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CX2SA > SATDIG 17.04.17 21:10l 1066 Lines 37276 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Sent: 170417/1858Z @:CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM #:5248 [Salto] FBB7.00e $:AMSATBB12105
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Dupe contacts on SO-50 (John Becker)
2. Re: Dupe contacts on SO-50 (Scott Harvey)
3. Re: SDR transmitter asa Doppler dig-gen (Dani EA4GPZ)
4. EM85 semi-rare? (Philip Jenkins)
5. Re: EM85 semi-rare? (R.T.Liddy)
6. Re: SDR transmitter asa Doppler dig-gen (Zach Leffke)
7. Re: Dupe contacts on SO-50 (Tucker McGuire)
8. Re: SDR transmitter asa Doppler dig-gen (Norm n3ykf)
9. Re: SDR transmitter asa Doppler dig-gen (Zach Leffke)
10. Re: Dupe contacts on SO-50 (R.T.Liddy)
11. Fwd: Dupe contacts on SO-50 (Gabriel Zeifman)
12. Re: Fwd: Dupe contacts on SO-50 (Tucker McGuire)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 09:47:17 -0500
From: John Becker <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Dupe contacts on SO-50
Message-ID: <4498b03f-1b87-0d8f-a4f3-7ebc6dc8c736@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
I believe this is just something that will have to be put up with on a
FM up and FM down satellite. Checking a number of calls you will find
that many are limited to VHF UHF band but bit by the DX bug.
John
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 15:02:06 +0000 (UTC)
From: Scott Harvey <ka7fvv@xxxxx.xxx>
To: John Becker <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>, "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Dupe contacts on SO-50
Message-ID: <199627654.1823874.1492441326889@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
It has been interesting reading all of the chatter on here over the weekend.
?I have been into satellites for many years and find it enjoyable to make
some quick contacts on SO-50 or AO-85 even if it is someone I already have
in my log. ?I am sure we all have multiple duplicate contacts in all of our
logs. ?I don't rag chew on the FM birds obviously but have been known to
have a extended conversation with someone I know on FO-29 and if you tune
across the passband you will hear multiple conversations like this. ?I do
hear and contact new stations that are getting up and running on the FM
satellites but the community of satellite operators is fairly small and we
will make multiple contacts with the same stations. ?If I am told I need to
stay off an SO-50 pass because I am hearing stations I already have in my
log, some of those passes are going to be pretty quiet if we were all to
take that stance and risk being accused of causing QRM. ?That is the nature
of the FM satellites.
?There are mid US passes where you can't get a word in edgewise because it
is so busy. ?There is always another pass to try. ? ??73, Scott, KA7FVV
President - KBARA ?
www.kbara.org
Co-Owner 443.525 System Fusion Repeaterhttp://www.ka7fvv.net
From: John Becker <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Dupe contacts on SO-50
I believe this is just something that will have to be put up with on a
FM up and FM down satellite. Checking a number of calls you will find
that many are limited to VHF UHF band but bit by the DX bug.
John
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 17:02:35 +0200
From: Dani EA4GPZ <daniel@xxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] SDR transmitter asa Doppler dig-gen
Message-ID: <98a3726b-3105-3d6e-f98d-923ecfe4fcc4@xxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
El 17/04/17 a las 16:37, Robert Bruninga escribi?:
> Can anyone whip out some code to make the oscillator follow a Doppler Ramp
> in freuqncy from say 58.100 to 58.900 MHz over a ten minute pass. That
> should be easy enough for one-observer. Can just be linear for now
> (simulating a low pass).
Hi Bob,
You can take a look at gr-gpredict-doppler.
https://github.com/wnagele/gr-gpredict-doppler
Together with one or two (for the case of two observers) instances of
Gpredict, it can do what you want.
73,
Dani.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 11:06:25 -0400
From: Philip Jenkins <n4hf.philip@xxxxx.xxx>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] EM85 semi-rare?
Message-ID:
<CAGdEbNbSQwMZkoV-CQ4LzvxP+OJ2ezH1g4PTFYBtPMG_iBjHxQ@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
HI
After having a long - but awesome - lunch with John KG4AKV after the
Raleigh Hamfest on Saturday, the urge to become more active on satellites
has increased :-)
I live towards the eastern edge of EM85, and I am curious how many might
need this grid-square. There is one fairly large city - Knoxville TN - and
another medium sized - Asheville NC - inside EM 85, so I'd be a bit
surprised if it is that rare. (I don't know any other sat ops in western
NC, but east TN may be a different story.)
I have equipment for both FM and analog sats, but taking a Kenwood TS 2000
portable can be a bit of a problem, so I would appreciate advice on
set-ups/radios (or SDR receiver?) for operating analog portable. (It's
been 24 years since I have been on an analog sat - AO-13 - but that's
perhaps a short article for the AMSAT Journal.)
I don't live far from EM95, so that's a possibility, although I think N4UFO
keeps that one fairly active., Other nearby grids are a possibility too,
but only FM at first till I decide on what I want to do, rig-wise, for
operating SSB/CW portable. (Already have a great antenna, an M^2, for that,
and all the coax.)
Philip N4HF
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 15:17:52 +0000 (UTC)
From: "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: Philip Jenkins <n4hf.philip@xxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT BB
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] EM85 semi-rare?
Message-ID: <1876681893.1867126.1492442272032@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Philip,
There always seems to be someone that needs
a particular Grid. Put out a note with your
plans and you should get good interest. Besides,
it's fun being "out there".
73, Bob K8BL
________________________________
From: Philip Jenkins <n4hf.philip@xxxxx.xxx>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 11:06 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] EM85 semi-rare?
HI
After having a long - but awesome - lunch with John KG4AKV after the
Raleigh Hamfest on Saturday, the urge to become more active on satellites
has increased :-)
I live towards the eastern edge of EM85, and I am curious how many might
need this grid-square. There is one fairly large city - Knoxville TN - and
another medium sized - Asheville NC - inside EM 85, so I'd be a bit
surprised if it is that rare. (I don't know any other sat ops in western
NC, but east TN may be a different story.)
I have equipment for both FM and analog sats, but taking a Kenwood TS 2000
portable can be a bit of a problem, so I would appreciate advice on
set-ups/radios (or SDR receiver?) for operating analog portable. (It's
been 24 years since I have been on an analog sat - AO-13 - but that's
perhaps a short article for the AMSAT Journal.)
I don't live far from EM95, so that's a possibility, although I think N4UFO
keeps that one fairly active., Other nearby grids are a possibility too,
but only FM at first till I decide on what I want to do, rig-wise, for
operating SSB/CW portable. (Already have a great antenna, an M^2, for that,
and all the coax.)
Philip N4HF
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 12:23:43 -0400
From: Zach Leffke <zleffke@xx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] SDR transmitter asa Doppler dig-gen
Message-ID: <224a7cc4-3700-9466-7e1c-d2b3dfc1efe9@xx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Hi Bob,
I don't have whip out level software, but can offer a few rabbit holes
for the students to go down. I did a similar project for my graduate
SDR class a few years ago where I built a 'satellite simulator' using
USRPs. Trust Me you don't want that code (I was new to all this at the
time), but below are my two cents from lessons learned and new things
since then.
1. The USRP 2922 SDR from national instruments is an Ettus Research
(now owned by NI) USRP with an SBX daughtercard installed. The RF
output of this device is between 400 MHz and 4.4 GHz. So if you are
looking to use it as a programmable LO, it likely won't do. (also, kind
of moot, but if you buy direct from Ettus Research, it is cheaper).
What I would recommend is an Ettus Research N210
(https://www.ettus.com/product/details/UN210-KIT, $1896) and a different
daughtercard that will work at the required Frequency, like a BasicTX
that operates from 1-250 MHz
(https://www.ettus.com/product/details/BasicTX, $83). While your at it,
you might as well get the BasicRX so you can monitor the spectrum with
the same device (has independent tuning between TX and RX, and you can
install both daughtercards in one N210).
2. If you are using USRPs you are probably using GNU Radio (Awesome!).
As Dani mentioned, there is a gr-gpredict-doppler out of tree module
that can be linked with Gpredict to control tuning in GNU Radio. This
is for sure probably the simplest most direct way to get up and running,
so I second that idea (feel free to ignore my number 3). For my
graduate class project, I used the UDP server feature of plain ole
'predict' (actually 'predict-g1yyh') to do achieve basically the same
goals. The problem I ran into with this type of interface was time
(like UTC time). At the time I didn't understand how to properly use
predict via the UDP server function to query it for different time
stamps other than 'now.' End result was I could only run simulations
when an actual satellite was overhead, pretty clunky. Gpredict has a
pretty simple interface for controlling time though (to move the
simulation into the future or back into the past), and I'm sure it can
be done in predict via the UDP interface, I was just new to everything,
so lots of 'student operator error.' I mention it only as a 'watch out
for this one' type thing.
3. One way to think of GNU Radio is that the 'flowgraph' or 'modem' is
just a python class, which can be imported and controlled by large
python programs (you can start/stop the flowgraph, update parameters,
etc.). So for a bit finer control, and if I could do it all over again
the way I would probably go, is another option called 'pyephem'
(http://rhodesmill.org/pyephem/). This handy little python module is
capable of importing TLEs and executing the SGP4 algorithm for orbital
propagation. In addition you can feed it ground station coordinates and
times (UTC) and then query it for az/el/range/range rate (doppler)
information. Its basically a python version of the 'engine' that runs
under the hood of predict or gpredict. So for a bit finer resolution,
and to make a single compact python program that doesn't rely on an
external program (only one 'thing' to execute and control), you could
use pyephem to compute the doppler values and then feed that to GNU
Radio. To be clear though, this is not a GNU Radio out of tree module,
it is a standalone python module, and some coding would be required to
merge the two (I would run pyephem in one thread or process with
callbacks to control the GNU Radio parameters).
4. Last little nugget, when you install GNU Radio, it comes with a
handy little set of executables. One of the commonly used ones is
'uhd_find_devices' which locates connect USRPs (IP or USB based
connections) and returns basic information about them (IP addr, serial
numbers, installed daughtercards, etc). If 'uhd_find_devices' works and
returns info, then when you execute the flowgraph it should be able to
locate the device. Another common one is 'uhd_fft' which is a quick way
to get a spectrum analyzer like display up and running. The other
lesser known tool is 'uhd_siggen' or 'uhd_siggen_gui.' This little tool
lets you quickly generate transmit signals. So for a 'static test' to
make sure the USRP is working as an LO (right power levels, frequency,
etc.) you can use this to get a quick feel for whether or not it will
work for your application. It has a bunch of sliders for controlling
transmit gain and center frequency so you should be able to 'manually'
test out your system and verify things are working before diving into
the complexities of custom flowgraphs with the doppler simulations.
Hope this helps. Cool Stuff!
God Luck and 73s,
-Zach, KJ4QLP
Research Associate
Aerospace Systems Lab
Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
Work Phone: 540-231-4174
Cell Phone: 540-808-6305
On 4/17/2017 10:37 AM, Robert Bruninga wrote:
> USRP 2922 SDR
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 12:31:39 -0400
From: Tucker McGuire <tucker@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Dupe contacts on SO-50
Message-ID:
<CA+gmQJREvfnmDWPYpazEXwKc+Tyj3ydfgP9iwg1yhnsgFmCfAw@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Mike,
I agree completely. Your post goes into better detail and clarifies what
exactly I meant.
Cheers & 73,
Tucker
W4FS
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 10:24 PM, Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Tucker,
>
> You bring up a situation that I'm all too familiar with. I'm not sure but
> it seems to be closely coupled with FM repeater operation where stations
> give a shout out to other stations they know. If only regular FM repeaters
> worked 10 minutes every hour and a half then maybe ops would realize how
> precious of a resource FM passes are.
>
> I also agree with the lonely pass situation. Out here on the left coast we
> run into a lot of quiet time. Many times I'm surprised I don't have to turn
> the bird on. On this type of pass it is perfectly acceptable to work the
> same stations or put your call out to generate activity to help others find
> the bird. Even some rag chewing with breaks is perfectly fine given you
> don't loose situational awareness.
>
> I think the situation you're describing is where a rare grid(s) is on or a
> demo station is on and you get a station who feels the need to call out or
> work dupes. There are many passes where I've just listened to the magic of
> radio in action, it has its own rewards. Making contacts is great but you
> really have to remind yourself that everyone else is trying for the same.
> It really is OK to have a pass go by where all you do is SWL.
>
> 73,
>
> Mike Diehl
> AI6GS
>
> > On Apr 16, 2017, at 6:58 PM, Tucker McGuire <tucker@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello space bird enthusiasts,
> >
> > I have noticed that certain stations on busy SO-50 passes work the same
> > stations that they have worked on many previous passes when they are in
> the
> > same grid. Dupe contacts.
> >
> > This can prevent and has prevented other stations from trying to work new
> > grids that happen to be on or perhaps prevented them from working a new
> guy
> > that hasn't been on the satellites before. On quiet passes I see no
> issues
> > with working the same station you've worked hundreds of times before but
> on
> > busy SO-50 passes it is just disruptive.
> >
> > Maybe I'm just a curmudgeon but that's my two cents.
> >
> > Cheers & 73,
> > Tucker
> > W4FS
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 12:37:22 -0400
From: Norm n3ykf <normanlizeth@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Robert Bruninga <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>
Cc: "<,amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxxxxxx <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] SDR transmitter asa Doppler dig-gen
Message-ID:
<CAJUhCTMGWhQCWK4rqibqKorGxzuAYTPJrfJy9dZxGNS7FUFHiw@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Much easier to use an HP signal generator and drive it via the GPIB
port. Less noise, more accurate, etc..
A nit to program across GPIB. Slightly more complex than talking to a TNC.
Norm n3ykf
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Robert Bruninga <bruninga@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Some students built an HF inverting SSB transponder simulator. (4 diodes,
> and a siggen at 58 MHz) so they can then use two FT-817?s on the 21.4 MHz
> uplink and 29.4 MHz downlink) for our next satellite:
> http://aprs.org/hfsat.html )
>
>
>
> Now we want to use an USRP 2922 SDR as the programmabel oscillator around
> 58 MHz so we can simulate Doppler.
>
>
>
> Can anyone whip out some code to make the oscillator follow a Doppler Ramp
> in freuqncy from say 58.100 to 58.900 MHz over a ten minute pass. That
> should be easy enough for one-observer. Can just be linear for now
> (simulating a low pass).
>
>
>
> But then once that is done, we need the driver to then FLIP the Doppler
> shift instantly in the opposite direction to simulate the shift seen by
> another observer at the other end of the pass. This is another layer of
> complexity, but we will simply have a push button input to shift between
> the two states when one station or the other is transmitting.
>
>
>
> But for now, the students just need some handholding to get the basic SDR
> acting as a signal gen at 58 MHz and how to input the freqncy ramp to it.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Bob, WB4APR
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 12:43:20 -0400
From: Zach Leffke <zleffke@xx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] SDR transmitter asa Doppler dig-gen
Message-ID: <613a2646-a4f5-892f-7dc2-1fddb0b68513@xx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
agreed. Phase noise and such will be much better from HP products.
If thats the setup scenario, could still use pyephem married up to the
driver code for the GPIB interface to generate the doppler profiles.
-Zach
Research Associate
Aerospace Systems Lab
Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
Work Phone: 540-231-4174
Cell Phone: 540-808-6305
On 4/17/2017 12:37 PM, Norm n3ykf wrote:
> Much easier to use an HP signal generator and drive it via the GPIB
> port. Less noise, more accurate, etc..
>
> A nit to program across GPIB. Slightly more complex than talking to a TNC.
>
> Norm n3ykf
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Robert Bruninga <bruninga@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
>> Some students built an HF inverting SSB transponder simulator. (4 diodes,
>> and a siggen at 58 MHz) so they can then use two FT-817?s on the 21.4 MHz
>> uplink and 29.4 MHz downlink) for our next satellite:
>> http://aprs.org/hfsat.html )
>>
>>
>>
>> Now we want to use an USRP 2922 SDR as the programmabel oscillator around
>> 58 MHz so we can simulate Doppler.
>>
>>
>>
>> Can anyone whip out some code to make the oscillator follow a Doppler Ramp
>> in freuqncy from say 58.100 to 58.900 MHz over a ten minute pass. That
>> should be easy enough for one-observer. Can just be linear for now
>> (simulating a low pass).
>>
>>
>>
>> But then once that is done, we need the driver to then FLIP the Doppler
>> shift instantly in the opposite direction to simulate the shift seen by
>> another observer at the other end of the pass. This is another layer of
>> complexity, but we will simply have a push button input to shift between
>> the two states when one station or the other is transmitting.
>>
>>
>>
>> But for now, the students just need some handholding to get the basic SDR
>> acting as a signal gen at 58 MHz and how to input the freqncy ramp to it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Bob, WB4APR
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 18:08:31 +0000 (UTC)
From: "R.T.Liddy" <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: Tucker McGuire <tucker@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Dupe contacts on SO-50
Message-ID: <1605757114.2009941.1492452511320@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Tucker W4FS,
First, you are far from being a curmudgeon! You'll have to put
in many years of crankiness before you can claim that title.
You raise a point that has persisted for quite a while regarding
FM Satellites. Experienced operators usually follow the proper
protocol/etiquette on the single-channel resource. They rarely
chit-chat unless the bird is idle. As with anything else, newbies
are learning the ropes.
The FM SATs, as we all know, are where the new folks start out
because they are easy due to readily available equipment. These
operators are trying to figure everything out at once - the frequencies,
the antennas, the PL, the AOS/LOS/AZ/EL, the protocol, etc., etc.
Until they figure all of these things out, the rest of the users are
going to have to endure problems of various kinds. It's the utter
reality of the situation. However, they are the "new blood" that
we need to keep this aspect of the hobby growing.
And, believe it or not, not all SAT Ops are Grid Chasers. Some only
care about the thrill of pointing a signal up toward the sky and
saying hello to someone via something flying through Space. We have
no choice but to co-exist in this environment. It is what it is.
A good primer for new operators can be found on John K8YSE's website
at: http://www.papays.com/sat/general.html
All we can do is be good examples for the new/other users. When someone
is operating from a rare Grid and we already have it confirmed, stay clear.
If the
pileup dies down and no one is calling, it's perfectly fine to say a quick
hello
to let them know they are being heard. During routine passes, if you hear a
new
Call, it's nice to give them a shout so they get the operating experience.
73 & GL 2 All, Bob K8BL
________________________________
> On Apr 16, 2017, at 6:58 PM, Tucker McGuire <tucker@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> Hello space bird enthusiasts,
>
> I have noticed that certain stations on busy SO-50 passes work the same
> stations that they have worked on many previous passes when they are in the
> same grid. Dupe contacts.
>
> This can prevent and has prevented other stations from trying to work new
> grids that happen to be on or perhaps prevented them from working a new guy
> that hasn't been on the satellites before. On quiet passes I see no issues
> with working the same station you've worked hundreds of times before but on
> busy SO-50 passes it is just disruptive.
>
> Maybe I'm just a curmudgeon but that's my two cents.
>
> Cheers & 73,
> Tucker
> W4FS
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 13:50:06 -0500
From: Gabriel Zeifman <gabrielzeifman@xxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Fwd: Dupe contacts on SO-50
Message-ID: <74832A27-A464-4119-97E8-C52DD713FE85@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I think the issue Tucker raises is more when veteran sat ops try to
discuss their DXpedition to Pitcairn on a busy SO-50 pass. I think everyone
supports new blood, even when they fumble.
>
> 73,
> Gabe
> NJ7H
>
>> On Apr 17, 2017, at 1:08 PM, R.T.Liddy <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>>
>> Tucker W4FS,
>>
>>
>> First, you are far from being a curmudgeon! You'll have to put
>> in many years of crankiness before you can claim that title.
>>
>> You raise a point that has persisted for quite a while regarding
>> FM Satellites. Experienced operators usually follow the proper
>> protocol/etiquette on the single-channel resource. They rarely
>> chit-chat unless the bird is idle. As with anything else, newbies
>> are learning the ropes.
>>
>> The FM SATs, as we all know, are where the new folks start out
>> because they are easy due to readily available equipment. These
>> operators are trying to figure everything out at once - the frequencies,
>> the antennas, the PL, the AOS/LOS/AZ/EL, the protocol, etc., etc.
>>
>> Until they figure all of these things out, the rest of the users are
>> going to have to endure problems of various kinds. It's the utter
>> reality of the situation. However, they are the "new blood" that
>> we need to keep this aspect of the hobby growing.
>>
>> And, believe it or not, not all SAT Ops are Grid Chasers. Some only
>> care about the thrill of pointing a signal up toward the sky and
>> saying hello to someone via something flying through Space. We have
>> no choice but to co-exist in this environment. It is what it is.
>>
>> A good primer for new operators can be found on John K8YSE's website
>> at: http://www.papays.com/sat/general.html
>>
>> All we can do is be good examples for the new/other users. When someone
>> is operating from a rare Grid and we already have it confirmed, stay
clear. If the
>> pileup dies down and no one is calling, it's perfectly fine to say a
quick hello
>> to let them know they are being heard. During routine passes, if you hear
a new
>> Call, it's nice to give them a shout so they get the operating experience.
>>
>> 73 & GL 2 All, Bob K8BL
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>> On Apr 16, 2017, at 6:58 PM, Tucker McGuire <tucker@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>
>>> Hello space bird enthusiasts,
>>
>>>
>>
>>> I have noticed that certain stations on busy SO-50 passes work the same
>>
>>> stations that they have worked on many previous passes when they are in
the
>>
>>> same grid. Dupe contacts.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> This can prevent and has prevented other stations from trying to work new
>>
>>> grids that happen to be on or perhaps prevented them from working a new
guy
>>
>>> that hasn't been on the satellites before. On quiet passes I see no issues
>>
>>> with working the same station you've worked hundreds of times before but
on
>>
>>> busy SO-50 passes it is just disruptive.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Maybe I'm just a curmudgeon but that's my two cents.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Cheers & 73,
>>
>>> Tucker
>>
>>> W4FS
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>
>>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>>
>>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>>
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>>
>>> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>>
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>>
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>>
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>>
>> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 14:56:40 -0400
From: Tucker McGuire <tucker@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: Gabriel Zeifman <gabrielzeifman@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Fwd: Dupe contacts on SO-50
Message-ID:
<CA+gmQJSaMOxi7HKa=6Sh32vEwQZMteB5FJPRnd=0tNYAmwMJdQ@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
You're correct Gabe.
I don't want the new guy to miss out on a QSO because of these dupe
contacts on really busy passes. In my original email I said "or perhaps
prevented them from working a new guy that hasn't been on the satellites
before" I was not just referring to stations on in new rare grids (Not
everyone chases grids). I've heard new guys just trying to get that first
contact get ignored before.
Cheers & 73,
Tucker
W4FS
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 2:50 PM, Gabriel Zeifman <gabrielzeifman@xxxxx.xxx>
wrote:
> >
> > I think the issue Tucker raises is more when veteran sat ops try to
> discuss their DXpedition to Pitcairn on a busy SO-50 pass. I think everyone
> supports new blood, even when they fumble.
> >
> > 73,
> > Gabe
> > NJ7H
> >
> >> On Apr 17, 2017, at 1:08 PM, R.T.Liddy <k8bl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> >>
> >> Tucker W4FS,
> >>
> >>
> >> First, you are far from being a curmudgeon! You'll have to put
> >> in many years of crankiness before you can claim that title.
> >>
> >> You raise a point that has persisted for quite a while regarding
> >> FM Satellites. Experienced operators usually follow the proper
> >> protocol/etiquette on the single-channel resource. They rarely
> >> chit-chat unless the bird is idle. As with anything else, newbies
> >> are learning the ropes.
> >>
> >> The FM SATs, as we all know, are where the new folks start out
> >> because they are easy due to readily available equipment. These
> >> operators are trying to figure everything out at once - the frequencies,
> >> the antennas, the PL, the AOS/LOS/AZ/EL, the protocol, etc., etc.
> >>
> >> Until they figure all of these things out, the rest of the users are
> >> going to have to endure problems of various kinds. It's the utter
> >> reality of the situation. However, they are the "new blood" that
> >> we need to keep this aspect of the hobby growing.
> >>
> >> And, believe it or not, not all SAT Ops are Grid Chasers. Some only
> >> care about the thrill of pointing a signal up toward the sky and
> >> saying hello to someone via something flying through Space. We have
> >> no choice but to co-exist in this environment. It is what it is.
> >>
> >> A good primer for new operators can be found on John K8YSE's website
> >> at: http://www.papays.com/sat/general.html
> >>
> >> All we can do is be good examples for the new/other users. When someone
> >> is operating from a rare Grid and we already have it confirmed, stay
> clear. If the
> >> pileup dies down and no one is calling, it's perfectly fine to say a
> quick hello
> >> to let them know they are being heard. During routine passes, if you
> hear a new
> >> Call, it's nice to give them a shout so they get the operating
> experience.
> >>
> >> 73 & GL 2 All, Bob K8BL
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>> On Apr 16, 2017, at 6:58 PM, Tucker McGuire <tucker@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>> Hello space bird enthusiasts,
> >>
> >>>
> >>
> >>> I have noticed that certain stations on busy SO-50 passes work the same
> >>
> >>> stations that they have worked on many previous passes when they are
> in the
> >>
> >>> same grid. Dupe contacts.
> >>
> >>>
> >>
> >>> This can prevent and has prevented other stations from trying to work
> new
> >>
> >>> grids that happen to be on or perhaps prevented them from working a
> new guy
> >>
> >>> that hasn't been on the satellites before. On quiet passes I see no
> issues
> >>
> >>> with working the same station you've worked hundreds of times before
> but on
> >>
> >>> busy SO-50 passes it is just disruptive.
> >>
> >>>
> >>
> >>> Maybe I'm just a curmudgeon but that's my two cents.
> >>
> >>>
> >>
> >>> Cheers & 73,
> >>
> >>> Tucker
> >>
> >>> W4FS
> >>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>
> >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> >>
> >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
> >>
> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >>
> >>> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >>
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> >>
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
> >>
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >>
> >> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
> of AMSAT-NA.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> >> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 12, Issue 105
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