and there is a misconception that solar can be
>> used for emergency power... Solar inverter
>> shuts down once the utility main sense is lost.
> Yep, same as always. The backup power issue has nothing to do with
> economical power. Providing emergency power is a totally different
> function and financial problem no different from what you currently do.
> Around here the grid is 99.95% reliable. That means, it goes out on
> average about 4 hours a year. For a 1kW average house load, that is about
> 60 cents of power loss per year.
>
> Adding TEN THOUSAND dollars of "whole house backup battery system" to
> replace that 60 cents of power per year is not economical... Especially
> since 5 years later, you will have to replace all those batteries after
> having only used them maybe 20 hours in 5 years.. No, The answer to
> "backup" is no different whether one has solar or not. One easy way to do
> backup, is the same $200 generator and $6 can of gas one might use now.
>
> Or plug into the 50kW generator in your Hybrid car, or the 24 kWh battery
> in your EV, or maybe $400 worth of marine batteries and a $200 inverter
> form Home depot. All far-far less than a whole house battery system added
> to solar for 60 cents worth of back up power once a year. AND... the
> knowledgible Ham who still has 10kW of DC solar power can always find lots
> of ways to use it even if the grid is down.
>
> See http://aprs.org/alternative-energy.html
>
>
>> I have also heard.. rumors that the panels go bad
>> just after the cost of the system has paid for itself.
> Solar panels degrade over time. After 25 years they will have lost 20% of
> their capacity. But, in 25 years I think I can guarantee that one's
> appliances and electric loads will be 20% more efficient. Hence no change
> in life style. Just look at the 4-to-1 drop in power needed for lighting
> in just the last few years.
>
> Anyway, yes, they degrade, but less than 1% per year. But they are still
> producing power. After another 25 years (50 years from now) there will be
> another 20% loss down to 60% of original power.... but in 50 years you'll
> be dead or one probably won't need all the power we waste now. And
> lastly, the cost of 20% more panels to bring your array back up to snuff
> 25 years from now will cost pennies.
>
> Hope that helps. Solar power is cheap, clean power (now costs less than
> coal. Even the Saudi's are going to all new solar power
> Bob, WB4APR
>
>> On Apr 8, 2016, at 9:35 AM, Robert Bruninga <bruninga@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
>>
>> Solar Rant:
>>
>> Last night I gave a talk to a local Ham club about Emergency Power
>> (solar) for the Ham. Turns out, I had given a similar talk on the
>> same topic to the same group 6 years ago (2010).
>>
>> But the world has CHANGED (and most of us (and them) have not.
>> except get older)..
>>
>> I began "How many of you pay about $200/mo for electricity?" Most
>> hands went up
>>
>> "How many of you went solar since my last talk?" (one hand went up).
>> "Why not?" I ask.
>>
>> General response was, ".. it costs too much."
>>
>> I went on, "Do the rest of you with the $200/mo electric bill realize
>> you have spent almost $15,000 to the utility since my last talk, and
>> did not also take the $5000 tax credit, so you have wasted over
>> $20,000 and have absolutely nothing to show for it except another $200
>> a month for the rest of your life, and another $24,000 thrown away
>> every ten years (probably twice that with inflation)."
>>
>> "Don't tell me it costs too much.. It costs too much to do nothing!"
>>
>> "This other solar guy hardly pays anything now, or the last 6 years or
>> the rest of his life!"
>>
>> Most people in the room said they would probably go solar "someday".
>> But now they are starting to realize that every single month they send
>> another $200 to the utility, that is another $200 thrown away.
>> when instead it could have gone for their solar investment which
>> remains EQUITY in their hands, on their roof, or in their yard and which
>> pays back over 10% annual return on the investment every year for the
>> rest of their life.
>>
>> Sorry for the rant. Every AMSAT station needs power. Are you going
>> to continue to burn coal to supply your energy and pay the utility
>> forever, at higher cost, or are you going to do something about it now
>> and start getting free power forever and breath cleaner air.
>>
>> See http://aprs.org/solar-now.html
>>
>> AMSAT TOO: I just looked it up. I gave this talk at the AMSAT/TAPR
>> Dayton Banquet in 2011. In the 5 years since, you (with $200 electric
>> bills) have spent over $12,000 in electric bills and have not taken
>> the over $3600 tax credit either. How many more years are you going
>> to throw away good money every month and do nothing?
>>
>> Sorry, if you have shade, you are out of solar luck, but hug your
>> trees and birds instead! In some states, such as Maryland, you can
>> still invest in community solar where your solar panels will be credited
> to your bill.
>> Also in Maryland and some other progressive states, if you have some
>> remote land or antenna farm somewhere else, You can install your
>> solar panels there, and get that electric meter to provide 100% credit
>> to your own home bill. Neat! Its called "virtual-net-metering".
>>
>> It's a whole new world of energy changing under your feet.. Every day..
>>
>> Bob, WB4APR
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
---
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 21:55:28 +0000 (UTC)
From: "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AO-7 MODE A !
Message-ID:
<1020104338.1991087.1460152528233.JavaMail.yahoo@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Jeff (Call????),
Yes, it's a fun Mode that has been abandoned for newerand more complicated
ones. I long for the days of theRS Satellites that were excellent on Mode A
that couldbe worked with simple radio sand antennas that mostHams already
had at their station.
73, ? ? Bob K8BL
From: jeffory broughton <jefforybroughton@xxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Sent: Friday, April 8, 2016 9:34 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-7 MODE A !
What a nice suprise to find Oscar 7 in mode A this morning at 1300 utc.It
was a max El pass of 4.8 degrees for me in central Michigan, but I was able
to hear my 10m downlink from AOS to LOS.
What fun !
jeff broughton
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 18:05:47 -0400
From: John Brier <johnbrier@xxxxx.xxx>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS SSTV Event April 11th - 14/15th
Message-ID:
<CALn0fKNnOjdGS1cebTkow4njZ45kf+nP18JjGJO0_=tUKSfA+g@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
@xxxxxxxx tweeted this earlier today:
http://ariss-sstv.blogspot.com/2016/04/ariss-commemorative-event-april-11-14.h
tml
"ARISS commemorative event (April 11-14)
Looks like all the pieces are starting to fall into place for the long
awaited SSTV event. The schedule is shaping up to look like this:
Setup and activation on April 11 about 18:25 UTC.
Paused April 12 from 12:15 until 14:15 UTC to allow for a school
contact with Romania.
Paused April 13 from 12:45 until 14:30 UTC to allow for a school
contact with Argentina.
Deactivation on April 14 at 11:35 UTC.
This opportunity should cover most of the world during the operational
period.The image transmissions should be on 145.800 MHz and the mode
is planned to be PD180.
In addition, MAI-75 will be conducting two sessions afterwards. The
first one is April 14 from 14:45 until 18:00 UTC. The second session
is on April 15 from 14:10 until 19:00 UTC. These times do not cross N.
America but will provide opportunities for Europe, Southeast Asia,
Australia and S. America.
As always, all operations aboard the ISS are subject to change and
everyone interested in this activity should be vigilant and patient."
I have an "ISS SSTV Reception Hints" webpage which may help:
https://spacecomms.wordpress.com/iss-sstv-reception-hints/
Also I just made a PD180 test recording:
https://youtu.be/fGBmUTESnC8
https://soundcloud.com/spacecomms/pd180-sstv-test-recording
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cgp5gtkzjdvm0m3/Space_Comms_PD180_SSTV_Test_Recordin
g.mp3?dl=0
Good luck and 73!
John KG4AKV
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 19:04:01 -0400
From: Robert Bruninga <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>
To: Norm n3ykf <normanlizeth@xxxxx.xxx>, Stephen Nelson
<steve.motorola.uranium@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Satellites and Solar
Message-ID: <4e97e7fff3c4074549b933d2e9fcb17d@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> Newer grid-tie inverters allow for AC power (1.5 kW per inverter)
> to be drawn without primary power.
True. And the newer models from SMA with the built-in 15 amp grid-down
inverter cost $60 LESS than their previous model of the same 3 kW wattage
without the backup (and weighs 30 lbs less!)
http://sunelec.com/inverters/inverters-grid-tie/string/sunny-boy-3000tl-us-22-
transformerless-grid-tie-inverter.html
http://sunelec.com/inverters/inverters-grid-tie/string/sunny-boy-3000w-inverte
r.html
But even when the grid goes down, you still have all that DC power from
dozens of solar panels operating at 30VDC each usually connected in series.
So, my Armageddon plan is to just tap into my 14 pannel array at the 300
volt point (10 panels) and these days, 300 VDC will power almost every
modern electronics piece of equipment AS IS.
Just look at your laptop, cell charger, TV, stereo, PC, and most every
plugin supply and you will see most have universal supplies operating from
100-to-240VAC and if it is lightweight (has no 60 Hz heavy iron transformer)
by definition, that means it is actually a DC/DC switching power supply that
can run just as well on DC as AC, since all they do is first rectify to DC
before doing all their switching magic. I have plugged in every such supply
and device into the 200 VDC of my preius battery and ALL work just fine.
In fact, I did a recent test of a half dozen laptop type plug in supplies
and they all worked down below 70 volts DC input! Amazing supplies able to
deliver full rated output with ANY input from 70 VDC to 330 VDC and 100 VAC
to 240 VAC and not know the difference!
Remember, a full wave rectified 240 VAC source becomes 330 VDC at the first
input capacitor and that is why ANY DC from around 100 volts to over 300 VDC
can be used as is on any of these supplies. And you can distribute almost
TEN TIMES the power at 300 VDC than at 100 V AC because the current is 1/3rd
and hence the I-squared- wire loses are 1/9th over the same wire.
CAUTION: Although it is trivial, it is also dangerous if you don?t
understand what you are doing. Do not do this at home. A few cautions:
1) MOST of what you really need in a power outage WILL NOT RUN on DC.
Furnace, refrigerator, well pump, anything with a 60 Hz motor or transformer
2) Unless you add a snubber circuit to EVERY SWITCH in every device, you
will destroy the switch the first time you try to turn the device off on DC.
You cannot open a circuit with DC, because the arc will just keep flowing
and melt/burn everything in reach. Including your house.
4) NEC requires ALL in-house DC wiring over 50v or so to be in METAL CONDUIT
for this reason.
5) Workaround is to UNPLUG quickly and be amazed at the large Arc-Flash.
6) Shock hazard
SOoooo... here is my safe suggestion. Keep your eyes open for BODACIOUS
surplus DC/DC power supplies from server racks and anything else with huge
power supplies. At last night's radio club, a guy showed me one the size of
a cigar box that was not only 100Amps at 5 volts but also 30 amps at 12v.
And its input was the universal 100-240VAC. Meaning it would run perfectly
fine on 300 VDC from my solar array tap. In fact your modern shack DC/DC
supply of 25A at 12 v will run from the 100-330 VDC input.
Then hook this to a 12v battery to provide some surge capacity and then hook
it to a 1500W standard 12v-to-120 VAC 60 cycle inverter from any store
(about $150). Bingo, you have 1500W AC with the grid down for $150 (and
the big DC/DC suppl you found at the last Hamfest to give you the 12 vdc at
high amperage from the HV DC at low amperage from your array..
Oh, also, EVERY HYBRID car (now there are 60 on the market) also has a
similar 100 AMP at 12v DC/DC supply to power the accessories in the car from
the 200 to 400 VDC car hybrid battery. Get one of these from a junk yard,
and there too is a huge source of high power, high voltage DDC/DC supply
that can then run conventional 12v-to-120 VAC 60 hz inverters.
The ten panel tap at the 300v point in an 8 amps string can supply over 2400
W continuous power to this arrangement. Use two supplies and two inverters
to make full use of this string.
SO again, just because the grid goes down does not mean your solar array
stops producing. It just means it stops producing grid-tie-energy. You
still have all that DC to do all kinds of things with... including
converting back to AC off grid and/or burning your house down through stupid
tricks.
Bob, WB4APR
On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Stephen Nelson
<steve.motorola.uranium@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Talking solar with my non Ham friends and there is a misconception that
> solar can be used for emergency power, which at least in my area, it
> cannot be. Solar inverter shuts down once the utility main sense is lost.
>
> I have also heard strange rumors that the panels go bad just after the
> cost of the system has paid for itself. This might be a wives tail, as
> remote sites I have seen, the solar panels last much longer than 10 years.
>
> Sent via iPhone 5s.....73's KD6VEX
>
> Stephen N.
>
>> On Apr 8, 2016, at 9:35 AM, Robert Bruninga <bruninga@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
>>
>> Solar Rant:
>>
>>
>>
>> Last night I gave a talk to a local Ham club about Emergency Power
>> (solar) for the Ham. Turns out, I had given a similar talk on the
>> same topic to the same group 6 years ago (2010).
>>
>>
>>
>> But the world has CHANGED (and most of us (and them) have not? except
>> get older)..
>>
>>
>>
>> I began ?How many of you pay about $200/mo for electricity?? Most
>> hands went up
>>
>>
>>
>> ?How many of you went solar since my last talk?? (one hand went up).
>> ?Why not?? I ask.
>>
>>
>>
>> General response was, ?.. it costs too much??
>>
>>
>>
>> I went on, ?Do the rest of you with the $200/mo electric bill realize
>> you have spent almost $15,000 to the utility since my last talk, and
>> did not also take the $5000 tax credit, so you have wasted over
>> $20,000 and have absolutely nothing to show for it except another
>> $200 a month for the rest of your life, and another $24,000 thrown
>> away every ten years (probably twice that with inflation)??
>>
>>
>>
>> ?Don?t tell me it costs too much?. It costs too much to do nothing!?
>>
>> ?This other solar guy hardly pays anything now, or the last 6 years
>> or the rest of his life!?
>>
>>
>>
>> Most people in the room said they would probably go solar ?someday?.
>> But now they are starting to realize that every single month they
>> send another
>> $200 to the utility, that is another $200 thrown away? when instead
>> it could have gone for their solar investment which remains EQUITY in
>> their hands, on their roof, or in their yard and which pays back over
>> 10% annual return on the investment every year for the rest of their
>> life.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry for the rant. Every AMSAT station needs power. Are you going
>> to continue to burn coal to supply your energy and pay the utility
>> forever, at higher cost, or are you going to do something about it
>> now and start getting free power forever and breath cleaner air.
>>
>>
>>
>> See http://aprs.org/solar-now.html
>>
>>
>>
>> AMSAT TOO: I just looked it up. I gave this talk at the AMSAT/TAPR
>> Dayton Banquet in 2011. In the 5 years since, you (with $200
>> electric bills) have spent over $12,000 in electric bills and have
>> not taken the over $3600 tax credit either. How many more years are
>> you going to throw away good money every month and do nothing?
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry, if you have shade, you are out of solar luck, but hug your
>> trees and birds instead! In some states, such as Maryland, you can
>> still invest in community solar where your solar panels will be credited
>> to your bill.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also in Maryland and some other progressive states, if you have some
>> remote land or antenna farm somewhere else, You can install your
>> solar panels there, and get that electric meter to provide 100%
>> credit to your own home bill. Neat! Its called ?virtual-net-metering?.
>>
>>
>>
>> It?s a whole new world of energy changing under your feet?. Every day..
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob, WB4APR
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
>> official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
> official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 10:20:21 +0900
From: "Mineo Wakita" <ei7m-wkt@xxxxxxxxx.xx.xx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] HORYU-4, DigiSinger today
Message-ID: <2149CA6484734EC0BE9AA11633EC4A34@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-2022-jp";
reply-type=original
Perhaps I think that the ground station transmit
the command to the satellite only over Japan.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/hamradio/je9pel/hordigsi.htm
JE9PEL, Mineo Wakita
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 21:44:32 -0700
From: Stephen Nelson <steve.motorola.uranium@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Robert Bruninga <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Satellites and Solar
Message-ID:
<CALsCOXEgwHWhR5yJvS4yfmeCQA4MRxkkM-795QCPf69pdX2c1w@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Since we are "poor", we do not have solar.... or a house, only an
apartment.
The plan we have is to use a Honda inverter type generator, supplying a
2.2kW APC UPS rack unit which has all the toys plugged into that shuts off
the computer automatically when the batteries get below a threshold. That
gives me ~40 mins to change over to the generator if I am home, or start
the generator when I get home if needed, for radios and fridge. Batteries
are not super expensive when bought online. I get mine from here,
http://www.tempestbatteries.com/. This is not to run the house, just take
the slack between switch over if I am at home for sensitive equipment, or
from surge issues from high winds, which we have here...and no... the
fridge is not on the UPS.
I have pushed a similar design at our radio sites, because there is a small
amount of time which site generators start and the UPS do wonders to take
up the slack between power loss, and when the generator fully up and switch
over. Computers, POE devices like microwave links, AIS receivers, etc, do
not like small brownouts and get "confused' which usually resulted in a
drive to the site for a power reset.
Love the apocalypse ideas...and never thought to feed switchers 300V DC
before, but that makes sense, and a darn good idea. For myself, high
voltage DC is the last thing I would want to play with in an emergency.
-Stephen N.
KD6VEX
On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 4:04 PM, Robert Bruninga <bruninga@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
> > Newer grid-tie inverters allow for AC power (1.5 kW per inverter)
> > to be drawn without primary power.
>
> True. And the newer models from SMA with the built-in 15 amp grid-down
> inverter cost $60 LESS than their previous model of the same 3 kW wattage
> without the backup (and weighs 30 lbs less!)
>
>
>
http://sunelec.com/inverters/inverters-grid-tie/string/sunny-boy-3000tl-us-22-
transformerless-grid-tie-inverter.html
>
>
>
http://sunelec.com/inverters/inverters-grid-tie/string/sunny-boy-3000w-inverte
r.html
>
> But even when the grid goes down, you still have all that DC power from
> dozens of solar panels operating at 30VDC each usually connected in series.
> So, my Armageddon plan is to just tap into my 14 pannel array at the 300
> volt point (10 panels) and these days, 300 VDC will power almost every
> modern electronics piece of equipment AS IS.
>
> Just look at your laptop, cell charger, TV, stereo, PC, and most every
> plugin supply and you will see most have universal supplies operating from
> 100-to-240VAC and if it is lightweight (has no 60 Hz heavy iron
> transformer)
> by definition, that means it is actually a DC/DC switching power supply
> that
> can run just as well on DC as AC, since all they do is first rectify to DC
> before doing all their switching magic. I have plugged in every such
> supply
> and device into the 200 VDC of my preius battery and ALL work just fine.
>
> In fact, I did a recent test of a half dozen laptop type plug in supplies
> and they all worked down below 70 volts DC input! Amazing supplies able to
> deliver full rated output with ANY input from 70 VDC to 330 VDC and 100 VAC
> to 240 VAC and not know the difference!
>
> Remember, a full wave rectified 240 VAC source becomes 330 VDC at the first
> input capacitor and that is why ANY DC from around 100 volts to over 300
> VDC
> can be used as is on any of these supplies. And you can distribute
> almost
> TEN TIMES the power at 300 VDC than at 100 V AC because the current is
> 1/3rd
> and hence the I-squared- wire loses are 1/9th over the same wire.
>
> CAUTION: Although it is trivial, it is also dangerous if you don?t
> understand what you are doing. Do not do this at home. A few cautions:
>
> 1) MOST of what you really need in a power outage WILL NOT RUN on DC.
> Furnace, refrigerator, well pump, anything with a 60 Hz motor or
> transformer
> 2) Unless you add a snubber circuit to EVERY SWITCH in every device, you
> will destroy the switch the first time you try to turn the device off on
> DC.
> You cannot open a circuit with DC, because the arc will just keep flowing
> and melt/burn everything in reach. Including your house.
> 4) NEC requires ALL in-house DC wiring over 50v or so to be in METAL
> CONDUIT
> for this reason.
> 5) Workaround is to UNPLUG quickly and be amazed at the large Arc-Flash.
> 6) Shock hazard
>
> SOoooo... here is my safe suggestion. Keep your eyes open for BODACIOUS
> surplus DC/DC power supplies from server racks and anything else with huge
> power supplies. At last night's radio club, a guy showed me one the size
> of
> a cigar box that was not only 100Amps at 5 volts but also 30 amps at 12v.
> And its input was the universal 100-240VAC. Meaning it would run perfectly
> fine on 300 VDC from my solar array tap. In fact your modern shack DC/DC
> supply of 25A at 12 v will run from the 100-330 VDC input.
>
> Then hook this to a 12v battery to provide some surge capacity and then
> hook
> it to a 1500W standard 12v-to-120 VAC 60 cycle inverter from any store
> (about $150). Bingo, you have 1500W AC with the grid down for $150 (and
> the big DC/DC suppl you found at the last Hamfest to give you the 12 vdc at
> high amperage from the HV DC at low amperage from your array..
>
> Oh, also, EVERY HYBRID car (now there are 60 on the market) also has a
> similar 100 AMP at 12v DC/DC supply to power the accessories in the car
> from
> the 200 to 400 VDC car hybrid battery. Get one of these from a junk yard,
> and there too is a huge source of high power, high voltage DDC/DC supply
> that can then run conventional 12v-to-120 VAC 60 hz inverters.
>
> The ten panel tap at the 300v point in an 8 amps string can supply over
> 2400
> W continuous power to this arrangement. Use two supplies and two inverters
> to make full use of this string.
>
> SO again, just because the grid goes down does not mean your solar array
> stops producing. It just means it stops producing grid-tie-energy. You
> still have all that DC to do all kinds of things with... including
> converting back to AC off grid and/or burning your house down through
> stupid
> tricks.
>
> Bob, WB4APR
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Stephen Nelson
> <steve.motorola.uranium@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> > Talking solar with my non Ham friends and there is a misconception that
> > solar can be used for emergency power, which at least in my area, it
> > cannot be. Solar inverter shuts down once the utility main sense is lost.
> >
> > I have also heard strange rumors that the panels go bad just after the
> > cost of the system has paid for itself. This might be a wives tail, as
> > remote sites I have seen, the solar panels last much longer than 10
> years.
> >
> > Sent via iPhone 5s.....73's KD6VEX
> >
> > Stephen N.
> >
> >> On Apr 8, 2016, at 9:35 AM, Robert Bruninga <bruninga@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
> >>
> >> Solar Rant:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Last night I gave a talk to a local Ham club about Emergency Power
> >> (solar) for the Ham. Turns out, I had given a similar talk on the
> >> same topic to the same group 6 years ago (2010).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> But the world has CHANGED (and most of us (and them) have not? except
> >> get older)..
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I began ?How many of you pay about $200/mo for electricity?? Most
> >> hands went up
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ?How many of you went solar since my last talk?? (one hand went up).
> >> ?Why not?? I ask.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> General response was, ?.. it costs too much??
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I went on, ?Do the rest of you with the $200/mo electric bill realize
> >> you have spent almost $15,000 to the utility since my last talk, and
> >> did not also take the $5000 tax credit, so you have wasted over
> >> $20,000 and have absolutely nothing to show for it except another
> >> $200 a month for the rest of your life, and another $24,000 thrown
> >> away every ten years (probably twice that with inflation)??
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ?Don?t tell me it costs too much?. It costs too much to do nothing!?
> >>
> >> ?This other solar guy hardly pays anything now, or the last 6 years
> >> or the rest of his life!?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Most people in the room said they would probably go solar ?someday?.
> >> But now they are starting to realize that every single month they
> >> send another
> >> $200 to the utility, that is another $200 thrown away? when instead
> >> it could have gone for their solar investment which remains EQUITY in
> >> their hands, on their roof, or in their yard and which pays back over
> >> 10% annual return on the investment every year for the rest of their
> >> life.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sorry for the rant. Every AMSAT station needs power. Are you going
> >> to continue to burn coal to supply your energy and pay the utility
> >> forever, at higher cost, or are you going to do something about it
> >> now and start getting free power forever and breath cleaner air.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> See http://aprs.org/solar-now.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> AMSAT TOO: I just looked it up. I gave this talk at the AMSAT/TAPR
> >> Dayton Banquet in 2011. In the 5 years since, you (with $200
> >> electric bills) have spent over $12,000 in electric bills and have
> >> not taken the over $3600 tax credit either. How many more years are
> >> you going to throw away good money every month and do nothing?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sorry, if you have shade, you are out of solar luck, but hug your
> >> trees and birds instead! In some states, such as Maryland, you can
> >> still invest in community solar where your solar panels will be credited
> >> to your bill.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Also in Maryland and some other progressive states, if you have some
> >> remote land or antenna farm somewhere else, You can install your
> >> solar panels there, and get that electric meter to provide 100%
> >> credit to your own home bill. Neat! Its called ?virtual-net-metering?.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> It?s a whole new world of energy changing under your feet?. Every day..
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Bob, WB4APR
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> >> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
> the
> >> official views of AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >> program!
> >> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> > Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
> > official views of AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
--
Stephen Nelson
???????
??????????
KD6VEX
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 11, Issue 109
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