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CX2SA > SATDIG 18.04.17 05:03l 982 Lines 38239 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: EM85 semi-rare? (John KI4RO)
2. Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825 MHz (short)
(Clayton Coleman)
3. Re: Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825 MHz (long)
(Greg D)
4. Fwd: Mayan Grids (Expedition) (David Maciel (XE3DX))
5. Re: Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825 MHz (long)
(Mike Diehl)
6. Re: Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825 MHz (long)
(Greg D)
7. Re: EM85 semi-rare? (Kevin M)
8. Re: Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825 MHz (long)
(Stefan Wagener)
9. Re: Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825 MHz (long)
(Mike Diehl)
10. Re: Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825 MHz (long)
(Stefan Wagener)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 14:59:30 -0400
From: John KI4RO <johnki4ro@xxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] EM85 semi-rare?
Message-ID:
<CA+-NL40HOgMg951nsUQmj0zqLjsTp0R8CdnaJAG2NHaX5YOF2g@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hi Phil,
I would vote for EM80, EM81, EM82, EM84, EM87, EM72 and EM75 if any of
those are easily available to you once you you get setup.
73
John KI4RO
?EM88?
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 14:08:27 -0500
From: Clayton Coleman <kayakfishtx@xxxxx.xxx>
To: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825 MHz
(short)
Message-ID:
<CAPovOwfUy20i3X2vVijBajy0Reofx4R8+qycyJydCZVBnYUU8A@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
It's pretty darn satisfying that I was able to have four, short,
efficient packet QSO's with stations via the ISS pass today at 17:17
UTC.
Thank you KC7MG, N1RCN, WN9Q, K4RTS and the handful of others live at
their keyboards/radios.
It's hard to believe that in this crazy, beacon-mad world, legitimate
QSO's can be made!
73
Clayton
W5PFG
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 13:26:08 -0700
From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@xxxxx.xxx>
To: AMSAT Mailing List <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825
MHz (long)
Message-ID: <e83ca9f0-fd6b-2238-2a5a-e29a3f451165@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Gabriel Zeifman wrote:
> It's not complicated. However much it may be insisted ISS packet is not
> SO-50, it is practically the same thing (single channel operating on FM).
Actually, the ISS digi is worse.
With voice communication, one can sometimes pick up the start or tail of
a call sign, as the astronaut demonstrated, and use that to filter a
second try. With digital, any bits that get corrupted result in no
reception at all.
I hate to suggest this, and admit I am assuming a cause without
supporting evidence, but it might be necessary to remove the "vanity"
aspect of ISS digipeating, and take down or hide from general view the
reporting sites that support it. While a useful tool for
troubleshooting, I suspect the vanity aspect of seeing your call in a
public list day after day from an unattended station may be too strong a
draw for some, resulting in the clogged channel. The SatGates that
monitor for ISS and other APRS satellite traffic are still important
part of the infrastructure, so that the information can be datamined
from APRS-IS if you need it for troubleshooting. But the consolidated
lists of who has been seen digipeating through the ISS, I think, may be
contributing more trouble than they are worth.
Greg KO6TH
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 20:37:40 +0000
From: "David Maciel (XE3DX)" <david.xe3dx@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Grupo Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Fwd: Mayan Grids (Expedition)
Message-ID:
<CA+3j0ONAikEnhtOAR2h6qBjwxYQGL3HhtGmrPsgNp5MrPTCuVw@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hello good day, morning I will be in route to start my work station Rover,
I think little people interested my work, I will meet sked you ask, and
make short trip, I hope help interested.
XE3DX
Dave
Now EL60
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: David Maciel (XE3DX) <david.xe3dx@xxxxx.xxx>
Date: El lun, 10 de abril de 2017 a las 19:36
Subject: Mayan Grids (Expeditioin)
To: Grupo Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Hello guys.
I'm going to a new adventure, to be on vacation from April 11-23. I am
going to do a tour that I have called "Mayan Grids" I will be in Mayan
zones, the first days I will be with family, I think I will only work FM
satellites. The second week I will be the route for wanted grids, there if
I work on satellites of FM and SSB, I plan to activate the grids EK48,
EK59, EK69, EK69, EL60, EL61, EL50, EL51 and others ... I will be in
contact Via twitter @xxxxx when you have Internet signals, there are areas
that are not covered. I hope to hear ...
David Maciel XE3DX
*http://www.qsl.net/xe3dx/ <http://www.qsl.net/xe3dx/>*
*david.xe3dx@xxxxx.xxx <david.xe3dx@xxxxx.xxx>*
--
Saludos
David Maciel
XE3DX
Enviado desde mi IPHONE
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 14:51:55 -0700
From: Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Greg D <ko6th.greg@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT Mailing List <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825
MHz (long)
Message-ID: <72B4E0E5-CFDA-443B-9F12-A53E80FC6674@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Greg,
You make a good point about the complications of dropped packets. I have
some good recordings of voice stations getting a call back when as little as
a single letter of their call was heard. It's amazing how well we can learn
the voices of other ops when you're on regularly. This simply doesn't happen
on packet.
Another complication is that it is on simplex. That means on a 10 minute
pass the maximum amount of time possible to digipeat is 5 minutes if the
channel is fully saturated. Subtract out the ISS beacons we end up with less
than 50% of the pass available for ISS to hear you.
I'm not sure what the best solution is. You do bring up an interesting point
about APRS-IS. Maybe it's possible to have them black list fixed beacon
stations and remove the vanity aspect like you mentioned.
73,
Mike Diehl
AI6GS
> On Apr 17, 2017, at 1:26 PM, Greg D <ko6th.greg@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> Gabriel Zeifman wrote:
>> It's not complicated. However much it may be insisted ISS packet is not
>> SO-50, it is practically the same thing (single channel operating on FM).
> Actually, the ISS digi is worse.
>
> With voice communication, one can sometimes pick up the start or tail of
> a call sign, as the astronaut demonstrated, and use that to filter a
> second try. With digital, any bits that get corrupted result in no
> reception at all.
>
> I hate to suggest this, and admit I am assuming a cause without
> supporting evidence, but it might be necessary to remove the "vanity"
> aspect of ISS digipeating, and take down or hide from general view the
> reporting sites that support it. While a useful tool for
> troubleshooting, I suspect the vanity aspect of seeing your call in a
> public list day after day from an unattended station may be too strong a
> draw for some, resulting in the clogged channel. The SatGates that
> monitor for ISS and other APRS satellite traffic are still important
> part of the infrastructure, so that the information can be datamined
> from APRS-IS if you need it for troubleshooting. But the consolidated
> lists of who has been seen digipeating through the ISS, I think, may be
> contributing more trouble than they are worth.
>
> Greg KO6TH
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 16:14:19 -0700
From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT Mailing List <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825
MHz (long)
Message-ID: <0a76201c-b15f-2138-da72-68e06ee282d0@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi Mike,
I think APRS-IS itself is fine. Essential, actually. Not suggesting it
should change, or is directly involved in the problem.
So, doing some more digging, the vanity site I thought of was
http://www.ariss.net/, and a few others that are similar. BUT, the map,
and the table below it, clearly show stations that have live operators
behind them, as demonstrated by the 2-way messages listed. And the more
I look into the stations list, I'm thinking that Steve is doing some
pretty clever filtering to weed out the ones that are just beacons
(though I do see a few in there). I thought I saw a bunch that appeared
to be unattended, but now I'm not so sure.
So, perhaps, I'm off a bit about the vanity aspect of the unattended
beaconing? Are there sites that list row upon row of call signs that
aren't live? If there isn't a billboard for unattended beacons, why
would someone engage in doing that? A vanity beacon that only the
originator knows about isn't very vain. Perhaps something else, but not
that.
Greg KO6TH
Mike Diehl wrote:
> Greg,
>
> You make a good point about the complications of dropped packets. I have
some good recordings of voice stations getting a call back when as little as
a single letter of their call was heard. It's amazing how well we can learn
the voices of other ops when you're on regularly. This simply doesn't happen
on packet.
>
> Another complication is that it is on simplex. That means on a 10 minute
pass the maximum amount of time possible to digipeat is 5 minutes if the
channel is fully saturated. Subtract out the ISS beacons we end up with less
than 50% of the pass available for ISS to hear you.
>
> I'm not sure what the best solution is. You do bring up an interesting
point about APRS-IS. Maybe it's possible to have them black list fixed
beacon stations and remove the vanity aspect like you mentioned.
>
> 73,
>
> Mike Diehl
> AI6GS
>
>> On Apr 17, 2017, at 1:26 PM, Greg D <ko6th.greg@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>>
>> Gabriel Zeifman wrote:
>>> It's not complicated. However much it may be insisted ISS packet is not
>>> SO-50, it is practically the same thing (single channel operating on FM).
>> Actually, the ISS digi is worse.
>>
>> With voice communication, one can sometimes pick up the start or tail of
>> a call sign, as the astronaut demonstrated, and use that to filter a
>> second try. With digital, any bits that get corrupted result in no
>> reception at all.
>>
>> I hate to suggest this, and admit I am assuming a cause without
>> supporting evidence, but it might be necessary to remove the "vanity"
>> aspect of ISS digipeating, and take down or hide from general view the
>> reporting sites that support it. While a useful tool for
>> troubleshooting, I suspect the vanity aspect of seeing your call in a
>> public list day after day from an unattended station may be too strong a
>> draw for some, resulting in the clogged channel. The SatGates that
>> monitor for ISS and other APRS satellite traffic are still important
>> part of the infrastructure, so that the information can be datamined
>> from APRS-IS if you need it for troubleshooting. But the consolidated
>> lists of who has been seen digipeating through the ISS, I think, may be
>> contributing more trouble than they are worth.
>>
>> Greg KO6TH
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 23:58:27 +0000 (UTC)
From: Kevin M <n4ufo@xxxxx.xxx>
To: "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: "n4hf.philip@xxxxx.xxxx <n4hf.philip@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] EM85 semi-rare?
Message-ID: <1003754611.2270908.1492473507146@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hi Philip,
I just made a trip up to Marion with the XYL to operate from EM85 last
month, I had a good number of takers, even having to share the pass with
another rover operating from a much needed grid to the south. I try to keep
a list of grids around me and the more avid grid chasers that need them.
That list will dwindle if not empty after such a trip, but within a short
time, it grows again as new folks come into the hobby and get the bug.
(AMSAT journal ran an article about the XYL & I going up there about 2 years
ago, there and another grid. Fun day trip for the wife!)
That said, I only have one callsign listed for EM85 at the moment, but that
doesn't mean more don't need it. Not everyone can necessarily make a
specific pass on a specific day. Yes, I keep EM95 fairly active and the EM96
line is just right up the road from me about 15-20 minutes. But, I have a
about 5 on each list for EM84 and EM86 and I am sure there are more that
need them. Bottom line, there are no regular sat ops in those grids. AND no
regular op that I know of in EM85 (or else I wouldn't need to drive the hour
or so up there periodically.) =^) So I am sure even an irregular presence in
EM85 would be welcome! I suggest you make a note on your QRZ page that you
welcome sked requests... because those of us afflicted with the grid chasing
disease will ask other ops things like, 'Who did you work in XX99?' and then
try and scare up a sked.
As for gear, a pair of 817s is great... if you can't quite afford that, a
full duplex HT or a pair of HTs for FM will do. Have a look at my gear on my
special QRZ page and if you like the 'bag' idea, I can send you links to
where to buy that particular bag and really good shoulder straps. (Also the
power cable, battery, etc.) I got the bag and straps idea from N8HM who has
about perfected the art of the 'wearable sat station'.
https://www.qrz.com/db/N4UFO/P
Whatever you do, just make sure to have fun... that's the name of the game.
Sometimes we can get wrapped up and take the hunt too seriously. As has been
said before. if you aren't having fun, you aren't doing it right.? 73, Kevin
N4UFO
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 19:30:08 -0500
From: Stefan Wagener <wageners@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT Mailing List <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825
MHz (long)
Message-ID:
<CAKu8kHCGGgm7pkvTC+FGjTwdYkukvFyTDzpguxUJKE5m6zmjOg@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Well Mike,
Here is my log from the last pass. It shows 29 digipeats (~75% decoding
success at my station) for 8+ minutes. Each packet is barely 1 1/2 seconds!
That is a utilization of less then 5% assuming my math is correct.
In addition, asking for "blacklisting of licensed operators" is something I
certainly will not support and fortunately neither does the FCC.
73, Stefan, VE4NSA
..........................................
Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:46:17] >ARISS - International Space
Station
Fm KE7ZXE-4 To CQ Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=28 >[18:47:17]
N7UWX DE KE7ZXE from CN86 me
Fm VE6PW To U1PSWQ Via RS0ISS,ARISS <UI pid=F0 Len=32 >[18:47:59] `*Zvl
_-/` Hello via ISS _%
Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:48:18] >ARISS - International Space
Station
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:49:51]`p0Kl p[/>CQ: Via
ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:01]`p0Kl }[/>CQ: Via
ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:11]`p0Kl j[/>CQ: Via
ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:17] `yaHl _-/
Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:50:18] >ARISS - International Space
Station
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:24] `p0Kl O[/>CQ:
Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:28] `yaHl _-/
Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:35] :KD0KZE :599
Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:39] `yaHl _-/
Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm N7EKY-6 To T6PY2T Via RS0ISS,WIDE2-1 <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:50:49] 'u&Bl
_-/]CQ via ARISS,EN56jd,Paul=
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:55] :KD0KZE :599
Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:58] :N7EKY-6 :599
Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{63
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:51:01] `yaHl _-/
Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:11] `p0Kl w[/>CQ:
Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:21] `p0Kl"F[/>CQ:
Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm W8LR To S9SR2U Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:38] `p0Kl!%[/>CQ:
Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:52:07] `yaHl _-/
Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:10] :KD0KZE :599
Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62
Fm W0BSH-3 To S8SW6R Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=16 >[18:52:10] `v06l
_>/]"5v}=
Fm N7EKY-6 To T6PY2T Via RS0ISS,WIDE2-1 <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:52:16] 'u&Bl
_-/]CQ via ARISS,EN56jd,Paul=
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:27] :N7EKY-6 :599
Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{63
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:30] :N7EKY-6 :599
Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{64
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via TS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:53:13] :N7EKY-6# :599
Via QSS de W8LR Jerry{07
Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:53:15] :W0BSH-3 :599
Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{65
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 4:51 PM, Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Greg,
>
> You make a good point about the complications of dropped packets. I have
> some good recordings of voice stations getting a call back when as little
> as a single letter of their call was heard. It's amazing how well we can
> learn the voices of other ops when you're on regularly. This simply doesn't
> happen on packet.
>
> Another complication is that it is on simplex. That means on a 10 minute
> pass the maximum amount of time possible to digipeat is 5 minutes if the
> channel is fully saturated. Subtract out the ISS beacons we end up with
> less than 50% of the pass available for ISS to hear you.
>
> I'm not sure what the best solution is. You do bring up an interesting
> point about APRS-IS. Maybe it's possible to have them black list fixed
> beacon stations and remove the vanity aspect like you mentioned.
>
> 73,
>
> Mike Diehl
> AI6GS
>
> > On Apr 17, 2017, at 1:26 PM, Greg D <ko6th.greg@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> >
> > Gabriel Zeifman wrote:
> >> It's not complicated. However much it may be insisted ISS packet is not
> >> SO-50, it is practically the same thing (single channel operating on
> FM).
> > Actually, the ISS digi is worse.
> >
> > With voice communication, one can sometimes pick up the start or tail of
> > a call sign, as the astronaut demonstrated, and use that to filter a
> > second try. With digital, any bits that get corrupted result in no
> > reception at all.
> >
> > I hate to suggest this, and admit I am assuming a cause without
> > supporting evidence, but it might be necessary to remove the "vanity"
> > aspect of ISS digipeating, and take down or hide from general view the
> > reporting sites that support it. While a useful tool for
> > troubleshooting, I suspect the vanity aspect of seeing your call in a
> > public list day after day from an unattended station may be too strong a
> > draw for some, resulting in the clogged channel. The SatGates that
> > monitor for ISS and other APRS satellite traffic are still important
> > part of the infrastructure, so that the information can be datamined
> > from APRS-IS if you need it for troubleshooting. But the consolidated
> > lists of who has been seen digipeating through the ISS, I think, may be
> > contributing more trouble than they are worth.
> >
> > Greg KO6TH
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 18:22:34 -0700
From: Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Stefan Wagener <wageners@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT Mailing List <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825
MHz (long)
Message-ID: <CE70E55E-FA86-4CF7-82C0-494345869CB1@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Congrats Stefan, you still have no idea what ISS heard, only what it
digipeated. Please also prove me wrong that a simplex channel can support
more than 50% utilization. The fact only 5% of the pass had the ISS radio
transmitting can either prove nothing or support the fact that there is so
much QRM AT THE ISS that very few complete packets were heard and digipeated.
As far as black listing goes the FCC has no authority over what data a site
decides to exclude from showing. Sorry but you're reading and not
comprehending what I stated.
73,
Mike Diehl
AI6GS
> On Apr 17, 2017, at 5:30 PM, Stefan Wagener <wageners@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> Well Mike,
>
> Here is my log from the last pass. It shows 29 digipeats (~75% decoding
success at my station) for 8+ minutes. Each packet is barely 1 1/2 seconds!
That is a utilization of less then 5% assuming my math is correct.
>
> In addition, asking for "blacklisting of licensed operators" is something
I certainly will not support and fortunately neither does the FCC.
>
> 73, Stefan, VE4NSA
>
>
> ..........................................
>
> Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:46:17] >ARISS - International Space
Station
> Fm KE7ZXE-4 To CQ Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=28 >[18:47:17]
> N7UWX DE KE7ZXE from CN86 me
> Fm VE6PW To U1PSWQ Via RS0ISS,ARISS <UI pid=F0 Len=32 >[18:47:59] `*Zvl
_-/` Hello via ISS _%
> Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:48:18] >ARISS - International Space
Station
> Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:49:51]`p0Kl p[/>CQ:
Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
> Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:01]`p0Kl }[/>CQ:
Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
> Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:11]`p0Kl j[/>CQ:
Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
> Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:17] `yaHl _-/
Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
> Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:50:18] >ARISS - International Space
Station
> Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:24] `p0Kl O[/>CQ:
Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
> Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:28] `yaHl _-/
Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
> Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:35] :KD0KZE :599
Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62
> Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:39] `yaHl _-/
Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
> Fm N7EKY-6 To T6PY2T Via RS0ISS,WIDE2-1 <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:50:49]
'u&Bl _-/]CQ via ARISS,EN56jd,Paul=
> Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:55] :KD0KZE :599
Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62
> Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:58] :N7EKY-6 :599
Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{63
> Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:51:01] `yaHl _-/
Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
> Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:11] `p0Kl w[/>CQ:
Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
> Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:21] `p0Kl"F[/>CQ:
Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
> Fm W8LR To S9SR2U Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:38] `p0Kl!%[/>CQ:
Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
> Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:52:07] `yaHl _-/
Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
> Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:10] :KD0KZE :599
Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62
> Fm W0BSH-3 To S8SW6R Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=16 >[18:52:10] `v06l
_>/]"5v}=
> Fm N7EKY-6 To T6PY2T Via RS0ISS,WIDE2-1 <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:52:16]
'u&Bl _-/]CQ via ARISS,EN56jd,Paul=
> Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:27] :N7EKY-6 :599
Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{63
> Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:30] :N7EKY-6 :599
Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{64
> Fm W8LR To APK003 Via TS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:53:13] :N7EKY-6# :599
Via QSS de W8LR Jerry{07
> Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:53:15] :W0BSH-3 :599
Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{65
>
>
>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 4:51 PM, Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>> Greg,
>>
>> You make a good point about the complications of dropped packets. I have
some good recordings of voice stations getting a call back when as little as
a single letter of their call was heard. It's amazing how well we can learn
the voices of other ops when you're on regularly. This simply doesn't happen
on packet.
>>
>> Another complication is that it is on simplex. That means on a 10 minute
pass the maximum amount of time possible to digipeat is 5 minutes if the
channel is fully saturated. Subtract out the ISS beacons we end up with less
than 50% of the pass available for ISS to hear you.
>>
>> I'm not sure what the best solution is. You do bring up an interesting
point about APRS-IS. Maybe it's possible to have them black list fixed
beacon stations and remove the vanity aspect like you mentioned.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Mike Diehl
>> AI6GS
>>
>> > On Apr 17, 2017, at 1:26 PM, Greg D <ko6th.greg@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>> >
>> > Gabriel Zeifman wrote:
>> >> It's not complicated. However much it may be insisted ISS packet is not
>> >> SO-50, it is practically the same thing (single channel operating on
FM).
>> > Actually, the ISS digi is worse.
>> >
>> > With voice communication, one can sometimes pick up the start or tail of
>> > a call sign, as the astronaut demonstrated, and use that to filter a
>> > second try. With digital, any bits that get corrupted result in no
>> > reception at all.
>> >
>> > I hate to suggest this, and admit I am assuming a cause without
>> > supporting evidence, but it might be necessary to remove the "vanity"
>> > aspect of ISS digipeating, and take down or hide from general view the
>> > reporting sites that support it. While a useful tool for
>> > troubleshooting, I suspect the vanity aspect of seeing your call in a
>> > public list day after day from an unattended station may be too strong a
>> > draw for some, resulting in the clogged channel. The SatGates that
>> > monitor for ISS and other APRS satellite traffic are still important
>> > part of the infrastructure, so that the information can be datamined
>> > from APRS-IS if you need it for troubleshooting. But the consolidated
>> > lists of who has been seen digipeating through the ISS, I think, may be
>> > contributing more trouble than they are worth.
>> >
>> > Greg KO6TH
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
>> > Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 21:51:33 -0500
From: Stefan Wagener <wageners@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT Mailing List <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Thoughts on ISS packet switch back to 145.825
MHz (long)
Message-ID:
<CAKu8kHD-DZK1B6GnyZgZ39oDSxz4_OaYXfqtBQkAg1q_XUn5YA@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Thanks Mike,
I appreciate your open, thoughtful and constructive discussion. Since you
don't even seem to have read the log, and the timestamp stations are
digipeating, I leave you to your beliefs.
I will stay to the facts and exit this discussion. :-) :-) :-)
73, Stefan VE4NSA
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:22 PM, Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Congrats Stefan, you still have no idea what ISS heard, only what it
> digipeated. Please also prove me wrong that a simplex channel can support
> more than 50% utilization. The fact only 5% of the pass had the ISS radio
> transmitting can either prove nothing or support the fact that there is so
> much QRM AT THE ISS that very few complete packets were heard and
> digipeated.
>
> As far as black listing goes the FCC has no authority over what data a
> site decides to exclude from showing. Sorry but you're reading and not
> comprehending what I stated.
>
> 73,
>
> Mike Diehl
> AI6GS
>
> On Apr 17, 2017, at 5:30 PM, Stefan Wagener <wageners@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> Well Mike,
>
> Here is my log from the last pass. It shows 29 digipeats (~75% decoding
> success at my station) for 8+ minutes. Each packet is barely 1 1/2 seconds!
> That is a utilization of less then 5% assuming my math is correct.
>
> In addition, asking for "blacklisting of licensed operators" is something
> I certainly will not support and fortunately neither does the FCC.
>
> 73, Stefan, VE4NSA
>
>
> ..........................................
>
> Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:46:17] >ARISS - International
> Space Station
>
> Fm KE7ZXE-4 To CQ Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=28 >[18:47:17]
>
> N7UWX DE KE7ZXE from CN86 me
>
> Fm VE6PW To U1PSWQ Via RS0ISS,ARISS <UI pid=F0 Len=32 >[18:47:59] `*Zvl
> _-/` Hello via ISS _%
>
> Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:48:18] >ARISS - International
> Space Station
>
> Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:49:51]`p0Kl p[/>CQ:
> Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
>
> Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:01]`p0Kl }[/>CQ:
> Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
>
> Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:11]`p0Kl j[/>CQ:
> Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
>
> Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:17] `yaHl _-/
> Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
>
> Fm RS0ISS To CQ <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:50:18] >ARISS - International
> Space Station
>
> Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:50:24] `p0Kl O[/>CQ:
> Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
>
> Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:28] `yaHl _-/
> Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
>
> Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:35] :KD0KZE :599
> Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62
>
> Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:50:39] `yaHl _-/
> Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
>
> Fm N7EKY-6 To T6PY2T Via RS0ISS,WIDE2-1 <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:50:49]
> 'u&Bl _-/]CQ via ARISS,EN56jd,Paul=
>
> Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:55] :KD0KZE :599
> Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62
>
> Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:50:58] :N7EKY-6 :599
> Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{63
>
> Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:51:01] `yaHl _-/
> Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
>
> Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:11] `p0Kl w[/>CQ:
> Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
>
> Fm W8LR To S9SR2V Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:21] `p0Kl"F[/>CQ:
> Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
>
> Fm W8LR To S9SR2U Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=47 >[18:51:38] `p0Kl!%[/>CQ:
> Via ISS de W8LR Middletown Ohio=
>
> Fm KD0KZE To TUPX8Y Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=49 >[18:52:07] `yaHl _-/
> Greetings via ISS from Circle Pines MN
>
> Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:10] :KD0KZE :599
> Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{62
>
> Fm W0BSH-3 To S8SW6R Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=16 >[18:52:10] `v06l
> _>/]"5v}=
>
> Fm N7EKY-6 To T6PY2T Via RS0ISS,WIDE2-1 <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[18:52:16]
> 'u&Bl _-/]CQ via ARISS,EN56jd,Paul=
>
> Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:27] :N7EKY-6 :599
> Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{63
>
> Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:52:30] :N7EKY-6 :599
> Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{64
>
> Fm W8LR To APK003 Via TS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:53:13] :N7EKY-6# :599
> Via QSS de W8LR Jerry{07
>
> Fm W8LR To APK003 Via RS0ISS <UI pid=F0 Len=40 >[18:53:15] :W0BSH-3 :599
> Via ISS de W8LR Jerry{65
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 4:51 PM, Mike Diehl <diehl.mike.a@xxxxx.xxx>
> wrote:
>
>> Greg,
>>
>> You make a good point about the complications of dropped packets. I have
>> some good recordings of voice stations getting a call back when as little
>> as a single letter of their call was heard. It's amazing how well we can
>> learn the voices of other ops when you're on regularly. This simply doesn't
>> happen on packet.
>>
>> Another complication is that it is on simplex. That means on a 10 minute
>> pass the maximum amount of time possible to digipeat is 5 minutes if the
>> channel is fully saturated. Subtract out the ISS beacons we end up with
>> less than 50% of the pass available for ISS to hear you.
>>
>> I'm not sure what the best solution is. You do bring up an interesting
>> point about APRS-IS. Maybe it's possible to have them black list fixed
>> beacon stations and remove the vanity aspect like you mentioned.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Mike Diehl
>> AI6GS
>>
>> > On Apr 17, 2017, at 1:26 PM, Greg D <ko6th.greg@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>> >
>> > Gabriel Zeifman wrote:
>> >> It's not complicated. However much it may be insisted ISS packet is not
>> >> SO-50, it is practically the same thing (single channel operating on
>> FM).
>> > Actually, the ISS digi is worse.
>> >
>> > With voice communication, one can sometimes pick up the start or tail of
>> > a call sign, as the astronaut demonstrated, and use that to filter a
>> > second try. With digital, any bits that get corrupted result in no
>> > reception at all.
>> >
>> > I hate to suggest this, and admit I am assuming a cause without
>> > supporting evidence, but it might be necessary to remove the "vanity"
>> > aspect of ISS digipeating, and take down or hide from general view the
>> > reporting sites that support it. While a useful tool for
>> > troubleshooting, I suspect the vanity aspect of seeing your call in a
>> > public list day after day from an unattended station may be too strong a
>> > draw for some, resulting in the clogged channel. The SatGates that
>> > monitor for ISS and other APRS satellite traffic are still important
>> > part of the infrastructure, so that the information can be datamined
>> > from APRS-IS if you need it for troubleshooting. But the consolidated
>> > lists of who has been seen digipeating through the ISS, I think, may be
>> > contributing more trouble than they are worth.
>> >
>> > Greg KO6TH
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
>> of AMSAT-NA.
>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> > Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed
>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
>> AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>
>
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 12, Issue 106
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