| |
N5MDT > SYSOP 03.01.21 14:33l 158 Lines 10146 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : 13421_N5MDT
Read: GUEST
Subj: Re:Was: SYSOP: 2021 Off to a Better Start?
Path: IW8PGT<IZ3LSV<I3XTY<I0OJJ<LU4ECL<VK2RZ<W0ARP<AL0Y<N5MDT
Sent: 210103/1227Z 13421@N5MDT.#STX.TX.USA.NOAM BPQ6.0.20
Ok, I'll add my comments, only because my opinion such that it is, differs slightly. Not in the end result, but because of the reasons.
My comments are within, and primarily for BPQ systems but by exchanging terminology can most likely be adapted to other systems as well....
Original Message
> R:210102/2031Z 7364@KF5JRV.#NWAR.AR.USA.NA BPQ6.0.20
> R:210102/2030Z 7752@N7HPX.#BOI.ID.USA.NOAM BPQ6.0.19
> R:210102/2030Z 17698@W9GM.#SWWI.WI.USA.NOAM BPQ6.0.20
> R:210102/2030Z @:VE2PKT.#TRV.QC.CAN.NOAM #:37659 $:58002_N1URO
> R:210102/2030Z @:N1URO.#CCT.CT.USA.NOAM #:58002 [Unionville] $:58002_N1URO
>
> Wow I'm amazed at how many "sysops" failed to even study the paths!
> The issue is NOT at all with CX2SA but with those handling forwarding
> beyond his bbs. Let me try and give a lesson:
>
I do agree completely. The fault always lies with an individual BBS decision to forward or not to forward. As a BBS sysop I have no control over what is forwarded to me other than coordination with my forwarding partners (the preferred method) or by rejecting messages.
> First listed message by N2NOV in his mail - an english bulletin.
> To: aprs@ww
> Subject: iGATE-APRS Network Servers
> X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
> X-JNOS-User-Port: Circuit (DATXR:K5DAT-5 K5DAT-1) -> Sending message
>
> R:210102/0239Z 50130@K5DAT.#CWI.WI.USA.NOAM LinBPQ6.0.21
> R:210102/0238Z 14350@AL0Y.#NNJ.NJ.USA.NOAM LinBPQ6.0.21
> R:210102/0238Z 4080@KD8FMR.#SRQ.FL.USA.NOAM LinBPQ6.0.20
> R:210102/0238Z 5012@PY2BIL.SP.BRA.SOAM LinBPQ6.0.21
> R:210102/0238Z 3031@TI0RC.SJO.CRI.CEAM LinBPQ6.0.21
> R:210102/0236Z @:CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM #:46650 [Salto] FBB7.00e $:46650-CX2SA
>
> This looks like it went from South America to Central America, BACK* to
> South America then up to Florida USA. Most likely all 100¢nternet fed
> as well. Except for the loop back down to South America this could be OK
> as long as USA also forwarded to other english speaking areas such as
> the UK for example.
>
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this message or the path it took. Messages addressed to @WW are sent to ALL forwarding partners on a BBS (who have coordinated with their forwarding partners that they do want worldwide bulletins.) Therefore multiple messages will be sent out by each BBS encountered, making there be many copies of the message propagating around the world using many different paths. There is no *wrong* path for a WW bulletin. It can only be wrong if it was sent to someone that does not want WW bulletins.
The next two I will have a single (lengthy) comment about since they both contain the same problem. The problem is not in how it is addressed. The problem is in the lack of coordination with forwarding partners.
> Second such bulletin - french
> To: aprs@franca
> Subject: Serveurs iGATE-APRS Network
> X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
> X-JNOS-User-Port: Circuit (BBSCGR:VE3CGR-2 VE3CGR-2) -> Sending message
>
> R:210102/0305z @:VE3CGR.#SCON.ON.CAN.NOAM [Aurora] jnos2.0m.5F $:46653-CX2SA Z:L4G1C5
> R:210102/0302Z @:VE2PKT.#TRV.QC.CAN.NOAM #:37605 $:46653-CX2SA
> R:210102/0247Z @:VK4TUB.#NQ.QLD.AUS.OC #:28762 [Townsville] $:46653-CX2SA
> R:210102/0238Z @:VK7AX.#ULV.TAS.AUS.OC #:54473 [Ulverstone] $:46653-CX2SA
> R:210102/0236Z @:CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM #:46653 [Salto] FBB7.00e $:46653-CX2SA
>
> Here CX2SA may have made an error sending first to Australia prior to
> relaying it up to french speaking Canada. It should have gone to Haiti first
> which is a french speaking nation but be that as it may... anyway the error
> again is defined by the path.
>
> Lastly we have - spanish
> To: aprs@latnet
> Subject: Servidores iGATE-APRS Network
> X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
> X-JNOS-User-Port: Circuit (BBSCGR:VE3CGR-2 VE3CGR-2) -> Sending message
>
> R:210102/0318z @:VE3CGR.#SCON.ON.CAN.NOAM [Aurora] jnos2.0m.5F $:46651-CX2SA Z:L4G1C5
> R:210102/0318Z 5357@VE3BWM.#WNSOR.ON.CAN.NOAM LinBPQ6.0.20
> R:210102/0239Z 952@LU9DCE.TOR.BA.ARG.SOAM LinBPQ6.0.21
> R:210102/0238Z @:EA2RCF.EAVI.ESP.EU #:7157 [Vitoria] $:46651-CX2SA
> R:210102/0236Z @:CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM #:46651 [Salto] FBB7.00e $:46651-CX2SA
>
> Here its clear that it went from South America to Spain, BACK* to South
> America and _then_ to Canada? eh? This is the worst offender of them all
> yet! Why? Answer: mosst sysops who forward on the internet do NOT care what
> junk they fill up where. It's like driving along the road eating a meal
> while you drive and just toss the litter out the window wherever.
>
Both of the above messages (addressed to @franca and @latnet, respectively) are addressed to invalid hierarchical addresses. Neither latnet or franca match a continent or a country. Bulletins should be addressed using a full and accurate hierarchical address if you expect it to be delivered properly. If a BBS receives one of these it should simply not forward the message. It is like retelling a lie when you know it is a lie. But there is an exception to every rule, yes?
If a BBS receives a message without a valid HA then it handles the message as if it were a distribution list. A single BBS can create a distribution list simply by selecting a *unique* name, then placing that name in the AT field for all forwarding partners you want to receive that message. When a BBS receives the message it will correctly stop at that BBS, not being forwarded. The distribution list has been fulfilled.
A much larger distribution list can be created. I'll use MARS for now, which should work until we have our first packet station actually on Mars. There are MARS operators all over the USA. But, it would be impossible for one BBS to forward to every MARS station. So, you address your message to @MARS and it is forwarded to all of your forwarding partners with MARS in the AT field. When each of the BBSs receives that message it then forwards the message to all of its forwarding partners that have MARS in the AT field of *their* BBS, and so on, much like a telephone tree. Eventually all MARS members would, or should receive the message, and it would not be sent to anyone that is not a MARS member. If it does accidentally get sent to a non-member then the BBS sysop should just let the message die on their BBS, then contact the BBS that forwarded to them and ask to be removed from the MARS list. There are plenty others out there being forwarded.
In the case of @latnet and @franca it completely relies on each and every BBS that receives the message to forward the message only to Latin speaking BBS and French speaking BBS respectively, but it requires that each and every BBS that *expects* to receive this message properly configures their BBS to forward it only to the proper countries. If a BBS is not a partner with a Latin or French speaking country it should refrain from forwarding the message.
This is where the biggest problem lies. Many new sysops have the misunderstanding that they MUST forward each and every message received, which could not be farther from the truth. If you do not have a proper route to the destination then you must let the message die. As soon as they see a message that did not forward on their BBS many sysops will go into panic mode and quickly add the destination in the forwarding record of every forwarding partner they have, and usually in the AT field. I have see a BBS with up to 50 entries in the AT field of every forwarding partner. This makes for a poorly run BBS and messages being sent to places that most likely do not want the message. And it comes from the mistaken belief that they have a responsibility to forward every message, somewhere...
All of the above is applicable to bulletins. Personals are different. If you receive a personal and do not have a route to the destination then you need to find one, and tell the previous BBS that you cannot send to that destination so that he can fix his own configuration.
Coordination is the key. You cannot start up a BBS without a plan, and you cannot operate one without coordinating with your neighbors.
Learn Hierarchical Addressing, and pass on the knowledge: https://www.tapr.org/pdf/DCC1995-Recommendation4HAP-WO5H-WD5IVDAA4RE-W0RLI.pdf
(It's a good place to start although not necessarily complete.)
> N2NOV got most of the path issue with is summary _however_ for those who
> DO KNOW BETTER... filter out the areas you don't need to handle and when mails
> get rejected or lost perhaps your lazy or unknowing partner will ask for help.
>
> If you receive @NESBBS please do 2 things:
> 1. Inform the BBS who sent it to you to please stop UNLESS you are in
> the region that EastNet services since this is our network group.
> Its not that we don't wish you to read the bulletins.. you're quite
> welcome to... it's just that they should go NO FURTHER than our region.
> 2. Please add @NESBBS to your reject file.
>
> The above can hold true for #any# area that is being sent to you that you
> either don't want or shouldn't be getting. In JNOS you may do so in the
> rewrite file by calling
> *@<group> refuse
> and simply by not adding the group to your partners
>
> In xFBB
> In your forward files groups you wish NOT to send to a partner you first
> call it with a bang (!) and then G <group>. An example of such would be
> !G LATNET
> !G FRANCA
> G USBBS
> G WW
> So anything you may receive to LATNET will NOT get sent out to that
> partner, same with FRANCA.
>
> Other softwares please check your documentations.
>
You should not be required to specifically reject anything. If you do not have a route for the message as addressed your BBS should not forward it. Simple as that. If you receive unwanted messages TALK to the BBS that forwarded the message to you so that he can adjust his forwarding record to you, or fix his configuration error, and perhaps even learn something new.
> 73
> ---
> SendBBS v1.1 by N1URO for LinFBB
>
When you mentor someone always help them understand WHY the configuration is as it is, and not just do it for them. It takes a long time to understand forwarding and sometimes the different methods of forwarding personals, flood bulls, and directed bulls.
73,
Mark, N5MDT
Read previous mail | Read next mail
| |
