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CX2SA > SATDIG 19.10.16 22:41l 904 Lines 35423 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: ISS via UISS & AGW Broken (skristof@xxxxxxx.xxxx
2. R: ISS via UISS & AGW Broken (Claudio Ariotti - IK1SLD)
3. repair of G5500 (Jim White)
4. Re: repair of G5500 (Wouter Weggelaar)
5. Re: repair of G5500 (Kelly Keeton)
6. Re: repair of G5500 (Rolf Krogstad)
7. Re: repair of G5500 (Jim White)
8. Rooms Available (Martha)
9. Re: Outernet L-Band Service (Rick Walter)
10. Re: Tracking Non Earth Orbit Spacecraft......how? (Howie DeFelice)
11. VP5/AA4FL LOTW (John Papay)
12. Re: Tracking Non Earth Orbit Spacecraft......how? (Thomas F Davis)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 21:05:40 -0400
From: skristof@xxxxxxx.xxx
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ISS via UISS & AGW Broken
Message-ID: <6a018df3176cb574028dc82ec213ead6@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
This page, from the TAPR website has a link:
http://www.tapr.org/pipermail/aprssig/2015-October/044896.html
I cannot attest to the safety of the site, but TAPR is, of course, a
reputable organization. I don't remember where I downloaded DireWolf
from. It was a while ago.
Hopefully, other AMSAT folks can step up and confirm this site or offer
an alternative.
Steve
On 2016-10-18 20:46, Ted wrote:
> Tnx, Steve. Would you know of a good safe site to download direwolf?
>
> 73, Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On Behalf Of
> skristof@xxxxxxx.xxx
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 5:30 PM
> To: Ted
> Cc: 'AMSAT-BB'
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ISS via UISS & AGW Broken
>
> I use DireWolf and UISS for packet via ISS. I've never tried anything else,
> so I can't say if it's better or not, but it works fine for me.
>
> Steve AI9IN
>
> On 2016-10-18 20:03, Ted wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> In the past I was successfully digipeating the ISS using my KPC3+,
>> UISS and AGW Packet engine. After a MB and HD change, I lost the
>> setup. I also lost AGW or at least messed it up, so I downloaded
>> again. On start, I get a 'copyright violation' box and it closes.
>>
>> So, how can I get past the 'copyright violation' message or is there a
>> better way to digipeat using other programs
>>
>> Any help appreciated
>>
>> 73, Ted
>>
>> K7TRK
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
> official views of AMSAT-NA.
>
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all
> interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
> views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 03:23:04 +0200
From: Claudio Ariotti - IK1SLD <claudio@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: Ted <k7trkradio@xxxxxxx.xxx>, 'AMSAT-BB' <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] R: ISS via UISS & AGW Broken
Message-ID: <2v7wsf622fnitgpdey6ep1py.1476840133698@xxxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hello Ted,
I found this:
AGWPE tries to start but then a "Copyright Violation" box appears. I click
"OK", but the program then closes.?
The?AGWPE.SYS?file is missing from your AGWPE folder. You can reinstall the
entire program from the zip file or just theAGWPE.SYS?file. (The AGWPE.SYS
file has the date of the program, so don't use the AGWPE.SYS file from
another version. It will display the wrong version date when you start the
program.)?
Here you can found all information about AGW install
http://www.k9pq.com/2009/08/blog-post-11-packet-radio-by-agw-packet.html?m=1
73' ?Claudio ?IK1SLD
-------- Messaggio originale --------
Da: Ted <k7trkradio@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Data:
A: 'AMSAT-BB' <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Oggetto: [amsat-bb] ISS via UISS & AGW Broken
Hello,
In the past I was successfully digipeating the ISS using my KPC3+, UISS and
AGW Packet engine. After a MB and HD change, I lost the setup. I also lost
AGW or at least messed it up, so I downloaded again. On start, I get a
'copyright violation' box and it closes.
So, how can I get past the 'copyright violation' message or is there a
better way to digipeat using other programs
Any help appreciated
73, Ted
K7TRK
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 21:22:16 -0600
From: Jim White <jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] repair of G5500
Message-ID:
<349dcfc8-eec8-633c-2e4e-83081e3f6b9d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Who repairs Yeasu G5500's now days?
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 16:58:28 +0200
From: Wouter Weggelaar <wouterweg@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Jim White <jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] repair of G5500
Message-ID:
<CAKXf1rHgeQcudyfmtSntCMjUVt6HXDVVjugCdksDWdwrkOZKkA@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Jim, are you asking who still does it, or are you asking for someone
to do it for you?
I still repair mine if needed, and I know some people that keep theirs
going as well. There is plenty of info on the net.
Wouter PA3WEG
On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 5:22 AM, Jim White <jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Who repairs Yeasu G5500's now days?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 08:04:36 -0700
From: Kelly Keeton <kellyrkeeton@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Wouter Weggelaar <wouterweg@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] repair of G5500
Message-ID: <21F2809B-34AF-4AFC-AAB3-5E4C32B95E9C@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I just added a 5600 to my equipment - what goes wrong with them? I re-packed
the rotators with little trouble.
Sent from a mobile device.
> On Oct 19, 2016, at 7:58 AM, Wouter Weggelaar <wouterweg@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> Jim, are you asking who still does it, or are you asking for someone
> to do it for you?
>
> I still repair mine if needed, and I know some people that keep theirs
> going as well. There is plenty of info on the net.
>
> Wouter PA3WEG
>
>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 5:22 AM, Jim White <jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
wrote:
>> Who repairs Yeasu G5500's now days?
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 10:07:08 -0500
From: Rolf Krogstad <rolf.krogstad@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Jim White <jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: "<AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] repair of G5500
Message-ID:
<CAJJyj=YHBf1ttHxUYD+UBWMvCepYBywpPB8o0MeXZ9_3Mm=YPA@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Try contacting Larry Kramer k6vlf 785@xxx.xxx
He repaired mine in July 2015 and did a very good job at a very reasonable
price.
73
Rolf NR0T
EN34
On Oct 18, 2016 10:22 PM, "Jim White" <jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Who repairs Yeasu G5500's now days?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 09:20:25 -0600
From: Jim White <jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: Wouter Weggelaar <wouterweg@xxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] repair of G5500
Message-ID:
<2533b332-7d88-2778-e805-57029fdefdeb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
I'm looking for someone who repairs them. The U of Colorado folks have a
broken AZ unit that they would like to get fixed if possible.
Jim
On 10/19/2016 8:58 AM, Wouter Weggelaar wrote:
> Jim, are you asking who still does it, or are you asking for someone
> to do it for you?
>
> I still repair mine if needed, and I know some people that keep theirs
> going as well. There is plenty of info on the net.
>
> Wouter PA3WEG
>
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 5:22 AM, Jim White <jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
wrote:
>> Who repairs Yeasu G5500's now days?
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
>> expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 11:26:43 -0400
From: Martha <martha@xxxxx.xxx>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Rooms Available
Message-ID:
<CAPk0USykoo9nGaie=X7hS_4+C51brvfFAzNYf19cyGqiCs-pMg@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
AMSAT has 7 rooms available at the DoubleTree in Galveston for the AMSAT
BOD meeting. The cost is $119 for single or double. The dates are Tues
11/8 - Thurs 11/10. Minimum stay is 2 nights. If you are interested in
staying with the group several days before the cruise , please call Martha
for the special code (301-822-4376)
--
73- Martha
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 12:03:20 -0400
From: Rick Walter <wb3csy@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Mike Hoblinski <hobergenix@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Outernet L-Band Service
Message-ID: <1AA7C79D-ED1C-4599-BD51-97AB00BB2BA4@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Since reading about the Outernet, I am becoming more curious. I have a
Funcube Dongle Pro + connected to my discone antenna going into my windows 7
laptop, running SDR Console. I am hearing a signal that sounds like data
with about 2-3 second breaks every so often. The frequency is 1,539.793 MHz
and I have the decode in Data USB 24 KHz bandwidth. The signal is -60 dBM on
the signal strength meter. Is it possible I am hearing this signal from the
bird or could it be a local source? I already have 4 versions of the
Raspberry Pi but figured this would be a reason to purchase the version 3!
We all need a good excuse to present to the XYL.
When using the programs to calculate my pointing direction for the bird, I
get two different numbers for the azimuth with two different programs. The
elevation is the same. I wish all the programs would accept E or W longitude
instead of the 0 to 360 degrees. I guess that makes it easier for the
programmer but they usually allow you to give N or S latitude.
Finally, I keep thinking if I get all the components to grab this data, is
it really worth it other than to say I did it? Thanks for any guidance or
comments.
Rick - WB3CSY
Sent from Rick's iPhone 6S
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds" - Albert Einstein
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" -
Arthur C. Clarke
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 20:03:26 +0000
From: Howie DeFelice <howied231@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: Zach Leffke <zleffke@xx.xxx>, "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Tracking Non Earth Orbit Spacecraft......how?
Message-ID:
<BN6PR17MB1202EA68CF9C48A5F936A85DE7D20@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxxxxxx.xx
x>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Zach,
Part of the CQC mission is that each team needs to be able to do orbital
determination. Part of the communications package for the Heimdallr
satellite that AMSAT is participating in will be a method to determine
satellite range and range-rate. We will have accurate information from the
launch provider concerning where the satellite is and it's trajectory at the
moment of separation. From that point on we need to "dead reckon" the
position based on distance and speed measurements form the ranging
measurements. Hams will be an important part of this process since the more
measurements we can get from places as far apart as possible will increase
the accuracy of the measurement. These measurements will allow us to place
the satellite in a position in a known reference frame. If we place the
earth in the same reference plane we can determine the azimuth and elevation
from a point on the earth. We should be able to predict where the satellite
should be at all times based on the ra
nge and range-rate measurements. I am not an expert on the subject, but
this is what I was able to get from listening to the experts. :)
Howie AB2S
________________________________
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx> on behalf of Zach Leffke
<zleffke@xx.xxx>
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 6:24 PM
To: Nico Janssen; amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Tracking Non Earth Orbit Spacecraft......how?
Thanks for the response Nico. Pete, WA6WOA, also recommend I take a
look at the Horizons system as well. I gave it a quick once over, and
actually logged into the telnet interface and played around a bit. It
definitely looks like the type of thing I'm looking for. Next step for
me is to learn the API and figure out how to integrate with my existing
Python tools. Also, changing how I think about satellite orbits and
tracking algorithms is also probably a requirement for me (I'm an EE
type, not an AOE type, so probably time to learn a little more about how
these tracking algorithms actually work).
Not being familiar with the system yet (or deep space tracking in
general), my only concern at the moment is the frequency with which they
update the system. TLEs get updated pretty regularly and need to be
refreshed by the client software. My cursory examination of the
HORIZONS system seems to indicate that they give ephemerides that cover
much longer windows, possibly indicating that they don't update the data
as frequently? Hopefully there is something about Deep Space tracking
that is different, not requiring such frequent updates. I have a sense
that I'm not thinking about 'scale' correctly yet. Like maybe these
objects are so far out, that errors that might creep into the SGP4+TLE
algorithms relatively quickly (requiring the weekly or bi-weekly
updates) take a lot longer to creep up and matter with the deep space
trajectories.
My concern here is primarily related to the Cube Quest Challenge stuff.
I think this is being launched as part of the Orion mission to the Moon
in the next couple years. Can we expect ephemeris data to be quickly
added to the HORIZONS system soon after launch and after the TLI burn
for the Orion mission? Maybe I'm just wrong about how frequently they
update the info. Since this system is being run by JPL, I'm assuming
(maybe hoping?) that the datasets on HORIZONS get updated every time
they conduct ranging operations on active missions with the DSN (kind of
like TLEs get updated every time NORAD does RADAR tracking for things
closer in)? Hopefully, this will then include the Orion Mission
relatively quickly so that the community can quickly pull the tracking
data required to compute pointing angles for their ground stations to
monitor the CQC bird.
Thanks for the pointers folks. In only a few emails, I've got some
great stuff to look into, and a whole new area to look into and learn
about! Fun stuff! Keep them coming!
Thanks,
Zach, KJ4QLP
Research Associate
Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
Work Phone: 540-231-4174
Cell Phone: 540-808-6305
On 10/17/2016 5:08 PM, Nico Janssen wrote:
> Zach,
>
> Good questions. In the near future deep space tracking will become vital
> for radio amateurs. So we should prepare for that.
>
> There are no simple solutions. But it may be helpful to start studying
> the
> JPL HORIZONS system:
> http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/?horizons
HORIZONS System<http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/?horizons>
ssd.jpl.nasa.gov
JPL's Horizons system description and related links.
>
> Tracking information on a number of deep space missions is provided by
> this system, e.g. Cassini, DSCOVR, Juno, LRO, MRO and the Voyagers.
>
> 73,
> Nico PA0DLO
>
>
> On 17-10-16 17:35, Zach Leffke wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> This might be slightly off topic, but I'm betting someone on this
>> list can point me in the right direction. I'm looking for ways to
>> track spacecraft that are not in Earth Orbit (NEO?...did I just
>> invent another acronym?...probably not.). I'm trying to figure out
>> ways to track man made space vehicles sent to places like the Moon,
>> Mars, the Lagrange Points, and beyond. As I understand it, TLEs +
>> SGP4 are not the appropriate model for things not in the vicinity of
>> Earth. I'm hoping to find a similar technique though for looking up
>> current orbital parameters for the Non-Earth satellites (like pulling
>> TLEs from celestrak) in some kind of database that contains current
>> elements for the spacecraft (NASA servers somewhere?), and then
>> compute pointing angles from a location on earth so I can figure when
>> and where to point an antenna to receive signals from these spacecraft.
>>
>> I believe this may be relevant to those on this list that might be
>> interested in tracking the Cube Quest Challenge amateur radio cubesat
>> that will be sent to the moon in the near future. After the
>> trans-lunar injection burn, the cubesat will be ejected from the
>> deployer. I'd like to be able to track this satellite as it travels
>> to the moon, and potentially help receive data from the bird's 10 GHz
>> Downlink. But.......where do I point my antenna and when?
>>
>> For spacecraft that are already orbiting the Moon, OK, easy enough.
>> Unless the antenna has a very narrow beamwidth, I can use any 'ole
>> EME tracking package to point my antenna 'at the moon' and with the
>> beamwidths I'm working with, the satellite is probably in the main
>> beam. But what about the initial journey to the moon? Also, for the
>> CQC, the cubesat will not immediately enter Lunar orbit (that is
>> where the 'Challenge' part comes in). So simply pointing at the Moon
>> may not work reliably.
>>
>> To get a little more detail......but hopefully not too much......
>>
>> I like using a python module called 'pyephem' for all (well...most)
>> things related to antenna pointing. This handy module works well
>> with TLE formats for Earth orbiters, contains a built in database for
>> objects in the solar system, and a decent number of 'fixed' celestial
>> objects like stars. It has the ability to import new objects in the
>> 'Xephem' format, for things like comets and other bodies. If
>> possible I'd like to use this feature to track other space probes
>> like the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, various Mars missions,
>> Satellites at Lagrange Points (ACE/DISCOVR), etc. etc.
>>
>> Does anyone on the list have experience with this type of thing that
>> they might be willing to share? I believe folks from AMSAT-DL
>> participated in the ISEE-3 reboot mission, so how did they know when
>> and where to point the Bochum antenna for this? Again, I'm looking
>> for a technique that hopefully involves downloading current 'orbital
>> parameters' of some standard format type (Like TLEs from celestrak,
>> but for non Earth Orbiters) and then importing those parameters into
>> pyephem (by possibly converting whatever gets downloaded into the
>> 'Xephem' format?) in order to integrate this kind of capability into
>> my current, python-based, tracking software. Does anyone know of any
>> publicly available databases that store current orbital or tracking
>> data for non-earth orbiting spacecraft? Any tutorials out there
>> about the algorithms used to compute deep space spacecraft position
>> from the orbital elements and thus the pointing angles (Like SGP4 +
>> coordinate system math, but for non-earth orbiters)? Any software
>> libraries anyone is familiar with for this (I prefer python, but am
>> open to other languages)?
>>
>>
>> Any and all advice, thoughts, info, papers, links, etc. would be
>> greatly appreciated.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Zach, KJ4QLP
>>
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
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------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 16:14:55 -0400
From: John Papay <john@xxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] VP5/AA4FL LOTW
Message-ID: <20161019201503.2C9789B8F@xxxxxxxxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Jay, VP5/AA4FL, is doing a great job working
FM and SSB Half Duplex with a FT817. I
worked him this morning from Arizona (K8YSE/7)
and uploaded the qso to LOTW. The contact was
confirmed 62 minutes after it was made!
Congratulations to Jay for letting us know
that we are in the log! Be sure to work him
as VP5 is rare on satellites.
73,
John K8YSE/7
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 20:27:29 +0000 (UTC)
From: Thomas F Davis <tfdavis@xxxx.xxx>
To: Howie DeFelice <howied231@xxxxxxx.xxx>, Zach Leffke
<zleffke@xx.xxx>, "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Tracking Non Earth Orbit Spacecraft......how?
Message-ID: <208809990.3196645.1476908849491@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
See the Basics of Space Flight (esp. Chapters 17 and 18, the link is to
Chapter 1):
https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/basics/bsf1-1.php
There are many books available, all are expensive
Here is one not yet
released:?https://www.amazon.com/Orbital-Mechanics-Astrodynamics-Techniques-Mi
ssions/dp/3319351729/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1476908215&sr=8-16&keywords=space
craft+navigation
There is a really good one at my museum, I'll check on it when I'm back in
on Saturday
On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 4:03 PM, Howie DeFelice
<howied231@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
Hi Zach,
Part of the CQC mission is that each team needs to be able to do orbital
determination. Part of the communications package for the Heimdallr
satellite that AMSAT is participating in will be a method to determine
satellite range and range-rate. We will have accurate information from the
launch provider concerning where the satellite is and it's trajectory at the
moment of separation. From that point on we need to "dead reckon" the
position based on distance and speed measurements form the ranging
measurements. Hams will be an important part of this process since the more
measurements we can get from places as far apart as possible will increase
the accuracy of the measurement. These measurements will allow us to place
the satellite in a position in a known reference frame. If we place the
earth in the same reference plane we can determine the azimuth and elevation
from a point on the earth. We should be able to predict where the satellite
should be at all times based on the ra
nge and range-rate measurements. I am not an expert on the subject, but
this is what I was able to get from listening to the experts. :)
Howie AB2S
________________________________
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx> on behalf of Zach Leffke
<zleffke@xx.xxx>
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 6:24 PM
To: Nico Janssen; amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Tracking Non Earth Orbit Spacecraft......how?
Thanks for the response Nico.? Pete, WA6WOA, also recommend I take a
look at the Horizons system as well.? I gave it a quick once over, and
actually logged into the telnet interface and played around a bit.? It
definitely looks like the type of thing I'm looking for.? Next step for
me is to learn the API and figure out how to integrate with my existing
Python tools.? Also, changing how I think about satellite orbits and
tracking algorithms is also probably a requirement for me (I'm an EE
type, not an AOE type, so probably time to learn a little more about how
these tracking algorithms actually work).
Not being familiar with the system yet (or deep space tracking in
general), my only concern at the moment is the frequency with which they
update the system.? TLEs get updated pretty regularly and need to be
refreshed by the client software.? My cursory examination of the
HORIZONS system seems to indicate that they give ephemerides that cover
much longer windows, possibly indicating that they don't update the data
as frequently? Hopefully there is something about Deep Space tracking
that is different, not requiring such frequent updates.? I have a sense
that I'm not thinking about 'scale' correctly yet.? Like maybe these
objects are so far out, that errors that might creep into the SGP4+TLE
algorithms relatively quickly (requiring the weekly or bi-weekly
updates) take a lot longer to creep up and matter with the deep space
trajectories.
My concern here is primarily related to the Cube Quest Challenge stuff.
I think this is being launched as part of the Orion mission to the Moon
in the next couple years.? Can we expect ephemeris data to be quickly
added to the HORIZONS system soon after launch and after the TLI burn
for the Orion mission?? Maybe I'm just wrong about how frequently they
update the info.? Since this system is being run by JPL, I'm assuming
(maybe hoping?) that the datasets on HORIZONS get updated every time
they conduct ranging operations on active missions with the DSN (kind of
like TLEs get updated every time NORAD does RADAR tracking for things
closer in)?? Hopefully, this will then include the Orion Mission
relatively quickly so that the community can quickly pull the tracking
data required to compute pointing angles for their ground stations to
monitor the CQC bird.
Thanks for the pointers folks.? In only a few emails, I've got some
great stuff to look into, and a whole new area to look into and learn
about!? Fun stuff!? Keep them coming!
Thanks,
Zach, KJ4QLP
Research Associate
Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
Work Phone: 540-231-4174
Cell Phone: 540-808-6305
On 10/17/2016 5:08 PM, Nico Janssen wrote:
> Zach,
>
> Good questions. In the near future deep space tracking will become vital
> for radio amateurs. So we should prepare for that.
>
> There are no simple solutions. But it may be helpful to start studying
> the
> JPL HORIZONS system:
> http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/?horizons
HORIZONS System<http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/?horizons>
ssd.jpl.nasa.gov
JPL's Horizons system description and related links.
>
> Tracking information on a number of deep space missions is provided by
> this system, e.g. Cassini, DSCOVR, Juno, LRO, MRO and the Voyagers.
>
> 73,
> Nico PA0DLO
>
>
> On 17-10-16 17:35, Zach Leffke wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>>? ? This might be slightly off topic, but I'm betting someone on this
>> list can point me in the right direction.? I'm looking for ways to
>> track spacecraft that are not in Earth Orbit (NEO?...did I just
>> invent another acronym?...probably not.).? I'm trying to figure out
>> ways to track man made space vehicles sent to places like the Moon,
>> Mars, the Lagrange Points, and beyond.? As I understand it, TLEs +
>> SGP4 are not the appropriate model for things not in the vicinity of
>> Earth.? I'm hoping to find a similar technique though for looking up
>> current orbital parameters for the Non-Earth satellites (like pulling
>> TLEs from celestrak) in some kind of database that contains current
>> elements for the spacecraft (NASA servers somewhere?), and then
>> compute pointing angles from a location on earth so I can figure when
>> and where to point an antenna to receive signals from these spacecraft.
>>
>> I believe this may be relevant to those on this list that might be
>> interested in tracking the Cube Quest Challenge amateur radio cubesat
>> that will be sent to the moon in the near future.? After the
>> trans-lunar injection burn, the cubesat will be ejected from the
>> deployer.? I'd like to be able to track this satellite as it travels
>> to the moon, and potentially help receive data from the bird's 10 GHz
>> Downlink.? But.......where do I point my antenna and when?
>>
>> For spacecraft that are already orbiting the Moon, OK, easy enough.
>> Unless the antenna has a very narrow beamwidth, I can use any 'ole
>> EME tracking package to point my antenna 'at the moon' and with the
>> beamwidths I'm working with, the satellite is probably in the main
>> beam.? But what about the initial journey to the moon?? Also, for the
>> CQC, the cubesat will not immediately enter Lunar orbit (that is
>> where the 'Challenge' part comes in). So simply pointing at the Moon
>> may not work reliably.
>>
>> To get a little more detail......but hopefully not too much......
>>
>> I like using a python module called 'pyephem' for all (well...most)
>> things related to antenna pointing.? This handy module works well
>> with TLE formats for Earth orbiters, contains a built in database for
>> objects in the solar system, and a decent number of 'fixed' celestial
>> objects like stars.? It has the ability to import new objects in the
>> 'Xephem' format, for things like comets and other bodies.? If
>> possible I'd like to use this feature to track other space probes
>> like the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, various Mars missions,
>> Satellites at Lagrange Points (ACE/DISCOVR), etc. etc.
>>
>> Does anyone on the list have experience with this type of thing that
>> they might be willing to share?? I believe folks from AMSAT-DL
>> participated in the ISEE-3 reboot mission, so how did they know when
>> and where to point the Bochum antenna for this? Again, I'm looking
>> for a technique that hopefully involves downloading current 'orbital
>> parameters' of some standard format type (Like TLEs from celestrak,
>> but for non Earth Orbiters) and then importing those parameters into
>> pyephem (by possibly converting whatever gets downloaded into the
>> 'Xephem' format?) in order to integrate this kind of capability into
>> my current, python-based, tracking software.? Does anyone know of any
>> publicly available databases that store current orbital or tracking
>> data for non-earth orbiting spacecraft?? Any tutorials out there
>> about the algorithms used to compute deep space spacecraft position
>> from the orbital elements and thus the pointing angles (Like SGP4 +
>> coordinate system math, but for non-earth orbiters)?? Any software
>> libraries anyone is familiar with for this (I prefer python, but am
>> open to other languages)?
>>
>>
>> Any and all advice, thoughts, info, papers, links, etc. would be
>> greatly appreciated.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Zach, KJ4QLP
>>
>
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